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Mary/PA - Good evening
Mary/PA - JN, are you a RRT?
JN - Hi I am not sure how this works
JN - I used to be
Mary/PA - It seems like you are getting it figured out
JN - Now I teach first grade
JN - Yep!
Mary/PA - Why are you no longer teaching RR?
JN - Are you?
Mary/PA - I love first grade!
JN - I was an aide working with RR
Mary/PA - I taught it for 23 years before being trained in RR
JN - I wanted my own class!
Mary/PA - I'd love to be back in a first grade classroom again some day
LKO - What exactly is reading recovery?
JN - Wow...are you a certified rdg. specialist?
Mary/PA - How could you have been an aide working with RR?
JN - I am a certified teacher -but didn't need to be...
Mary/PA - Reading Recovery requires a full year of special intensive training and this training continues as long as you teach RR
JN - Our reading specialist oversaw the program
Mary/PA - You have to be certified to even be trained to teach RR
JN - Oh yes,,,we followed the program under a different name (Rdg Success) It was pretty much the same
Mary/PA - JN, then it was something else that you were teaching, it wasn't Reading Recovery
JN - OUr dist. did it that way to avoid having to have everyone be trained
JN - I am hoping to start something similar in my new district...
JN - Our superintendent thinks it is a band-aid solution so he won't buy into it unless we can do it w/o costing anything...like with volunteers
Mary/PA - Reading Recovery is explained some what here - http://www.readingrecovery.org/sections/reading/index.asp
JN - I am familiar with Reading Recovery because we used the same framework from what I was told
Mary/PA - Good luck to your super in finding a cheap way to help the lowest kids. There are no cheap fixes
JN - I really don't think using volunteers will work very well
Mary/PA - Good evening, juls
Mary/PA - juls, are you a RRT?
JN - He has been a real pain...we have most all of the leveled books so I think I could get something up and running
JN - I am willing to take the time because
Mary/PA - JN, you are right about it not working
JN - I feel it is really needed
JN - we need some sort of intervention to help the struggling readers
Mary/PA - The hardest to teach children need the highest trained teachers. These are the hardest to teach, in order to help them you really have to know how to detect what is holding them back and what to do about it.
Mary/PA - Good evening teach23 and LKO
teach23 - Hello
Mary/PA - Are the two of you RRT's?
teach23 - No, but I find this topic very interesting
teach23 - What is REading REcovery?
JN - What we did in our other district was highly successful and we did get training.
LKO - I teach 4th grade with several ESL students as well. I'm not familiar with reading recovery.
JN - While we may not have been reading specialists we were trained under one who was always involved in overseeing what we were doing
Mary/PA - Reading Recovery is an early intervention program designed by Marie M. Clay of New Zealand to serve children in first grade who are having difficulty learning to read and write.
JN - we were able to help a large amount of the first grade students who were slow starters
Mary/PA - The goal of Reading Recovery is to produce independent readers whose reading and writing improve whenever they read and write by means of a self-extending system.
teach23 - Exactly how does This program work?
Mary/PA - This is done through accelerated learning.
Mary/PA - Children are expected to make faster than average progress so that they can catch up with other children in their class.
teach23 - Could you give me an example of how this works?
Mary/PA - Reading Recovery provides one-to-one tutoring, five days per week, 30 minutes a day plus a few additional minutes to practice fluent writing of selected high frequency words and choose books for reading at home.
JULS - Sorry my comp is acting up
JN - I think many of the first grade students just need that extra support with someone individually
Mary/PA - Reading Recovery is supplemental to classroom instruction and lasts an average of 12-20 weeks.
LKO - I teach 4th grade with several ESL students as well. I'm not familiar with reading recovery.
Mary/PA - Each child's daily program is discontinued when he/she displays solid evidence of having developed a self-extending system through using a variety of unprompted strategies to read increasingly difficult text and to independently write their own messages.
JULS - has any one been able to access the letter of support with the signatures of 177 researchers?
teach23 - What do you mean by self-extending system?
LKO - Sounds wonderful. Our building had a class reduction teacher. She pulled the lowest readers from each room for 90 minutes a day of reading instruction and all my students who were in her group made two years gains.
didi - Hi Mary, hi everyone
Mary/PA - Reading Recovery utilizes and builds upon genuine conversations between teacher and child as the primary basis of instruction. This teacher-child dialogue has been found to be an effective method for teachers to help students learn to deal with complex tasks such as reading.
Mary/PA - Hi didi
Mary/PA - The Reading Recovery lesson follows a strict routine of components containing activities that are molded to meet the individual needs of each child based upon a daily analysis of student progress by the teacher.
teach23 - What makes up a child daily program during this time period?
didi - Two weeks holiday made this mornings lesson a real tedium. Talk about go slow on the reading
Mary/PA - Before the lesson begins, the student practices fluent writing of one High Frequency word on the chalk/dry erase board.
JULS - didi are you doing carryover children during the summer?
Mary/PA - The 30-minute lesson then begins with its seven distinct parts: 1. The child rereads several familiar books.
didi - Ho this id Term 3 here I'm in Australia its our lunch time now
Mary/PA - 2. The child rereads a book introduced in the prior lesson while the teacher does a running record (observes and records the child's reading behaviors). The teacher chooses 2-3 powerful teaching points.
JULS - How is the discontinuing rate in aus?
Mary/PA - 3. The child is guided toward discovering how words work through developing letter knowledge and word structure awareness and familiarity.
teach23 - ok
teach23 - ok
Mary/PA - 4. The child writes a story with the teacher providing opportunities for him/her to hear and record sounds in words.
Mary/PA - 5. The child rearranges his/her story from a cut-up sentence strip provided by the teacher.
Mary/PA - 6. The teacher introduces a new book carefully selected for its learning opportunities.
JN - LKO-did your reading teacher work with small groups?
Mary/PA - 7. The child reads the new book orchestrating his/her current problem-solving strategies.
JN - We found that ours had so many kids to work with in our K-8 building
didi - In our school poor this year as I'm on my own so I will get to 8 kids out of the 100 in Year 2> Of the 4 I have now 2 will probably be referred 1 will go of at 16 I think but the other on is only L11 at Week 16 so I don't know if I'll get him of OK
teach23 - ok...I see.....and through this program a child will hopefully increase there reading ability?
Mary/PA - There, that's a simplified explanation of the Reading Recovery lesson.
teach23 - Thanks
didi - In our school poor this year as I'm on my own so I will get to 8 kids out of the 100 in Year 2> Of the 4 I have now 2 will probably be referred 1 will go of at 16 I think but the other on is only L11 at Week 16 so I don't know if I'll get him of OKry
Mary/PA - Yes, and they do
JULS - Wow didi why were you left on your own with those numbers to serve
didi - Because of the stupid way they allocate RR teachers here
teach23 - Does everyone here feel that literacy is a major problem in our schools?
JULS - How are they allocated?
Mary/PA - didi, but he's still far better off than he was 16 weeks ago, right?
didi - By the test results of the previous year 2 children.
JULS - teach 23 I think professional Dev in literacy is the biggest problem in our schools
JULS - So didi your saying you get punished for doing a good job!!!
LRStan - do you know of any websites that talk about RR??
teach23 - Juls....care to explain?
didi - ie last years results affect how many teachers for this year
JULS - so higher results fewer teachers of RR?
Mary/PA - JULS, I think you are correct about the lack of adequate Prof. Dev. in many places.
teach23 - I see...that can create a problem....
Mary/PA - http://www.readingrecovery.org/sections/reading/index.asp
didi - Yes they are better of and I'm keeping the other two on as I was absent so much at the beginning of their programmes that I feel they deserve a bit of a good run now.
didi - That's right Juls
teach23 - Do you find that there are a lot of students who need RR?
JULS - Thanks Mary but Richard Allington deserves the credit for my thinking
Mary/PA - http://connwww.iu5.org/cvelem/RR/index.html
JULS - Didi haven't they realized that the higher scoring is due to RR ?
Mary/PA - JULS yes "NO QUICK FIXES" That's his, isn't it?
LRStan - ok thanks!!
didi - RR have but it's the state gov education department who are the problem
JULS - Yes Mary and Schools that work and Classrooms that work.
JULS - Yes Mary and Schools that work and Classrooms that work.
didi - Problem is we had a big wig in Education who was anti RR and made life difficult
Jodi - The website on reading recovery is excellent, thanks for sharing it Mary/PA!
JULS - I bought all my administrators Schools and all my grade one teachers Classrooms!!!!!
teach23 - DO THOSE OF YOU THAT ARE RRT's ...DO MANY STUDENTS IN YOUR DISTRICTS NEED THIS SERVICE?
Mary/PA - JULS, does your school use the 4 Blocks Framework?
JULS - Didi if you've ever heard Marie speak she says these are things to live through unfortunately the pressure falls on us to remain strong and VOTE
Mary/PA - teach23, in my school 30 some % of all first graders need it
didi - Hopefully I'll get to hear Marie Clay in Sept at a conference
JULS - Mary do you really want to go there I don't I don't think my Blood pressure could stand it
Mary/PA - It varies from place to place, but in the area around my school, there is a very big need
JN - Our school uses 4 blocks in first grade and we still had several who needed support individually (lots of our ESL students)
teach23 - THANK YOU EVERYONE....YOU've ALL BEEN VERY HELPFUL...GOODLUCK...
JULS - Some of our schools range from 5% to 60% needs
Mary/PA - OOPS!! JULS, I don't want you to pop a cork!
didi - There's the lunch bell see you next time happy holidays all of you.
Mary/PA - By didi
JULS - Now mary a popped cork might be just the thing!!!!
JULS - Bye didi
Mary/PA - JULS, it's a slow and long battle, but it can be done.
teach23 - B YE
Mary/PA - Someone has to fight it, it might as well be you
Mary/PA - bye teach
JULS - The politics is the hardest thing to get your head around but when its a good fight for children teachers can be junk yard dogs
Mary/PA - I spent 23 years searching for a way to help the lowest first grade children. Reading Recovery training opened my eyes to how to go about it. I'm so grateful for having the opportunity to be trained in it.
juls - I know the feeling Mary I can name each of the students I didn't get to read before my training
Mary/PA - Then I started to learn about the 4 Blocks. It too is on the right track for helping these kids. We are finally on the right track.
juls - They stay with me. I've seen some of their names in the in the courts and i curse my lack of knowledge
Mary/PA - juls, I know what you are going through!
juls - Mary what is your position and where?
Mary/PA - I am now teaching Reading Recovery all day
Mary/PA - I taught Kindergarten and RR for 8 years before that
Mary/PA - First grade for 23 years before that
juls - Wow how was your k class?
Mary/PA - I'm in NW PA
juls - We;re pretty close I'm in South eastern ontario
Mary/PA - Great! I was so much more able to help the Kinder Kids get on the right track because of you understanding of Reading and Writing because of Reading Recovery
Mary/PA - I rarely had one of you kinder kids as Reading Recovery kids
juls - I'm teaching k this year due to cut backs my class avg was PM benchmark 9!!!!!!
Mary/PA - juls, yes, we are close
Mary/PA - That's great!
juls - Its the training not me
Mary/PA - What was your teaching assignment before kindergarten?
juls - RRTL
Mary/PA - Were you the TL for several districts?
Mary/PA - We need another TL down here.
juls - I miss it. I miss the challenge and the problem solving with colleagues. Our district lost 14 mill. over 2 yrs thus the cuts
Mary/PA - We have too many RRT's for one TL
juls - I was a tl for 16 districts
Mary/PA - How close are you to Lake Erie?
Mary/PA - Maybe you could hop a boat and come across to help us out
Mary/PA - juls, are you still here?
Mary/PA - Oh! there you are
JULS - Sorry Mary it keeps freezing up on me
JULS - Hopping a boat is no problem I ve worked in the states before.
JULS - How many rrt's
Mary/PA - We really do need another TL in my area
Mary/PA - Oh dear, I don't know the number, but we do fill a very large room when we are all together
Mary/PA - Let me think
JULS - What are they paying and for how long
Mary/PA - I would guess that there are around 50 RRT's
JULS - Oh my that is too many how far reaching is the site miles wise
Mary/PA - I have no idea about the pay or the length. I could put you in touch with our TL, she'd be able to answer these questions better
Mary/PA - She does cover a very large area
JULS - I'm seriously thinking about it
Mary/PA - 4 counties
Mary/PA - and most of it rural
Mary/PA - e-mail me at - mary@teachers.net
JULS - I have been off for a year and the requirements of rr in Can. are slightly different.
Mary/PA - Where did you get your TL training?
Mary/PA - Our's are trained at Ohio U
JULS - Canadian Institute of RR at Toronto UNiv.
Mary/PA - I would think that something could be worked out
Mary/PA - Our TL teaches in the City of Erie
JULS - its tempting the cut backs are so bad here. I teach gym, music, art and french to my students there are no specials
Mary/PA - Are you familiar with Erie?
Mary/PA - or the area?
JULS - Not really but I do know the Northern NY and Michigan area
JULS - are you there or did I freeze again
Mary/PA - When you worked in the States, where did you work?
Mary/PA - I'm here, just thinking
JULS - Michigan
JULS - I'm listed in last years directory but alas not this year
Mary/PA - I don't know how any of this could work out. It's such a shame that those cuts had to happen. Why education has to suffer like this is hard for me to understand
JULS - Its not education that suffers its the children
Mary/PA - Yes, your are right
Mary/PA - That's really what I meant
JULS - I've checked the RRCNA job board I don't remember seeing one from PA
Mary/PA - The children with the greatest needs are the ones who are hurt the worse
Mary/PA - I think they are trying to get someone from within the system, but I'm not sure
JULS - Well if they are a foreigner is not going to be high on their list LOL
Mary/PA - There have been cuts around here as well. Things are tough all over.
Mary/PA - Our RR program relies on Federal money
Mary/PA - There was a battle
JULS - What kind of battle
Mary/PA - I haven't heard the outcome yet, but I think RR is good for I bit longer
Mary/PA - Politics
Mary/PA - A group of "Phonics only" people waged an assault on Reading Recovery.
JULS - When I think of my first disc student . She invited me to her graduation . It is NOT TOO expensive
Mary/PA - There were hearings at the National level. I think RR came out looking good.
JULS - Are there still Fonics only around?
Mary/PA - That's right!! I don't know where they get their ideas
JULS - Have you read resisting the reading mandate GET IT
Mary/PA - It's being pushed big time in the States now
Mary/PA - Who publishes it?
JULS - It s being pushed because the publishing companies are making big bucks
Mary/PA - It's all politics of some sort or another
JULS - IF you read Resisting she makes a case for why all the publishing co. are supporting parts of research out of context
Mary/PA - Who wrote Resisting and who publishes it?
JULS - Are we scaring people out of the rooM?
JULS - Oh my its in my car. I've been reading it while I wait for my husband when I pick him up. Sorry im lousey with names
Mary/PA - Well, the meeting time was over at 10 EST
Mary/PA - I'll try to find it
JULS - I'm 3 chapters in and I'm blown away by her perspective. It gives you great ammunition when fighting the powers for $$$
Mary/PA - Phonics worksheets can be made and sold, but worksheets that really help kids learn to read and write can't be made and sold, so there is no money is pushing for programs that really help kids
JULS - What really helps kids are teachers who have a good sound understanding of how children read and write and how to get them there!!!!!!!!
Mary/PA - "Resisting The Reading Mandate" - is this the exact title?
Mary/PA - That is so true!!
JULS - Yes if you can let me go to my car Ill be right back
Mary/PA - Sure, I can wait
Mary/PA - "Resisting Reading Mandates: How to Triumph with the Truth" by Elaine M. Garan - is this it? - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0325004463/teachersnet
JULS - Resisting Reading Mandate: How to triumph with the truth. Elaine M. Garan
JULS - YeaH
Mary/PA - I found itThanks
JULS - So you are e faster than i am in real timeLOL
Mary/PA - I'll get it, it looks good
JULS - It is
JULS - any book that shifts my paradigm and makes me question is worth it
Mary/PA - The Internet is a marvelous source
JULS - Hi jan
Mary/PA - Does she tell us how to fight the fight?
JULS - Yesssssssssssssssssssssss
jan - hi-can't stay on ...phone rang!
JULS - but not limited to RR
Mary/PA - How do those who know what kids need take control?
JULS - We have the voices what we don't have is the$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
JULS - MOney talks
Mary/PA - That's good that it isn't limited to RR. Good classroom teaching is the first most important thing to get going
JULS - Are we going to have the chick and egg conversation?
Mary/PA - You and I know ... we've seen it with our own eyes, when kids get good first teaching, the need for RR is lessened
Mary/PA - No, I don't think so
Mary/PA - There are still going to be kids that need RR, but fewer than do now if all kids can get a good start
JULS - Its lessened but never eliminated
JULS - Some night when I am not worried about my BP youll have to shift me with regards to 4 blocks
Mary/PA - Well, I have to get going, please do e-mail me at mary@teachers.net I'd like very much to keep in contact with you
Mary/PA - What's BP?
JULS - I have enjoyed this so much I will e you
JULS - Bp Blood pressure its a long story
Mary/PA - When I first started learning about 4 Blocks I saw that is was like a classroom version of RR. It teaches the same strategies and helps the kids see how reading and writing work and work together.
Mary/PA - Oh, BP - I see
Mary/PA - Classrooms that Work was the starting point for 4 Blocks
JULS - I really have problem with the idea of full class guided reading
Mary/PA - JULS, it's not really guided reading the way you think of it. It's a was to teach comprehension skills.
Mary/PA - Way, not was
JULS - mary ill make you a deal i'll re read 4 blocks with an open mind and you read resisting and we'll talk some more
Mary/PA - my fingers go their own way
Mary/PA - It's a deal
JULS - Don't worry
JULS - I have to go to so TTFN(tata for now)
Mary/PA - Well I really do have to go. thanks for comeing this evening
Mary/PA - Good night
JULS - g'night
