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Mary K&1 - Welcome to Teachers.Net's Monthly Reading Recovery Meeting. This evening we will be discussing "Following The Child". What does it mean? How is it done? What are some examples of "Following the Child"?
Mary K&1 - barb, what is your understanding of following the child? Does it start with good observation?
barb - absolutely, you have to really know your child to follow him//her
missy - It means teaching what the child needs at that moment, not having a preconceived notion of what you want to teach 'next'
Mary K&1 - Do you find it difficult to keep the session moving, observe the child and make good decisions about what to do on the spot?
missy - Knowing what kinds of prompts, msv, to use without spending some time reflecting on past work is difficult to do 'on the run'
darthy/ALABAMA - Following the child also means learning his "prior" knowledge
Mary K&1 - missy, I agree - it's hard to think fast enough
Robin - Making good decisions is the hard part. You have to analyze what scaffolding the child needs right then.
darthy/ALABAMA - Robin, the scaffolding part is what regular classroom teachers do not understand in my school
Mary K&1 - Does anyone have any advice to offer about how to do this well?
darthy/ALABAMA - Mary, the RR teacher MUST be knowledgeable and flexible
Mary K&1 - How much time do you spend each day analyzing the lesson and planning for the next?
missy - Good analysis of Running Records of past days gives you an idea of the common mistakes that child usually makes and gives you a direction to think about
darthy/ALABAMA - the easiest way to begin following the child, is learning special interest during roaming
Mary K&1 - Does having time between lessons help in preparing your mind for the next child? Does anyone have a schedule that allows for this?
darthy/ALABAMA - We have 3 RR teachers, and we usually stay at school until after 4 every day to work on notebooks
barb - I spend 20-30 minutes per day planning for each child and reviewing their past running records, etc.
Mary K&1 - darthy, how many classroom do you each service?
darthy/ALABAMA - I love having time between students, or between the 1st two, but we are having the new assist. principal do our schedule this year - don't know about that because she knows nothing about Title I or RR
missy - I was able to do two children in the morning and two in the afternoon (Title groups in between) and it was great to have a little time to reflect on the lessons
Doug - barb- is all of this time on book choice?
darthy/ALABAMA - Mary, we are not assigned particular classrooms in my school, others in our district do that - we just serve the students with the greatest need from all 6 rooms
Mary K&1 - Doug, want to share with us your idea/s of what is meant by Following the Child?
Patti - Darthy, do you use the Observation Survey to determine those students with the greatest need?
darthy/ALABAMA - No, Doug, book choice is only one of the many parts of the planning time
Mary K&1 - darthy, that's what I meant - How many first grades are in your building
Doug - Patti- this is where stanines come into play. We add the stanines from the OS and determine lowest score
Mary K&1 - We have 3 right now
darthy/ALABAMA - Yes, Patti, the OS and the rank order list from our K, and 1st teachers are of equal value
darthy/ALABAMA - In my system we do not consider stanines at all - we do consider comments about each child's testing behaviors
kath - We don't use stanines, either.
missy - Darthy, that is interesting, we do not consider testing behaviors, but do use the stanines and rank order
darthy/ALABAMA - Mary , I strongly believe in the concept of "FOllow the CHild" but we have so much trouble explaining that to our classroom teachers - they expect miracles
Carolyn - Regarding following the child---I have a child who doesn't like to write---and I feel that if I 'followed" him, we'd never get writing in
missy - Darthy, Our classroom teachers use a basel reading system and can't understand why rr teachers do not follow the same scope and sequence of skills.
Doug - Carolyn- are you sticking to one thing?
darthy/ALABAMA - Yes, missy, yes - we have that to deal with too
Patti - Missy, do they have access to Guided Reading by Fountas and Pinnell?
barb - Our first grade teachers do OS 4,5,and 6 in the summer. Then we take the kids with the lowest scores and retest them and then rank them.
Mary K&1 - missy, this is where they need to understand Following the Child
darthy/ALABAMA - You have to just stay firm in the RR program with a reluctant writer and it will improve as they gain a written vocabulary of known words
Doug - I'll take a risk, perhaps follow the child means to observe the child closely and to make instructional decisions based on those observations
kath - I agree. Observe and take your cue from the student.
Mary K&1 - OK, missy said that the teachers in her building don't understand why she doesn't follow the regular scope and sequence - This is where we have to be able to explain to them about how we follow each child, how can we explain this to them?
darthy/ALABAMA - You must learn a lot about that child during Roaming, and meet his/her needs within the guidelines of the RR program
barb - Doug, I agree with you. I don't think of following the child and following their interests as much as following their needs.
Doug - a scope and sequence is a political document usually a product of teachers and administrators. RR teachers base individual decisions based on what they see not what people tell them to teach next.
kath - I like to say that I'm not teaching the curriculum, I'm teaching the child.
Mary K&1 - Doug, that's a very good answer! Can we expand upon it? This will help all of us when we are asked why we don't follow a specific plan - "scope and sequence"
darthy/ALABAMA - barb & Doug, it is such a fine line - we need to know their interests in making the RAK books, and in book selection, but we also "stretch" their prior knowledge as we meet their needs
mugsyboo - I think that is wonderful, Doug. We have to make these decision through running records and teacher observation
darthy/ALABAMA - WOW, DOug, kath, great responses
missy - We tell them that the end product is the same - successful readers - and that there are many roads to the same destination
robin - Mary- We build on what the child already knows, This doesn't follow the curriculum. We use the child's strenghts to move him/her ahead/
Mary K&1 - When we link known to learn new, it's different for each child - we have to know the child well in order to help them make links that will help them remember
Doug - Clay talks about this issue. She proposes that kids use what they are exposed to the least. If a kid was in a meaning based class their running records show a lot of visual strategies and visa versa. She goes on to say that this needs further research.
Mary K&1 - Clay says something like - these programs (published "canned" scope and sequence type reading series) may be a little better than nothing, but usually do little for the child who is not making satisfactory progress
kath - Does anyone teach more than 4 students in a round? I'm talking one-on-one.
Carolyn - yes, I teach all day RR
darthy/ALABAMA - kath, before we had 3 RR teachers, I would sometimes take 5 students - if I wasn't serving any ESL in my school
missy - I managed 5 in each round
darthy/ALABAMA - Carolyn, I would love to teach RR all day, but I do have literacy groups, that's close
Carolyn - I've taught half and half: RR and literacy groups. I wouldn't trade all day RR at all, now that I've been doing it for year and half
kath - Carolyn, how do you like doing RR all day? I've asked my principal to consider it for me this fall.
Carolyn - I told my coordinator that they are getting "more for the money" if they would allow me to do all day RR. They really see the benefit of RR
kath - I'll be the only RR teacher this year and I'm willing to trade my small groups for more RR kids.
darthy/ALABAMA - An important part of "following the child" is having time for paperwork, planning - how could you do this and teach RR all day
darthy/ALABAMA - Carolyn, our problem is not our coordinator, who took RR classes with us in the 1st training program in Alabama, it's the principal and assist. principal who are the stumbling blocks
Mary K&1 - darthy, good question - I have no in school time for planning and thinking with my Kingergarten/RR schedule - I've been wondering what would be a better way to do RR
Carolyn - I've heard that the more you have in a group the more "watered down" the instruction necessarily has to be. So this one on one instruction is the most powerful
darthy/ALABAMA - Mary, my sister has taught in a shared classroom setting with 1st, and now 2nd - there is no good way to do it - planning is not valued
Mary K&1 - But there's no way that I could do 8 kids a day - there just isn't enough time - we are not fully implemented so I couldn't do just 7
Carolyn - That's true about full implementation. There is another RR in our building and she does half and half
Mary K&1 - Carolyn, how many RR kids do you see each day?
Carolyn - Eight is the load
Mary K&1 - Carolyn, Do you ever get confused? Do have them one right after the other?
Carolyn - Sometimes I have them one after another but I have notes on lesson record. For some reason I find it easier to keep up with an RR child than I did a literacy child.
missy - Is anyone doing the rr type literacy group teaching and how do you feel about it?
darthy/ALABAMA - missy, I loved my lit groups last year - everyone of them were able to move on into RR during 2nd, or 3rd wave at a higher level and complete the program faster
darthy/ALABAMA - There is certainly a lot of paperwork with lit groups - but I was also doing a graduate thesis on my groups
Doug - carolyn are you doing the arkansas model thing?
darthy/ALABAMA - Doug, our system hasn't sent anyone to train in the Ark. model, We've had short workshops, so we had to modily our program
darthy/ALABAMA - The Arkansas model is also trademarked as is RR, so be careful in using the terms
Doug - Mary- our teacher leader turns red in the face with mention of "Arkansas model" ....barb- go to http://www.stenhouse.com and look up Awakening to Literacy....other links there
Mary K&1 - Doug - It's not Reading Recovery and should never be called it - the most that should be said about it is that it is strategy based and uses the cueing system - but it's not RR
Doug - Can a share a cute roaming thing? a teacher at our site gave us the idea....
Mary K&1 - Doug, sure
Doug - Trace the body and label it using interactive witing using anchor words that you want . ...."the arm, a leg, etc."
Mary K&1 - Doug, where are these stored? Hang them for re-reading?
Doug - slapped up on the wall
Doug - Mary- what are your ideas on "following the child?"
Mary K&1 - Doug, to me following the child means observing closely - knowing the child well - knowing what s/he needs and what will help them link form something known to something new - but I'm not always good at thinking quickly enough to make the best of each lesson - many times - after the lesson, I'm hitting myself in the head for not thinking of something better than what I did, know what I mean?
Doug - Mary- yes...very good point
darthy/ALABAMA - Mary, I am always amazed at how much easier quick thinking gets with more experience
Mary K&1 - Have any of you observed any really good "on-the'spot" thinkers BTG? If so what are some of the things that you saw? Did they have anything to help them that you could see?
Doug - mary- the pros that I see all have a real perspective on meaning.
Doug - darthy- that is what makes RR so nice. There are 5 possible responses to the same situation all okay...but one is more effective
Mary K&1 - Doug - yes, go for the meaning!! We must remember that! Go for it in the quickest way possible!
darthy/ALABAMA - Mary, with very reluctant, or even rebellious readers, I always try to have a book like level 9 At the Zoo, or something with a "trick" in it to hook them into the book
Mary K&1 - darthy - what's the trick? and wouldn't it depend upon each child?
darthy/ALABAMA - Once I had a very rebellious ADD student who would tell me he didn't want to read and wasn't going to read - I refused to fight with him as his classroom teacher would. I would say, that's O.K. I'll just read this great book to myself. Usually he was grabbing the book by the 2-3 page
Doug - darthy- did he/she ever discontinue?
darthy/ALABAMA - Doug, he was not successful in RR, but I felt good in keeping him from being a "nonreader"
Mary K&1 - Oh, I see, darthy - that's good thinking!
Doug - darthy- you are a nice person
Mary K&1 - Kids are afraid of failure, even at this young age - when they see that maybe they can do it, they start to open up and try
missy - darthy, I think that is something we all need to remember, even if the child does not met RR success criteria they are still miles ahead of where they would have been without RR
Mary K&1 - Next month we will discuss the OS and share our different ways of selecting students for the program.
Mary K&1 - Thanks for coming everyone, see you next month. Good night.
