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Mary/PA - Welcome to this evening's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net.
Mary/PA - Tonight's topic is " Writing Observation Survey Summaries."
tyylee - good evening, Mary It is almost time to write those beastly os summaries. My testing is about half done.
Mary/PA - Our first work day is tomorrow. The kids come on Thursday, so I haven't started yet
tyylee - I found some written examples of os summaries and things to think about on the amihome page.
Mary/PA - tyylee, if more people don't show up this evening, we'll wait until next time to do what we talked about last time, OK?
Mary/PA - Oh, yes, I saw them a long time ago....forgot they were there. http://www.amihome.com/rrca/products.htm
tyylee - sounds good. I am sure I will still be writing the beasts at that time.
Joyce - We begin schoolin about one week. I'm looking forward to meeting my new students.
Mary/PA - There has been some talk about writing them after RAK
Joyce - This is my fourth year teaching Reading Recovery.
Mary/PA - And also after text testing with the Scott Forsemann booklets, testing with other texts the way they do in NZ,,,getting an easy, instructional and hard for each child...did you see that?
tyylee - I have heard it said that if you did not give the os yourself you should wait until the end of roaming and regive it and then write the summary. Have you heard that? I also have a form for use after roaming.
Mary/PA - I'm glad that you made it this evening, Joyce! Where do you teach? I'm in NW PA.
Mary/PA - Yes, tyylee, I've heard that, but I've not seen a form
Mary/PA - What's different about the form?
tyylee - Mary, I saw the discussion about getting text levels using little books from our collections but wondered exactally how they were doing it. For most of my children, Level 1 independently would be impossible even though some can follow a pattern if you get them started.
Mary/PA - tyylee, that's what I was thinking, and how do you level teacher made books?
Mary/PA - They'd all be Pre 1 and easy.
tyylee - It is a form I got at one of the conferences and is titled 'Observations at the end of Roaming' It lists the major areas and leaves room for notes. It is not to replace the os summary but to give you a place to summarize your thoughts after Roaming.
Mary/PA - If level one is hard, where do you go?
Joyce - I teach in New York City.
Mary/PA - Is it getting any easier for you?
Drew - So do I Joyce, hello all
Mary/PA - Are you done with your initial training?
Joyce - Where do you teach?
Drew - Queens
Mary/PA - Wow, Joyce, I bet you have seen your share of Hard to Teach kids.
tyylee - I think we could use the little books for second round children but I see difficulties using them for the first rounders who aren't really reading yet.
Joyce - I teach in the Bronx.
Drew - excellent Joyce! It is great to meet another dedicated NYC teacher
Mary/PA - tyylee, from viewing that tape that I talked about last time, it appears that the kids in New Zealand are much better at text reading than the kids I see each year for first round
Joyce - Yes, We have many Hard To Teach children in my school. It's a challenge but very rewarding.
Drew - Mary, my RR training was scratched. The need is too great for me now. It is funny really, right now 5 principals in my district are fighting over me
Mary/PA - They were able to read the little books.
Drew - But I will still use Running records and OS knowledge
Mary/PA - Drew, so you won't be doing RR?
Mary/PA - What will you be teaching?
Drew - Not this year, they want me doing Title One. I believe in RR though. So hopefully next year
Mary/PA - That's a shame, Drew
Drew - Yes it is Mary, but times are very tough in NYC right now.
Mary/PA - kathy, AM and Meadea, are you all Reading Recovery teachers?
kathy - yes, 3rd year
kathy - texas
Medea/NY - I am going to be trained starting next week. I'm very excited. It will also be my first full year teaching. I graduated with my Master's last December.
Mary/PA - Good, we were going to try something tonight, but didn't know if we were going to have enough RRT's to do it....looks like we just might be able to pull this off.
Drew - Well I will leave this to you RRT's God Bless and will talk soon
Mary/PA - Oh my, Meaia, you'll have your work cut out for you. First year teaching and do RR can be a lot to handle
Medea/NY - Perhaps those who have already been involved in this program could offer some tips?
Mary/PA - I wish you luck
Joyce - Medea, in what part of New York will you be teaching in?
kathy - OS summaries. the most helpful info but the thing we hate doing the most
Mary/PA - Medea, maybe we won't go with tonight's topic, since you haven't even started your training, it won't make much sense to you
AM - Yes I am a Reading Recovery Teacher
Lindy - Great, I am currently in teacher leader training and this is our topic also.
Medea/NY - Washington County
Mary/PA - tyylee, what do you think, shoud we try to brainstorm an OS summary tonight?
Joyce - Oh, I'm in New York City.
Mary/PA - I have a copy of an OS summary front for us to look at
Medea/NY - Go ahead with the topic, I can pick up whatever information that I can.
Mary/PA - Lindy, we need another TL up here in NW PA
tyylee - How about talking about things to think about when looking at a child's test. For instance when lookin gat HSIW did the child write left to right, leave spaces, etc.
Mary/PA - This link is to an OS Summary front. Clinking on it should open a new window - http://teachers.net/mary/ossfront.pdf
Mary/PA - It requires Adobe Acrobat Reader to open it.
Mary/PA - If you don't have Acrobat, use this - http://teachers.net/mary/ossfront.gif
Mary/PA - Tyylee, that's what gets me a bit confused when doing the backs...is leaving spaces a strategy?
Mary/PA - The second one is just a gif image...not as good as the pdf, but better than nothing
Mary/PA - With the two windows open you can move back and forth or print it out if you'd rather
tyylee - I think leaving spaces shows a certain understanding of written language and can tell us something about the child's knowledge
Mary/PA - tyylee, I agree, but that word strategy keeps giving me problems
Mary/PA - This child didn't leave any spaces
tyylee - Shall we talk about each section and what understandings we get from it?
Mary/PA - did write L --> R using mostly cap. letters
tyylee - I was looking at the letter identification and noticed that all confusions are similar looking letters.
Mary/PA - yes, this child wrote L to R, but didn't look at letters and words L to R
tyylee - Did the child say the letters quickly with confidence or did he have to study and think about them? Did he hesitate over the ones that were similar as if trying to figure out which one it was?
Mary/PA - letters, words and sentences I should have said
Mary/PA - tyylee, she was fairly quick with most and expressed that she wasn't sure about the "book" 'a', 'g' and regular 'g'
tyylee - Then could we say that she didn't realize that she was confusing similar looking letters? This could indicate that she is not looking very carefully at print.
Mary/PA - tyylee, I think that was the case...she looked quickly and responded quickly...no indication that she may be wrong with the exception of those 3
tyylee - It is interesting that she knew many letters but could not hear and record them in HSIW. I wonder if she has not made that connection. I bet she could give you lots of the sounds in isolation if you asked.
Mary/PA - tyylee, not really, she had no idea about sounds...her kinder teacher doesn't do much with them
cloc - I am not a reading recovery teacher but i have a question that i was hoping might be answered, can i go ahead and ask even thought it's probably off topic?
Mary/PA - cloc, as long as it's not about chem. or calc
cloc - no chance there! i was wondring if anyone had used FROG in their school...
Mary/PA - Not I
Mary/PA - Betsy, are you a RRT?
tyylee - I see that on some of the word test words she attempted words that started with the same letter or a similar looking letter. She is either using visual cues or sound cues.
Mary/PA - If you folks want to talk aboutt something else, that's fine
Mary/PA - That's true with yellow/yes and down/blue
Mary/PA - but she did notice the ending sounds more
cloc - what do you think is the best strategy to use when a student can say every sound represented in a word but just can't seem to make the connection to the word?
Gigi/MO - We've gotten all our first graders tested and I started roaming with my 4 RR students TODAY!!
tyylee - also cat/can.. Like/milk have a similar shape and share many letters.
Mary/PA - tyylee, that thing that bothers me most about the OS and first round kids is that I really can't see how they deal with text...like this child all 3 first leverls were difficult
Gigi/MO - And I don't have my OS summaries done yet so I was looking forward to this chat!!
Mary/PA - cloc, you need to do lots of modeling how to put the sounds together....lots of oral work needs to be done so that hearing the blending can take place
tyylee - This child doesn't seem to have many strategies for dealing with text other than visual recognition of letters and memorization of a few words. She has direcitonality in writing words but not in reading text.
Mary/PA - Gigi, that's great! We haven't even started school yet
Keke - Can I ask a question about using storybooks to teach comprehension strategies?.
Mary/PA - Oh, that was the practice word, yes...but I got the feeling that cat was a partially known word...known visually
Lindy - Mary- I have always had the same problem, finding out how the child deals with text. We are being trained to use benchmark books with varying levels of support after completing the OS to answer this question.
cloc - thnaks mary/pa, i do just that but was thinking maybe there was another way that the RRt approached it, you guys are talking greek to me so i'll leave you, good luck!
Mary/PA - she said cat for and as well
Mary/PA - Lindy, why after? It sure would help with the writng of the summary if we could do it before
Mary/PA - Still do the Scott Forseman text for the reasearch, but I need more info before I start with the child
Lindy - I'm sorry. I mean after the ob. survey.
Keke - I have a question for you Mary/PA!!!
Keke - How can I use storybooks to teach reading comprehension?
Mary/PA - Boy, tyylee, you are good!
tyylee - Lindy, who is developing your list of benchmark books? I would like to know which ones you are using.
Mary/PA - You are seeing a lot here
Mary/PA - Keke, what grade?
Mary/PA - Elli, For beginning readers (that's what we work with) lots of retelling and discussion
Lindy - It does help in writing the summary and the top is completed on the strategy use you see from the benchmark books. So you have something to work with when analyzing. Must note your level of support though.
Keke - 2nd grade
Betsy - mary When do you start testing?
Mary/PA - Keke, what comprehension skills are you trying to teach?
Lindy - Our TL Trainer gave them to us to begin using this year. Many are Rigby PM books but there is a good mix of different levels and types of text.
Betsy - We start Thursday of this week as our kids don't start til tomorrow
Mary/PA - Betsy, Our kids start school this Thursday, so I'll start Thursday afternoon
Keke - Mary are you telling me that I should use retellings and discussions?
Mary/PA - I hate to grab them too soon...their heads are spinning any way
Betsy - our teachers feel that is too fast but I am anxipus to start
Betsy - anxious
Mary/PA - Keke, I said that's what we do with beginning readers. I didn't know what grade you taught when I wrote that
Mary/PA - Betsy, the pressure is on to get to lessons as soon as possible, we just can't wait very long
tyylee - Lindy, we were wondering how you would use a benchmark book for a non-reader? What would you be looking for and how would you introduce a book such as a Level 1?
Betsy - Hmmm Maybe I'll start Wed then
Betsy - Lots of discussion
Mary/PA - Lindy, have you seen the video "Observation Survey" from NZ?
Betsy - Get them excited and ready to search meaning Discuss that pic
Mary/PA - In that video, they start right off with PMs when doing the OS
Keke - I would like to teach summarizing.
Mary/PA - The kids go right to it
Elli - We started a half day on Monday and then started assessment on Tuesday. Who does the selection of children in your school? Does the TL have any input?
Mary/PA - Keke, then retelling would be good for that
Mary/PA - so would the Beginning, middle and end activities
Lindy - Depending on your level of support, it could be that your introduction is anywhere from a limited intro. similar to the scott foresman or it might be a rich intro, similar to one done for a new book during lessons, you may even read the first page to establish the pattern.
tyylee - Mary, in the video what would they do if the Level 1 book was too hard. And what kind of an introduction did they give? Short or rich?
Mary/PA - Elle, she approves our selections
Lindy - Yes we viewed the video during our assessment training.
Betsy - We meet as a team to select. There are 4 of us but we can ask for help from TL if unsure but having taught many yrs not usually a problem. We also have complete coverage
Mary/PA - She may have questions and we have to have very good reasons if we aren't taking the lowest
Mary/PA - We meet as a team at the building level as well, but our TL has to appove our selections
Mary/PA - Lindy, what did you think of it?
Lindy - I thought it was great.
Gigi/MO - Mary--So how long is it before you start with kids? Do you fax your results to your TL??
Bev/GA - Has anyone started RAK yet?
Gigi/MO - Bev--I just started TODAY!!
Betsy - We are very lucky and cover the entire bottom 40% of gradYes, we must be able to defend our choices if askede 1
Mary/PA - They gave a very brief intro...one sentence about what the book was about. The kids just started reading...they made errors, but just kept going for the most part. If they stopped the Teacher give a told and the kids went on....they seemed to have more book experiences than the kids I see
tyylee - Still testing here. Plan to start RTK next week.
Mary/PA - Gigi, yes we fax them....It'll take me a week to test the 22 or so that I have to test
Bev/GA - I finished my testing today and my teacher leader will help with selection.
Mary/PA - If as I go up the ranking it becomes obvious that the kids are getting better and better, I won't test the whole bottom 30% as they just won't be low enough for the 8 slots that I have
Gigi/MO - We started testing all the first graders 2-3 days before school started and then we only have to do about 5-6 after school starts!!
tyylee - Mary, are you still teaching Kind. half day?
Betsy - Mary, you are with Laura. Do you send your selection sheet before starting roaming?
Helen - We started to school on August 5th so we are already doing RAK.
Mary/PA - Lindy, I too really liked seeing that video, it gave me some new insights....it dawned on me that I had never observed anyone giving an OS before
Helen - Do any of you know about sending info to the new computer site. Our TL seems to have some problem. Or is everyone having problems?
Mary/PA - Helen, You really start early! Are you in a Southern State?
Betsy - How do you test them before school starts?
Mary/PA - Gigi, that is a great thing to do!! How do you get the kids to school?
Betsy - Gigi, that is a great idea!!
Helen - Yes, I'm in Alabama. We are a DODDS school.
Gigi/MO - Betsy--We send out letters that explain the OS and the parents bring them in at assigned times!! We had ALL but ONE show up this year out of 36 students!!
Mary/PA - Helen, we did our record on the site last year...it worked great for me!! I really liked doing it that way...much better than the bubble sheets
Betsy - K teachers could certainly recommend some students
Mary/PA - Gigi, the 36...is that just the low kids? Or is it the whole first grade class?
Gigi/MO - Then we do the selections as a first grade team!!
Helen - Mary, we have our first continuing contact this week so maybe we'll get the information we need then. Our TL is at a different school system.
tyylee - We never know who is going to show up at our door the first day even though we try to pre-enroll as much as possible. Often those children that I identify in Kind. as needing RR will be pushed to second round by new, needier students.
Gigi/MO - 36 is the whole first grade!! but then we've had some move in also so it might be up to around 40!! We tested 6 students after school the second day of school!!
Mary/PA - Helen, don't let it frighten you, It's really quite a good way to do it. You can't make as manny errors...if you forget to enter something the computer tells you
Betsy - WOW awesome I'll suggest it to our TL, Gigi
Helen - How can you test kids after school? All our kids ride the bus. What about permissions slips being returned?
Betsy - We only test the bottom 30% at first
Mary/PA - We have 60 to 70 kids each year in first grade and I'm the only one...how long would it take one person to test that many kids?
Betsy - too long, Mary
Betsy - You make me feel lucky. You can only do your best!!
Betsy - Which you are, Mary.
tyylee - Need to get my beauty rest, early stafff meeting in the morning. Night all, see you next time.
Mary/PA - Betsy, that's my thought as well
Betsy - Must go. School tomorrow
Helen - This was my first web chat ever. I enjoyed it. G'nite!
Mary/PA - It wouldbe nice to be able to test before school starts, but I'd just want to do the low kids...I couldn't test them all! By the time I got down the tests would be too old to be valid and I'd have to start all over
Mary/PA - Thanks for coming everyone!!
Mary/PA - I always learn something from you
Mary/PA - Time for me to go as well
Gigi/MO - Mary--I have the other first grade teachers help me test!!
Mary/PA - That would bwe a big help
Mary/PA - Do you train them?
Mary/PA - Do they get paid?
Gigi/MO - Helen--I know you logged off but this is for you if it is on the archives!! We send notes home on the first day of school asking them to stay and to be picked up at 5:30!! Then if they don't/can't stay, I test them at school but I didn't do that with anyone this year!! I did finish the 10 min. writing with one and 2 text levels that went up to 12 and 14!!
Gigi/MO - Mary--One is a former RR teacher and the other one has been trained in giving the OS by a RR teacher leader!! We just divide it up!!
Mary/PA - Gigi, that sure give you and the whole staff good knowledge about where their instruction should begin.
Mary/PA - Do you test them all again later in the year?
Gigi/MO - We divide it up and the students go to 3 stations!! I do the text levels!! One does letter ID, Word test, and CAP and the other does the writing part and will do text level if I'm getting behind!! We schedule 3 students per hour!!
Mary/PA - Wow, that's quite a system!
Mary/PA - It doesn't bother the kids to have to move from one teacher to the other like that?
Gigi/MO - We give it at the end of the year!! We usually stay about 5-6 nights after school and keep 6 students per night!! It really shows growth (or lack of it) since we don't give any kind of end-of the year tests!!
Gigi/MO - No, it doesn't bother the kids at all to move from teacher to teacher!!
Mary/PA - Was it difficult to get this approved by the adiministration?
Gigi/MO - far as pay, we have what is called Career Ladder here in MO!! Have you ever heard of that??
Mary/PA - No I haven't
Gigi/MO - I think we just told them that we were doing it!! This is about our third or fourth year doing it!! I think they REALLY like it because it gets us get started with kids right away and it is scores on paper!! All administration likes that don't they??
Mary/PA - I don't know...they are often concerned about other things.
Mary/PA - I can see the Board members having lots of questions.
Mary/PA - Well, I really do have to go. Thanks for coming, Gigi I've learned a great deal from you this evening!
Gigi/MO - I could tell you about Career Ladder but it is kinda hard to explain!! If you send me your email, I could try!! We've never had anyone question WHY we do it!!
Mary/PA - Good night, and have a great day tomorrow!
Mary/PA - mary@teachers.net
Gigi/MO - You too!! Nice talking to you!! Sorry I was late!!
Mary/PA - That's the easiest one to remember
Mary/PA - Oh, that's not a problem
Gigi/MO - OK!! Thanks!! Night!!
Mary/PA - Bye for now
