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Mary/PA - Hi Didi
Mary/PA - How many more weeks do you have in this term?
didi (Aus) - Hi Mary just went off for a minute
didi (Aus) - We are in the first week of our holidays now
Mary/PA - Looks like you are here now
Mary/PA - Hi JofPA
Mary/PA - Welcome to this evening's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net.
didi (Aus) - I'm down in Brisbane at my brothers about 15,000 kilometers from home
Mary/PA - WOW, didi, are you done with school for a while?
didi (Aus) - sorry 1500 kilometers not in outer space
JofPA - anyone teach primary?
Mary/PA - Hi Kathy
Mary/PA - JofPA, we all do, this is a Reading Recovery Meeting, we teach first graders
Mary/PA - Oh, didi, so you are still on the planet
JofPA - oh , oops, well I teach 2nd...but I was just trying to get some ideas on "Problem Solving" been asked to write the program
Mary/PA - Oh my, Jof, "Problem Solving"? In any area of the curric.?
didi (Aus) - I went to two ofBarbara Watsons sessions at the RR conference we had last Saturday she is great!
JofPA - Math
Mary/PA - Hi Hope
didi (Aus) - Hi everyone
Mary/PA - didi, can you share something she had to say with us tonight?
didi (Aus) - The big challenge to me was the writing session She was strong on our need to teach composing.
Mary/PA - Hi everyone! Welcome to this evening's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net. Tonight's topic - Early Lessons
Mary/PA - composing in what way?
Mary/PA - Hi Alison
Alison - Hi everyone!
Mary/PA - composing to get more complex sentences?
didi (Aus) - That we dont' just accept what the child says but have ideas of a topic and then broach a topic and have a short conversation to feed in more ideas.
didi (Aus) - exactly Mary
didi (Aus) - The sentences mine have been doing would be about week 3 by her standard so I have lots of work to do.
Mary/PA - I can agree with that. The only problem is TIME. Some of the kids have so little to say about any thing. It takes a lot of time to get them to say much.
Alison - Didi- could you give an example of a week 3 sentence?
didi (Aus) - The example she gave was KNoing the class had been to the zoo. Asking the child their favourite animal
didi (Aus) - their reply being an elephant T response yea yes elephants have rough gray skin
Alison - LOL Mary, I can't get mine to stop talking! When it rains it pours.
Mary/PA - The child says "tiger" - then what does the teacher say to get more from the child?
Mary/PA - Alison, I guess so!
didi (Aus) - Childs response yes and they have big yellow toenails with the child ending up with most of that info in their story
didi (Aus) - The teacher feeds some descriptive words in about tigers
Mary/PA - How does the teacher get the child to use those words that she feeds to him?
didi (Aus) - She said that the teachers and child might only each talk twice before the sentence id composed
didi (Aus) - I think the teacher has to encourage the child to include them in the composing time.
didi (Aus) - My sentences have been I like playing with the ball etc
Mary/PA - I'm just finishing RAK now. My lowest kids have a very difficult time composing very simple sentences. They can't put their thoughts together. They speak in single words and short phrases...I have a lot of work to do with this.
didi (Aus) - What Barbara said is that we have been pushing for longer sentences but not increasing the complexity which is focus we need to look to
Mary/PA - Hi tyylee
didi (Aus) - Hi Tylee
didi (Aus) - Tylee I went to a conference on Sat where I went to 2 of Barbara Watsons sessions so that's who I'm referring to
Hope - This is my second year in RR and I was wondering when do you write up the predictions of progress for your students before or after roaming?
tyylee - Barbara was at the National Conference in the US a couple of years ago and said the same things there. Even included the elephant story!!
didi (Aus) - She also said that we need to go back and make it clear that we are going to initiate a topic and if they have something special they are ready to write about they must let us know immediately or we will write about what we start talking about
Mary/PA - Today, one of my students was trying to say that she likes to play ball with her dog. She couldn't put the two things together. She said, "I like to play with my dog with a ball." Would a sentence like that be acceptable?
tyylee - I have tried ever since to get more complex sentences but some children just refuse to have that be their story and insist on it being their more simple way. Since it is their story, what would Barbara have us do?
didi (Aus) - Tylee di it challenge you and change your writing time
didi (Aus) - I got the feeling she would say we have to push them and take them out of their safe zone as for many of these kids they don't do so easily
Mary/PA - Hope I write my first predictions at the beginning of RAK. We should have the first ones done before we start, but I don't like to wait, so I write them as soon as I can.
didi (Aus) - She implied that we are still careful not to change grammar in the early weeks
tyylee - I have had some just refuse to write the more complex sentences! Part of the problem is that they have inadequate oral vocabularies and don't want to write what they can't say or don't really understand.
Hope - Thanks Mary.
didi (Aus) - I'm not sure as we are on hols at present so will have to try when we go back.
Hope - Is anyone attending the RR conference in Pa this Oct.?
Mary/PA - So we don't try to get better grammar out of them in early lessons? When and how do we get this going?
didi (Aus) - Did she talk about teaching composing there tylee
Alison - Hope, I start to write mine during the second week of RAK and edit as we proceed through the second week . By the time RAK is over they are done and we can get down to business.
tyylee - I think if we are go get more complex sentences early on we will have to accept more of the writing tasks being done by the teacher or we simply won't have time to get it done.
Mary/PA - Hope, I didn't know about itWhere is it?
Hope - Oops, it
Hope - Ooops, it's actually in Providence, RI.
Mary/PA - We rewrite (update) our predictions every 5 weeks.
didi (Aus) - I think that is part of the change over time we keep being reminded about
Mary/PA - Oh, I know about that one, Hope. I'm not going
Hope - I hope to attend, but am waiting for my principal to make a decision - funding is a problem. I hear Marie Clay will be speaking there.
didi (Aus) - I know with this round of children I have worked on longer sentences from the outset and yes It has meant more T input but I am surprised at how quickly they are taking over. Barbara implies that with longer more complex sentences frequently used word will become known and not to get too worried if they initially don't recall them when 1st taught
Mary/PA - didi, when we set the topic for writing, upon what do we base our decision?
tyylee - I am paid by Title 1 and they budget in the National Conference for us each year. It is such a good conference, well worth the money.
tyylee - So you use a word wall for Reading Recovery. I haven't done that, is it something that was recommended or just that you find successful?
Amy - Hi everyone! I'm going to the conference in RI. Paying for most of it myself.
didi (Aus) - She said on topics learned from RAK keeping tabs on what is happening in the classroom and building on some of that and just noting things the child says from time to time.
Mary/PA - tyylee, where did you see that someone is using a word wall in RR?
didi (Aus) - Barbara wasn't too keen on using the time walking with the child to the lesson for writing as she said this was not the time to teach composing effectively
Hope - DIdi, did she suggest making a connection to the running record book as a good writing task?
didi (Aus) - She was extremely strong on the need for up to teach composing rather than just getting a response from the child.
tyylee - The pink book we used my training year (sorry I can't recall the title) said that the highest performance came from children who wrote about the stories they had just read for their Running Record. I mis-read word wall instead of word will, sorry. I have wondered if I should keep my word wall for my Literacy Group classes up for RR or cover it when teaching RR. Any thoughts?
didi (Aus) - She said that is fine sometimes she also suggested bringing in small object or stimulus pictures to work from
Amy - Hmm...that's interesting, didi. I've joined in late...are we talking about Barbara Watson? I've been doing lots of sticker stories during RAK. Found great Spot stickers and they've been very motivating!
didi (Aus) - Hi Amy yes it Barbara Watson
tyylee - The pink book is called "Partners in Learning" by Lyons, Pinnell, and DeFord
didi (Aus) - Tyylee did Barbara talk about composing at your conference?
Mary/PA - So, should part of our dialog with the child include explaining what a good sentence needs?
tyylee - Yes, it seems to have been nearly the same message you heard.
Amy - Tylee, I've given some workshops on word walls, and from what I understand from the research, they really need to be very interactive to be effective. Since you probably wouldn't have time to do many interactive activities during an RR lesson, I'm not sure how useful it would be.
didi (Aus) - Did your exiting child have better sentences than you had got previously
tyylee - Amy, there are Spot rubber stamps that are great for Spot stories. I got mine at conference.
didi (Aus) - ie with previous child that you had exited from the programme
Mary/PA - Did she give any examples of good end of program sentences?
Mary/PA - or stories?
tyylee - My school has been doing extensive teaching of the writing process across the curriculum in all classrooms and in Literacy Group times so I am not sure if I can say that their improved writing was due to what I was doing or the instruction they were getting overall their school experiences.
didi (Aus) - She did But i can't remember any off hand but none of mine come close to it so I have a lot of work to do.
Mary/PA - What is an example of a good end of program story? I'd like to know where to aim.
Mary/PA - tyylee, can you give an example of a good story?
tyylee - I got some longer stories but never was able to get the children to include the more complex vocabulary that Barbara wanted. They just wouldn't write what they couldn't say for themselves and I have thought that we shouldn't insist that they write it 'our way'. What do you think?
Mary/PA - Did Barbara say anything about how to best cut-up the sentences?
Amy - How often have any of you done continuous stories that build on the previous day's writing? I've tried to do this more towards the end of students' programs. Sometimes I'll type up 5 or so days of their related sentences into paragraph form to create a longer "story", similar to what's expected in the classroom. Does that make sense?
tyylee - I tried to get at least three sentences by the end of the program, with proper punctuation.
Mary/PA - tyylee, I don't know what to think. They need to stretch themselves soon as that is needed these days.
didi (Aus) - Sorry Mary just checking my notes no example of a story but
Alison - Amy, how do you use these longer "stories" after you type them up?
Mary/PA - Amy, that's a good idea. I've tried, but often the child doesn't want to write about the same topic. I haven't pushed for this, but I think I will this year.
didi (Aus) - She said we should be able to look back over 10 days of stories and see increasing difficulty in the work my notes say the teacher is elaborating an idea using more complex structures
Mary/PA - Hi nik
tyylee - Can we 'insist' that they use our words or language in their stories. For example the 'rough gray hide of the elephant'' that Barbara W. mentioned.
Mary/PA - and nel
Mary/PA - tyylee, that would be hard to do as that is something that none of the kids I work with would ever say. Did she say how to get the child to use those words?
Mary/PA - Do we make them repeat what we say?
Amy - I basically just have the child read the story several times, then I encourage him to share it in class. It's a big confidence booster, but you really do need to get them hooked on a topic they like!
didi (Aus) - I think if they include rough gray skin and that was building on previous stories that would be growth it doesn't have to be our exact words but picking up on some of the vocab we use.
Mary/PA - Do we say, "Tell me about the elephant's skin."?
didi (Aus) - For my children just getting them to use one adjective would be progress so if they initially use one of the words I would be happy.
tyylee - That is the problem that I have generating the more complex rich sentences that BW said we should be writing. My children don't want to write what they didn't say or wouldn't say.
Mary/PA - Was if rough? What color was it? Did it have wrinkles?
Alison - I have worked hard with some of my kids on getting in at least one adjective. I usually say something like, I wonder how that ball felt? or What color is your ball? Then we go from there. The kids usually respond.
tyylee - After they answered your questions would you help them put it all into a sentence format?
Alison - Is this what Barbara was talking about?
didi (Aus) - I think we would be making a comment in the conversation after the child says something like 'I like the big elephant' the T response may be yes and they have rough gray skin with the child to respond with a further comment about the elephant and then taking all that's been said move into the composing section of the writing time
Mary/PA - tyylee, I'm asking here tooI was asking if that is what we do?
Alison - Me too!
Alison - Me too!
Amy - I think for some kids, (esp. ESOL) that's where having a conversation about a really detailed or interesting picture might be really helpful. I don't think I've used pictures enough.
didi (Aus) - She was strong on not questioning so I think she would be looking to us responding with a comment
Maureen - Hello everyone!
Mary/PA - Hi Maureen
Maureen - I've been busy, busy, busy!
Mary/PA - Oh, ok, so we don't question, rather we state further info about the topic. I think I'm beginning to understand
Maureen - Hi Didi ... talking about writing?
Mary/PA - oops
didi (Aus) - Yes Tyylee I think that was her big thing that we have to teach the children how to put the information into a sentence ie compose
Amy - Good night, ladies!
Maureen - Teaching for composing?
tyylee - Mary, you have been around the children too long
Mary/PA - Do we gather thoughts, then put them together...Do we ever give an example of how the info could be put together? Or do we just get out of the child the best that they are able at that time?
Maureen - I'm finding that making statements about the topic, rather than questioning the child, makes a difference.
Maureen - Then say, "What can you write about that?"
Maureen - You feed in this descriptive vocab during the writing of the story. If you have the child's trust that you will be helpful, it works.
didi (Aus) - How do you work on composing Maureen
didi (Aus) - Maureen you're doing Tutor training this year aren't you?
Maureen - Choose a topic, a short conversation, then the invitation to compose.
Maureen - Yes, I am. I'm learning such a lot. I love it!
Mary/PA - So, I can see why we set the topic for the writing. If we let the child set the topic we won't know details about which we can comment. For example, if the child wants to write about his dog, we won't know about its color, length of hair and all...we would have to question to get to that info.
tyylee - Got to go, this has been very helpful. Thank you everyone!
didi (Aus) - See ya Tyylee
Mary/PA - Thanks for coming tyylee, I hope to see you next time!
Mary/PA - This has been a very helpful chat! Thanks didi for starting it
Maureen - Mary, we set topics that we know the child is interested in. If he wants to write about his dog that's fine. Part of our art is to draw the child out AND to feed in more complex vocab and structure. Too many questions can seem like an inquisition to the child.
didi (Aus) - So Maureen how much do you determine the language in the composing
Mary/PA - Maureen, I hope you can come often to share with us some of what you are learning.
Maureen - Mostly feeding in adjectives that I used in the conversation, I think.
Mary/PA - If the child wants to write about something we don't know much about, do we say, "Tell be about ___?" Is that too much of a demand?
Maureen - It's hard for me to get here, Mary. I'm in school at this time usually. On a study break at the moment.
didi (Aus) - Thanks for clarifying things Maureen its been great to get this clear before I forgot it over the hols
didi (Aus) - Thanks for clarifying things Maureen its been great to get this clear before I forgot it over the hols
Mary/PA - We need to get those chats going in your time zone!
Maureen - Yes, or hazard a guess .. the child will enjoy putting you right!
didi (Aus) - We have been trying to get a night one set up Maureen which would be about 7pm your time 9PM EST here in Aus but my colleagues here are hard to get involved at present.
Mary/PA - That's true, Maureen. I need to remember that.
Mary/PA - Thanks.
Maureen - That could be a better time for me, Didi.
Mary/PA - I need to get going. It's now after 10 PM here. Need to get a few things done before hitting the hay
didi (Aus) - It's noon here Maureen what time are you now
Alison - Thanks Didi. Enjoy your holiday.
Mary/PA - Thanks for coming didi and Maureen. I learn so much from you two!
Maureen - It's 2:15 pm here.
didi (Aus) - Sorry I hijacked it Mary but it has helped me rethinking it
Maureen - Bye, Mary. I learn things here too
Maureen - You hijacked the chat, Didi?
didi (Aus) - So it would be 7pm your time its listed in the meetings still I think as I can't remember which days usually the same day as this meeting I think
didi (Aus) - Yes We had a conference last Saturday in Twonsville and I went to 2 of Barbara Watsons sessions and I was talking bout what she said about writing
Maureen - OK, I'll have a look for it, Didi. It would be 7pm tonight NZ time?
didi (Aus) - Probably the time listed id Australian Eastern Standard time
Maureen - I see ... all fired up for next term then?
didi (Aus) - yes, right but its my last I'm back on class next year
Maureen - I bet you will miss it! Is there a specified time for you to in the classroom before you can go back to RR?
didi (Aus) - Great to hear from you again Maureen I'd better go and get My mum some lunch we are down in Brisbane at my brothers
didi (Aus) - We can go back to RR after 1 year back on class I'm told
Maureen - Where in Brisbane? I have a brother there too!
didi (Aus) - I'm down the Gold Coast
Maureen - Small world
Maureen - My brother is at Logan.
didi (Aus) - Sure is but its a long drive down we took 3 days this time so not so bad
didi (Aus) - We drove past Logan on the way down.
Maureen - Wow, that's a long drive ... rest up for the journey back!
didi (Aus) - will do seeya
Maureen - Bye for now!
