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Mary/PA - Welcome to this evening's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net.
Mary/PA - Tonight's topics are, "mid to higher level processing" and avoiding/overcoming the plateau effect."
didi(Aus) - This sounds great as we are only two and half weeks to the end of the school year.
Mary/PA - didi, is the school year almost over for you?
didi(Aus) - Mine have only one a half weeks left on program
leftcoast - We are only 4 weeks from losing our Aussie exchange teacher.
Mary/PA - leftcoast, did you learn anything new from her/him?
didi(Aus) - This is it for us We finish on Dec 14th new school year starts Last week in Jan and we can't carry 7 yr olds over
leftcoast - Lots, Mary, but not to do with teaching. Things like good candies and treats, and stuff
Mary/PA - didi, do you have some that could use it?
didi(Aus) - My current ones are week 11 at L 11,L 13, and L16
Mary/PA - Oh my, left coast....that's good too
didi(Aus) - They are doing well But ideally I'd like to get them higher
leftcoast - didi, I am so so jealous. Mine are at week 11 and levels 4,5,6
didi(Aus) - This is our second round
Mary/PA - didi, that's not high enough for your schools, is it?
alison - Me too, mine are week 11 levels 3,5,6,9
Mary/PA - My kids range from levels 5 to 9
leftcoast - I can't seem to get a breakthrough in the writing
Mary/PA - week 11 as well
leftcoast - Oh, Mary, you make me feel better.
Mary/PA - leftcoast, what breakthrough are you looking for?
didi(Aus) - As we traveled for a colleague visit an hour from here (3 of us went together) we discussed how children find pm difficult at L12 and so and one girl reminded us about how the use of adjectives increases markedly and this trips up some kids.
Mary/PA - I tested for the average in the class where my two 9s are and it's only level 4
didi(Aus) - At this time of year Satisfactory on the Year 2 report cards is instructional to easy L20
Mary/PA - Yes, the language does get more sophisticated at those levels, I think that's why many kids plateau
leftcoast - I'm looking for something that they can start to build with. Known words for any one of them is less than 20, (in writing) and I feel like that is my weakness.\
didi(Aus) - I went back and explicitly explained about the adjectives and it made a big difference
Mary/PA - leftcoast, that was a problem for me as well until we got a new TL. She showed us how to use the M&B time to teach new words.
alison - didi-what did you tell them?
Mary/PA - We didn't have to wait until the child showed that he/she could write 50% or more of a new word before taking it to M&B time for learning
didi(Aus) - I.e. where the text said the big red bus. I talked about how they knew it should say bus but that big and red were telling us more about the bus
leftcoast - My TL says we aren't supposed to "teach" new words, but I am taking one word to fluency, or trying to from their writing each day, and using some cool strategies I got from an occupational therapist, such as after they have done it several times, to do it with their eyes closed.
didi(Aus) - We were always told only known writing words to be used in M&B
Mary/PA - Fluency too is very important at these levels, without it, the kids can't read for meaning and the reading really breaks down.
alison - My TL visited last week. She jumped right in on one of my students during M&B with an unknown for the child to work on.
didi(Aus) - I saw one colleague early in the program use M&B to used the letters to reinforce spelling words
leftcoast - My kids don't have all the letters of the alphabet yet
Mary/PA - didi, that's what we were told before as well....it always bothered me because the opportunity to learn new words was so limited without getting it started some where besides a little after the first reading or during the writing....This new way that we are doing it now really helps
Mary/PA - After we are sure that the child knows how to learn words, we don't do it any longer and spend time on the Making and Breaking instead
didi(Aus) - Another breakthrough I had with 2 of my boys was to get them to admit they were scared of making a mistake and for several days explicitly point out how making a mistake was good because it helped them to work out the right word. it was a real breakthrough for them both.
Mary/PA - leftcoast, we start our early M&B time with pools of letters. These pools are made up of words the child has been working on and a new word. We first have the child sort and name the letters, then make words they know and then give them the letters for a new word and make it for them and then have them make it.
Mary/PA - That's kind of generalized, everything is adapted for each child, but that's the basic procedure
didi(Aus) - That sounds good Mary
leftcoast - Yes, but if you go from the known to the next, you could give them no, which they read, and go, and have them make so, but what if they don't have words to build on, that pattern.? If they had at, and cat, I could build on it, but they don't have at OR cat.
Mary/PA - All that letter sorting really helps the kids
leftcoast - We do a lot of that still
Mary/PA - Higher level processing and avoiding or over coming the plateau effect
Mary/PA - Do you let them take their Alphabet book home to read each night?
leftcoast - No, never even thought of it. Of course my kids don't bring their books back.
alison - Mary, do you have any suggestions on how to avoid the plateau effect?
didi(Aus) - What things do you include in the higher level processing?
didi(Aus) - I have always tended to go too visual, i.e. find known chunks syllables etc but I'm trying to keep more focus on meaning this time
leftcoast - I made each of them a book with my digital camera and their pictures. We even used "their" stories for some of the pages. I was able to sneak in lots of high frequency words. They can take them home as often as they want. They are actually higher level than they started at, but the motivation was there to read them.
Mary/PA - alison, I believe that fluency is very important, and like didi was saying earlier, explaining the language of the book id so important...they have to really be reading for meaning, if they aren't, everything breaks down
Mary/PA - They also have to have a definite plan of what to do at difficulty...they have to know what to do and do it immediately
Mary/PA - Often, when they stop, it's not because they are lacking item knowledge, it's because they don't know what to do....they have been relying on someone to tell them what to do....they have to know what their job is and when to do it.
Mary/PA - You have to explicitly teach them a plan of attack
leftcoast - I have one that wants to stop all the time for reassurance, and if he stops too often, he loses the meaning.
Mary/PA - We can't assume that because they know the parts, that they know what to do to put it all together
Mary/PA - leftcoast, have you told him that he is the one who has to tell himself if what he did was right or not....that you are not going to say anything until he finishes the page or book
alison - Thanks for the reminders and tips. I'm training this year. It's coming together a bit. My hard to remember kid has just started to notice, monitor a little, and even self-correct a bit. It's exciting. I don't want to do anything that will hold him back. I'll need to make sure he knows what to do.
leftcoast - I often say "Were you right?" when he was, and then tell him he's just trying to get me to say something before it's my turn.
Mary/PA - That's a good one, left
didi(Aus) - Remember to say were you right both when he's correct and incorrect
Mary/PA - "It's not my turn." .... I like it
leftcoast - After the new book intro, he always says, "now it's my turn, right?
didi(Aus) - With mine I have found getting them to complete the sentence with the word they say and then check if it sounds right helps even if initially I have to verbalize the word they are muttering under their breath for them. (Its hard to repeat their errors sometimes)
leftcoast - I don't think he gets his turn much at home, or thinks he's right about much at home or school
Mary/PA - It's a shame that children so young are so afraid to take a chance for fear of being wrong....what has the world done to these kids?
leftcoast - for this one, you don't want to know
Mary/PA - Hi Maureen!
Maureen - What is the topic today?
Mary/PA - I haven't seen you in a long time!
Mary/PA - How is it going for you? Are you too almost done with your school year?
Mary/PA - "mid to higher level processing" and avoiding/overcoming the plateau effect."
Mary/PA - You are Maureen from NZ, aren't you?
Maureen - Nearly at the end of the year, Mary.
Maureen - Yes I am Mary
Maureen - Hi Didi!
leftcoast - Are there some levels that seem to be particularly hard not to "plateau" at? I haven't been at this long enough to know. It seemed to me that I had one last year that once she got to 11 there was no stopping her, and others that seemed to hit a wall there
Mary/PA - is, not in....sorry about that
Maureen - Trying to get all my kids finished up ... I'm moving on next year.
Mary/PA - It's different for every child....some have a hard time getting out of L3
Mary/PA - I do think that a lot depends upon their personal language skills
didi(Aus) - Hi Maureen, I'll get to answer your email soon been too busy for this week.
Maureen - I think that book choice is an important factor, leftcoast. Is this the right book for this child, is the daily question I ask myself.
Mary/PA - Moving on to what? where?
didi(Aus) - What are you doing next year Maureen?
Maureen - OK, Didi.
Maureen - I am going to train as a RR Tutor/TL.
Mary/PA - WOW!! That's great, Maureen!
Mary/PA - Do you have to move away from home to be able to do that?
Maureen - I'm very excited about it Mary!
leftcoast - back. Yes, book choice is very important. It's especially hard when I have 3 who lose books and are all at the same level
didi(Aus) - That sounds good Maureen, better to do that than as here where raw recruits do RR training in the same year they train for RR Tutor
Maureen - Mary, yes I do ... that's the downside. I'll have a long commute ... 400 miles!
leftcoast - Last year I got so frustrated with book choices available that I spent a couple of hundred of my own money to get more books
kinderkate - Loss of books is a problem that I am having this year that I haven't had before.
Mary/PA - Oh, didi, that's not good, not good at all
didi(Aus) - I have stopped sending books home with two of mine because they were not returning them or reading them.
Mary/PA - That's the way it is here too, Maureen. I'm just too old to do that!
Mary/PA - Oh, didi, I've had that happen as well. Sad, isn't it
didi(Aus) - What a difference support from home makes!!!
leftcoast - One neat thing about choice of books, is last year I had a girl named Sam who has re curly hair, if any of you are familiar with PM plus books. all the kids loved the Sam stories.
alison - Maureen, do you have a few reminders for making good book choices that you would share?
didi(Aus) - The PM books are good and the larger more spaced print was good for some children.
Mary/PA - alison, book choice is so different for each child. It depends upon what the child can do now, what your focus for him is, what he knows and likes....
leftcoast - Mary, I am so glad I found this chat. I always go away feeling more energized and ready to go in the next day, even if we just share how things are going. Thanks again. Good night.
didi(Aus) - The Oxford tree are good for meaning focused kids
Mary/PA - Well, folks, I have to go now. You are welcome to say and chat. I have lots to get done.
kinderkate - With English Language Learners the vocabulary is very important. I often use white tape to change the words. For example if the child uses the word bucket instead of pail.
didi(Aus) - Sorry that was PM plus books before
kinderkate - Thanks again, Mary. I'll get the rest on the archives.
Mary/PA - Thanks for coming, everyone. I hope to see you all next time as well.
