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Mary/PA - Welcome to this evening's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net.
Mary/PA - We have no topic set for tonight, so let's just start with whatever concerns we may have.
Doug - I have a child at level 11 move last week. Gosh that's frustrating
Doug - I gave OS and TR was 10 at instructional level, 12 was at 80 and i like level 14 to show good processing behavior
Doug - I consulted yesterday with a word by word reader. I taught him to sing his familiar reading and he know sounds phrased and fluent with the new book and his running record book
Doug - now sounds....v
Mary/PA - Oh doug! After all that work, That's more than frustrating
Mary/PA - Doug, is he one of your students?
Doug - Mary- I gave an OS to a child who moved from blue track to green and she has attendance problems....she reads at a 1, WV was 9, Dic was 12......I'm going to pick her up and tell the parents that only 4 absences are allowed....principal said she would drive to the child's home and pick her up .......
Doug - mary- the singing one...no a child in the next cubbicle in the literacy room
Mary/PA - WOW, I guess your principal is really supportive!
Doug - I then gave the rr teacher Sing a Song and a few others
Doug - Mary she is one of the reasons I still work there
Mary/PA - What are blue and greee tracks?
Doug - Mary....v again LOL
Doug - 4 track year round school....Clay says that rr was not meant for year round though
Doug - I'm going to see Clay in Sacramento in a few months...I am excited
Mary/PA - Doug, what difference would it make?
Mary/PA - Is it because of the long breaks?
Doug - book graphs show declines during 20 day breaks...we teach 60 days and have 20 off
Mary/PA - I saw her a few years ago in Ohio
Doug - Mary- do you have kids get tutored by older children if not much parent support is evident?
Mary/PA - Doug, I've done it in the past, but not this year, I didn't see improvment
Doug - What do you think about barry's new idea....to read PM's to kids with kids moving into level 3's?
Mary/PA - I would need time to meet with the tutors to instruct them about how and when to prompt and not to fiddle around and play games when reading should be occuring
Doug - Originally it came from Barbara Watson I believe
Mary/PA - I heard about that last year, I thouhgt it was Barbara Watson's idea
Doug - It's controversial....
Mary/PA - I don't see that it hurts anything and it sure sets the kid up to use M and S with greater ease
Doug - that's how I see it and it is just to avoid flatlining
Mary/PA - I know it is, but I don't see why, it's not like you would do it for an extended time
Doug - no and it was explained that you immediatly phase it out once started
Doug - mary- please excuse me. i love talking to you but my daughter is asking for computer time......take care......have a nice Christmas and a great New Year...bye
swifty - Any new ideas for parent involvement?
Mary/PA - I don't have any, if they won't be involved, nothing seems to work
Gigi/MO - Maybe you already do this but I send a half sheet of paper home every night and the parents sign it and check how the child did reading the books and putting the cut-up sentence together!!
Mary/PA - I've tried that and many others - with most of the parents, the sheet comes back unsigned
Gigi/MO - Mine always come back signed and usually checked read with no help!!
Mary/PA - You have a good group of parents
Gigi/MO - whether they really are or not, who knows!!
Gigi/MO - They are a good group and I meant whether the books REALLY get read or not, who knows!!
Mary/PA - I've been teaching RR for 8 years now. Many of my students are coming from the same families, they've been through it before and are still not able to find the time to sit with their child every night
Mary/PA - Gigi, are your students making good progress?
ginny - Where are you kids? 2 of mine have sever language issues
Gigi/MO - I feel that 3 out of the 4 are doing fairly well!! They are on levels 5-8. Don't really know how that measures up?
ginny - Yup, they are.
Mary/PA - ginny, One of mine has a very sever articulation problem, but he has the language in his head, it's just hard to understand him, another has artic. problems and language, but she's starting to get it figured out and making good progress now
Gigi/MO - I wish I had them higher because I'm on my 16th week!!
Mary/PA - I'm on week 14 - two are on level 11, one 9 and one 8
jare - I just did my pre-student teaching in 2nd grade, and I believe a few of our readers would have been good candidates for the program. I was wondering if it is ever used for students past first grade.
Gigi/MO - WOW!! Good job Mary!!
Mary/PA - It isn't supposed to be, jare
Denise - Jare, it's design is for children still having difficulty with learning literacy after one year of school -- K for us
Mary/PA - But some schools do some kind of extension program, but it really shouldn't be called Reading Recovery
Mary/PA - Yes, I'm having a pretty good year so far
Denise - Reading Recovery may be continued in 2nd grade for those with incomplete programs at year end of grade 1, however even this is cautioned
jare - Alright. So who identifies the students who are in need of RR? The 1st grade teacher?
ginny - OK! One of my artic kids is beginning to hear sounds in words well and to search through for word parts
ricola1650 - is there certain criteria for a student to be placed in reading recovery
ginny - Jare, the reading recovery teacher tests the children who are lowest in the class
Denise - children are assessed with an Observation Survey and the lowest children are selected with assistance of each school's Reading Recovery team
ginny - That's based on K teacher recommendation and 1st grade teacher rec
ginny - Our school doesn't have an RR team although we've been trying
Mary/PA - ginny, that's great! he/she should really start to accelerate now
Denise - suggestions from K and 1 are fine too! 3's a team, isn't it??
ginny - Oh, thanks, Mary
Mary/PA - ricola, for a student to be in Reading Recovery, he/she must be the lowest preforming in first grade
ginny - my other sweetie has really severe structural problems - makes it hard to monitor for structure - but he learns words well - doesn't always use beginning sound - still thinks reading is remembering
Mary/PA - ginny, that's a hard one to work with
ginny - I know but he's adorable
5thgrteacher - How do teachers cope with their kids being pulled out so much
5thgrteacher - how do they catch up?
5thgrteacher - My kids get pulled out for band and chours and we have a hard time keeping them up with every one else.
ginny - The children usually make such accelerated progress that it isn't a problem. Sometimes they miss recess
Mary/PA - We teach strategies and how to learn how to learn rather than mostly item knowledge
Mary/PA - Being that we work one-on-one, we can hone in on each child's particular needs
ricola1650 - is everyone else a reading specialist or primary teachers
5thgrteacher - Ok, but what do the teachers do to keep these kids up to date with the other kids who don't get pulled?
ginny - Reading Recovery and reading specialist
ginny - The first child of the day, I take out of calendar time
ginny - Another is taken during wind down time after lunch
5thgrteacher - I have kids who are pulled by the Reading Specialist because they scored in the third or below stanine (sp) on the CTBS and I have a hard time keeping them up with the rest of the class.
ricola1650 - so with rr it is just on specialist working with one child at a time but for how long each day?
ginny - one is taken about snack time
Mary/PA - 5thgrade, I can't really help you with this as my situation is so different. I've never worked with 5th graders since I student taught
5thgrteacher - I'm not lucky enough to have my kids pulled at a convienent time
ginny - if the children miss something important, the teachers have them do the work in a center or sometimes we can switch kid's times
ginny - one on one, 30 minutes a day, every day
5thgrteacher - I guess I was thinking that when first graders are pulled for the extra help there is a system used to keep them with the other students. What I'm reading is they pull them during non academic time
Mary/PA - I have to have one child a day miss recess - if I didn't do this, there would be no way that I could get them all in, I also have to work around special classes like music, art, library, and PE
5thgrteacher - That is conciderate...my school doesn't think like that
DeniseRI - schedules are very difficult to work around
ginny - sometimes it's academic time but the teachers work around it because the RR results are usually worth the extra effort
5thgrteacher - you aren't kidding
ginny - We can't pull from specials either -- or reading
Mary/PA - 5thgrade, not always, if they miss out on something that must be made up, the teachers help them whenever they have a few minutes in the day
ginny - I'm in first grade classrooms doing guided reading during the reading slot
5thgrteacher - Not related to RR?
ginny - Mary, do you work with any grades besides first and RR
ginny - Half of my day is RR and the other half is reading specialist. I work with 2 first grades and a fourth
Gigi/MO - I pull from recess and library but I alternate my students so that they don't always miss!! i don't feel bad at all about takin
Mary/PA - Also, the Reading Recovery program for each child doesn't last all year, we get them out of the program as fast as we can
DeniseRI - wow, Ginny, lots to do!
ricola1650 - It will help the student is all subject areas if they are able to read the things present to them in that area, right?
5thgrteacher - I know this isn't about Reading Recovery but what remedial things do you do with your fourth graders?
5thgrteacher - Reading in the Content areas is very important
ginny - Literacy Centers, We're also doing Reader's Theater. Lots of discussion to get kids learning to talk about books
Mary/PA - ginny, I teach kindergarten in the mornings and RR in the afternoons
5thgrteacher - Do you participate in any comerical reading remedial programs like project READ or something like that?
ginny - We do have SOAR. Another reading teacher works with children who have comprehension problems
Mary/PA - I don't, 5thgrade
ricola1650 - so if they miss a little now then it will help them in the future
ginny - not that my kids don't have it. I just can't fit 5 days a week into 4th grade
5thgrteacher - We had SOAR (Accelarated reader) at my school. I hated it.
Mary/PA - Do you RR teachers have to make a tape for your TL when you what to discontinue a student?
ginny - SOAR is a comprehension program for 3-6 graders who are having comprehension problems - not for accelerated readers - I think it's Houghton Mifflin
ginny - We don't make a tape for our TL. We have another RR teacher in the building do the text level. We used to do the tape but no more
peachykeane - We don't have Reading Recovery at our school - any recommendations for how to help kids in need without a formal program?
ginny - Lucky you. I have to go BTG in January
DeniseRI - Mary are you required to tape?
5thgrteacher - Are there qualifications for a school to use RR. I guess I want to know is there a student population that RR works best with?
ginny - What part of PA. I'm near Saratoga, NY
ginny - RR was developed by Marie Clay for the lowest readers in danger of failing to learn to read
ginny - It may be used with any population of children at risk of failure.
Gigi/MO - Mary--I had to make a tape my training year but that is the only one I've ever made!! We were to have our CC class/Christmas party luncheon TODAY but it got cancelled!! We'll have to reschedule!!
DeniseRI - go to www.readingrecovery.org to learn more - great information
Mary/PA - Our new TL has us make a tape of the child reading a familiar book and another RR teacher has to give ALL of the OS to the student
DeniseRI - I might see why you would want to listen to the tape if you're not present at the assessment
ginny - that sounds good but we end up giving the subtests ourselves because it's hard to free up another RR teacher unless we teach her child while she tests ours
Mary/PA - I'm in NW PA, just a little south of the lake
ginny - Oh, lake effect snow!!! Br-r-r-r
Mary/PA - ginny, that's what bothers me about doing it this new way - it takes too much time away from the other teacher's lessons
Gigi/MO - Mary--Do they tape the OS too?
Mary/PA - ginny, you got it
DeniseRI - why would other RR teachers be better to assess for discontinuing?
ginny - Our TL has so many RR teachers that she can't get around to us all. Only see her if we have a problem
ginny - Because we might lose our objectivity with our own kids
Mary/PA - No, just the child reading a familiar book - I guess the TL wants to hear the fluency of the child's reading
ginny - I'm really working on fluency this year
DeniseRI - aren't we all
ginny - Saw Lucy Calkins in Albany on Friday. She said RR was the best program for at risk readers since sliced bread
Mary/PA - Same thing here, they are looking for someone to send to OSU to train to be a TL
Mary/PA - We need another one
DeniseRI - you're experienced, though
ginny - you're always learning ALWAYS
ginny - Do you have other RR teachers in your school
Mary/PA - Yes, we are always leaning
DeniseRI - have to get them in from other schools in the district
ginny - our school is at full implementation
Gigi/MO - I saw Lucy Calkins at the Dallas RR conference in Nov.!! I heard about 20 min. of her speech and it was very good!!
Mary/PA - This is the first year that we have another RRT in each building - this is my 8th year - for 7 years I was the only one
ginny - how good is your K program?
Mary/PA - We are really going to see the effects of the program now
DeniseRI - wow, Mary, how does it feel to have some help?
ginny - Lucy had some very powerful things to say
ginny - related to K program
DeniseRI - Keynote at Northeast RR was Candy Boyd - powerful speaker
ginny - said you should even use Level 1s in K until the children can do a retelling that sounds like reading to a very familiar book, they can read their own writing and pick out some words in print
ginny - Lucy said that
Gigi/MO - I've just changed TL this year!! The one I've had for 4 years had us give everything on the OS except the Text level but the one I have now I think someone else has to do it all!! (or is supposed to!)
ginny - more easily said than done
Mary/PA - Great! When you're the only RRT and you take the lowest 4, you know how rough that can be, now we tood the lowest 8 and divided them up between us - having only 2 of the lowest of the low makes a big difference
DeniseRI - sure is difficult to accomplish
ginny - We drove over to Springfield from Albany and arrived too late to hear Candy. Heard she was awesome
DeniseRI - sure helps with that for you Mary! Good for you
ginny - Do you take kids with severe artic problems
DeniseRI - Yes, Ginny, she was - hear her if you ever have the chance
Mary/PA - Yes, ginny, we take them no matter what
ginny - one of my first rounders was new to the school. I was in lessons before we got her records and it turned out she had been labeled in her other school
DeniseRI - sure, I take all kinds!! No one excluded!!
DeniseRI - Lots of English Language Learners
ginny - Our TL has suggested that we hold off until second round for the language kids but I took them anyway.
Gigi/MO - Candy Dawson-Boyd was also in Dallas at the RR conf. in Nov!! She was awesome!! She'd get tickled with herself!! She made you cry and laugh!!
DeniseRI - and you'll help her to drop that label
Mary/PA - I have one this round who has a very bad artic, problem. He is very hard to understand, but he has good language and is making good progress - I don't suppose that makes good sense to some folks
ginny - Spending more time this year helping them decide where to feel the sounds -- mirrors are helpful - also the PVC phone
DeniseRI - makes sense, Mary. He's been exposed to great literature and language - so meaning and structure may not be problematic areas?
ginny - yes, it does. It is the language problem that really makes it difficult
Mary/PA - The program really helps those language kids - they'd be even farther behind if you wait until 2nd round, don't you think?
ginny - problem is, the district is looking at results.
DeniseRI - I agree. Although they're much harder to get along. Lots of supportive orientations and repeating of structures and language development
ginny - sat with our L.A. supervisor at Lucy Calkins. Put in a plug for strengthening our K program
Mary/PA - Well, I have to go soon, do any of you have any suggestions about a topic for our next meeting?
DeniseRI - great place to start, Ginny!
ginny - in NZ., the children come to RR after a year of good instruction
DeniseRI - some of them have all the luck!!
ginny - hmm - thinking -- that's what my Samson says when he's stuck
DeniseRI - will people be around discontinuing time for the next meet?
Mary/PA - I firmly believe that all Kindergarten teachers should be trained RR Teachers - it makes a big difference - rough on the individual teacher's schedule, but great for the children's first good teaching
Gigi/MO - Anything is fine with me!! You always do a good job, Mary!!
ginny - it's my first time, what do you usually talk about
DeniseRI - yes, Mary, thanks for your hospitality!!
ginny - Yes, I definitely agree. In NZ all K and 1st teachers are trained in RR
DeniseRI - ditto Mary, or at least get some guided reading going
ginny - Mary, you choose the topic, How about processing in the higher levels
Mary/PA - Denise, I would think so, or at least close to it
ginny - when is the next meeting
DeniseRI - I'm not sure about the all being trained in RR - they are all trained with running records and observation survey out of college
DeniseRI - a topic to think about, then...
ginny - Could be wrong - thought Maureen on the list said that.
DeniseRI - ginny's sounds good too!
Mary/PA - We've talked about just about everything there is - you can see the transcripts in the archives - http://teachers.net/archive/index.html
Gigi/MO - Something about discontinuing would probably be good, Mary!!
ginny - what was tonights' topic
DeniseRI - we'd have to ask any NZ expert - didn't someone just join the email group?
ginny - Well, I work with Peter Johnston at Suny Albany
Gigi/MO - I don't think it would hurt to repeat topics either!! I always learn (or confirm) even if I've heard it before!!
ginny - He studied under Marie
Mary/PA - I don't know, the next meeting day would be the 25th, but I doubt that we'll meet on that day, so maybe not until Jan. 8th
DeniseRI - WOW ginny - heard and met him in Rhode Island last month - great!!
DeniseRI - he might be one to ask
ginny - He's wonderful.Thought he said that way back in my master's work.
Mary/PA - We didn't have a topic for tonight
ginny - I find that teaching Running Records to graduate level students in the basic courses doesn't always transfer
DeniseRI - it's quite possible
Mary/PA - I forgot to ask the group last time
ginny - They're more attuned to assessment when they get into our practicums for reading certification
DeniseRI - sure....what about for undergraduates?
Mary/PA - Gigi, OK we can discuss Discontinuing next time, whenever that will be
ginny - Hm, don't think I'll be talking RR on Dec 25
DeniseRI - BTW happy holidays to all
ginny - I don't know about undergrads - my graduate students don't see the value of it right now.
DeniseRI - why is that do you think?
Gigi/MO - What is BTW, Denise?
Mary/PA - Thanks for coming this evening, I really have to go now - watch the schedule for the next meeting - http://www.teachers.net/chatroom/ - that's the URL for a list of the meetings
ginny - It's an interesting mix of people. First course in graduate school. Some don't know much about reading
ginny - Some are overwhelmed with teacing and taking grad courses
DeniseRI - Thank youMary!!!
Mary/PA - By The Way = BTW
Gigi/MO - Sounds good, Mary!! Hopefully I'll have some up there by then!!
ginny - IN NY you have to get a masters for permanent certification.
ginny - Nite Mary and thanks
Mary/PA - Happy Holidays to you too, Denise
DeniseRI - thanks again, Mary for helping me with BTW
Mary/PA - Thanks again, and good night
ginny - Nite all
Gigi/MO - Bye, Mary!! Thanks!! BTW--Happy Holidays!!
ginny - Merry Christmas
DeniseRI - does that mean we have to leave?
ginny - Probably not
DeniseRI - I'll stay for a bit...either of you?
Gigi/MO - Denise--No!! We can keep on talking, I think!! I have with some others before!!
DeniseRI - phew, I was worried I'd have to stop!!
ginny - ;;
Gigi/MO - I really need to go make some phone calls but......
DeniseRI - we were talking about undergrad/graduate assessment preparation....
ginny - Can't get RR teachers to stop talking 'RR
ginny - Oh, are you in Central Time zone out there
DeniseRI - I'll not stay long, sleep would be nice!!
ginny - Yes, I'm teaching Teaching Reading in the Elementary School at Sunya. It's the first course in the graduate program
ginny - Some of the students haven't moved much beyond undergraduate attitudes. It's been challenging
Gigi/MO - We can always talk about something!! I'm in CT zone. I'm glad to hear that some of RR is getting into the colleges!!
DeniseRI - you answered the ? I just typed....have you taught this course before?
ginny - Yes, I taught it on an undergraduate level and also graduate
DeniseRI - isn't it nice to hear!!
Gigi/MO - Do you teach night classes and do RR during the day?
ginny - SUNY Albany has been focused on Clay since at least 1985 for its elementary preparation
ginny - Clay's strategies are used in our Literacy Lab - the last practicum for preparing reading teachers
DeniseRI - we should send all teachers there!!
ginny - Yes, I teach one grad class at night. Not doing it next semester - very tiring
ginny -
Gigi/MO - WOW!! How exciting!! I think there are many graduates that probably have NEVER heard of Marie Clay!!
ginny - Funny, never knew how lucky I was to go to SUNYA. I went there because it was 20 minutes away and the tuition was cheap - relatively
DeniseRI - too bad for them!! She is such an intelligent woman!
ginny - Have you heard Mary Fried or Barbara Watson speak?
DeniseRI - one's enough right??
ginny - right
DeniseRI - wouldn't miss either, have you?
Gigi/MO - Yes! I've heard both of them!! They are very good!!
ginny - Gigi, was your TL trained at Columbus?
ginny - Both spoke at Northeast. Mary was awesome. Barbara was great in her first and her second was uncharacteristically disorganized
DeniseRI - I missed the second - was that her presentation to a smaller group?
Gigi/MO - No. The TL I trained under and was with up until this year trained at Univ. of IL and the one I'm with this year trained in ARKANSAS with Linda Dorn!!
ginny - no, it was a large group. Other teachers felt the same.
ginny - Our TL was trained at NYU
ginny - Under Trika Smith Bourke and Jane Ashdown
Gigi/MO - Why did you ask?
ginny - Just curious since you're in that part of the country and RR started in the US at Columbus
Gigi/MO - I think I've seen both of those names at conferences before!!
DeniseRI - was the speech at the early literacy institute?
ginny - well, sort of in that part of the country
ginny - No, it was the last session on the last day of the RR conference
DeniseRI - Barbara is a very knowledgeable woman and exciting to work with
ginny - She is so energetic. And usually so on point
DeniseRI - maybe I wasn't paying attention
DeniseRI - she could have been having a bad day
ginny - Who knows? Springfield was a bit disorganized. Yes, she might have had jet lag. She's a busy woman
DeniseRI - absolutely!
ginny - Which part are you saing absolutely to?
DeniseRI - about being busy..
DeniseRI - did you find it disorganized?
ginny - I can definitely empathize with that
ginny - In fact, I think I'm going t close my baby browns
ginny - 6 A.M. arrives early
DeniseRI - I'll be going too...see you both again I hope
ginny - Nite Denise and Gigi if you're still there
DeniseRI - good night and thanks for the chat!
Gigi/MO - I'll go to because I'm trying to talk on the phone too!!
