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Ran/TN - Hi everyone, welcome to tonght's Special ed meeting, the topic for tonight is "Inclusion". I would like everyone to share how you are doing inclusion in your school.
J. Bean - we are encouraged to do inclusion but district not willing to fund
max - inclusion is a "big" word
J. Bean - aren't there four models? something like that
thumtak - Does inclusion mean you should have support from SE people?
TeachNS - I have an Austic child in my class.
max - Ran, how would you define inclusion?
Ran/TN - Yes support in some form is usually necessary.
kinderkate - Teach - what grade, how many other students, what kind of support (aide, etc)]
Ran/TN - Inclusion is special needs students participateing either full or part time in a regular classroom with some form of support.
TeachNS - I teach Pre-K. he has a support teacher with him at all times. He is doing nicely.
TeachNS - I have 22 children in my class.
Ran/TN - Support could me team teaching with a special ed teacher, consultation, or and aide.
max - By participation, do you mean to the extent that identified student is able to participate, as guided by an IEP?
Ran/TN - Yes that student should participate as much as possible per his/her ability.
kinderkate - Last year I had a boy with cerebral palsy in my class. He can walk and hold a pencil , but his speech is barely understandable. He came to my class for part of the day - not during the literacy block, however. His behavior was much better in my class than in the spec ed class. I think he got away with more there.
kinderkate - It was a good experience for him and my class. However, I had no added support for him, so we limited the time that he stayed.
max - Ran, I teach sp ed; have for about 8 years; 17 years reg prior to
TeachNS - That could be kinderkate. I expect my autistic child to do everything the other children are doing.
Ran/TN - Kinderkate, If he can write ok let him do as much of the writing as possible.
max - i work at a center school for seriously emotionally disturbed students, I teach sixth grade
TeachNS - I had a child with Downs for two years. I only had support for her about an hour or two a week.
max - our school wide discipline wywtem is designed to allow students to earn mainstream classes
kinderkate - I really thought my student could do more than what was expected - just wasn't able to communicate. But I had no special training to help him academically.
TeachNS - max, sounds interesting.
Ruthie - I have 3 autistic children and are are included in the reg. room and can tell a BIG diff. in the other children that have grown up with them, they seem more caring and accepting of all people regardless of disability
Ran/TN - If you have an aide let them help you do any of the modifications needed.
max - three of my students (out of 8) were mainstreaming when I moved into the position in Feb. They went to another campus 1, 2 or 3 days a week for the day
TeachNS - Ruthie, in my classroom, the other children have all excepted my autistic child. They will even help him when needed.
Ran/TN - Having some of his peer help him is a great idea.
Ruthie - our school loves our autistic children and will go out of their way to help, they are great
max - I had a cerebal palsey child in my regular ed class when I taught reg ed, also a death child
TeachNS - Sounds nice Ruthie.
Ran/TN - You might even assign a couple of peer tutor/aide to help him.
kinderkate - I agree Ruthie, at our school we have several special ed classes including a pre-school group. As well we have an adult volunteer who went to the school. He experienced brain damage as a teen and is marginally retarded. He does many jobs around the school and all the teachers, students etc love him. I think it is important to remember that these lovable little kids grow up but still need a place in our society.
Ran/TN - Assigning peer aides is another good way to provide support for inclusion.
Ruthie - I also have a CP girl in a wheelchair. Our kids really adapt, the K teacher even keeps a little wheelchair in her room, this gives kids a chance to experience their world, and in turn reduces staring
max - the cerebal palsey child was totally dependent upon his electric wheel chair, a lap top computer and one hand he had control over; he typed one finger, very intelligent
TeachNS - The children in my class try to play with my autistic child. He will watch them but usually doesn't play. He does love to chase them outside on the playground.
Ran/TN - In most instances the regular students get as much or more from the inclusion experience than the spedial needs studen.
max - the students in my middle school classroom all accepted the CP child, he was very motivated, I love to look at the photos of the school dance with him out on the dance floor in the electric wheel chair!
TeachNS - Great idea Ruthie.
kinderkate - I liked having these children with special needs in my class but feel uncomfortable with my accountability for their academics. I feel we need more support in that area. Does anyone get special training, etc, when a child is mainstreamed?
Ruthie - I think schools need to involve adults like that, they can show the children a lot of love, I have 1 246lb. autistic boy in the 6th grade and the K kids love to play with him, and let him read to them, this could continue
Ruthie - Our school sends teachers to workshops and brings in people to observe them to give helpful hints
max - often special needs children are very good working with younger children, they "watch over" them
Ran/TN - Kate, Seek help from your special ed teacher i am sure they would be glad to assist you in anyway.
TeachNS - My school is very small. Two classrooms - preschool and kindergarten. It is very hard to get out to go to conf.
Ruthie - you are sooo right max, i see that a lot
kinderkate - Although our special ed teachers are very cooperative, I'm afraid they are not very experienced. At our school at least there is a big turnover in that area.
Ran/TN - Also be sure you have a copy of each special needs students' Iep that is in your class.
max - our state has consultation teachers that are support teachers to the kids and their regular ed teachers, big case loads, however
TeachNS - We do have several IU teachers who come into our classrooms to work with speech and developmentally delayed children
max - very few of our special ed teachers are in field as well!! Lots of first year teachers, out of field
Ruthie - bring in people from different agencies we have a T/TAC center at VA. Tech that goes all over Va and will offer help, may want to check with agencies like that Teach
kinderkate - At any of your schools is special consideration given to teachers who have these mainstreamed students. For example do they have fewer students, etc?
max - very individualized per specific needs in my area
TeachNS - I may do that Ruthie.
max - my SED students that are mainstreamed into middle school for the day--princiipal and teacher are allowed to find the best fit for student, even if it is an out of zone school
Ruthie - Ours also offer free material to check out what area are you in Teach
Ran/TN - Here are some related web sites for you. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/olympus/2967 or http://www.quasar.ualberta.ca/ddc/incl/raymond.html or http://www2.lycoming.edu/~mcgaaro/aaron.html
TeachNS - I have a child who is coming from an abused situation. She has some behavior control problems. She is 5. Father won't take her for help. IU won't pick her up because she is not delayed in any area except behavior. Any suggestions?
kinderkate - Max - I applaud you. To me SED students are the most difficult. I will be honest and say that this is one time that I would protest a placement.
TeachNS - I am in PA.
Ruthie - do you suspect any emotional disturbances? Is it that severe?
max - if she has signs of abuse on her (bruises, etc) you are required to call in to the abuse line; sometimes that will force services
TeachNS - Yes I do Ruthie. She is safe now, but not dealing with the past.
kinderkate - Teach if child is coming from an abusing situation and father won't take her for help makes me wonder if father is the abuser.
Ran/TN - Several systems have behavior mod classrooms. Could she qualify for placement in one of them.
TeachNS - She was taken away from the mother for abuse and given to the father. Father took her once. Was told to lock her in her room. That is why he won't go now.
max - kinderkate, reason I am interested in tonite: not many SED students need to be put into classroom inclusion, it is too difficult and often a failing experience for them; perhaps they are better served in a community group setting with non disable peers
kinderkate - Explain more, max. A group home, or group social activities?
max - actually, I am kinda on the dad's wave length!!! lock her in ...
kinderkate - Ran - that is interesting. I have never heard of behavior mod classrooms. Please explain.
max - would all depend on what the child would be most successful in Kinderkate, then work toward les restrictive
TeachNS - Max, the doc told him to lock her in her room. He got mad at the doc.
Ran/TN - I teach at an aternative school. this is wher students that are suspended from their home shcool may go to continue their education. It requires suppending the student before qualifing.
max - I think it is admirable when coaches will keep one of my kids on a little league team; the child needs someone there to assist and monitor at first
kinderkate - Max, you are saying keep the child in special classes but include him in other kinds of groups?
max - emotionally handicapped classrooms are mostly focused on behavioral modification
TeachNS - Ran, I am from a small town There is not alot around here for troubled children.
Ran/TN - Behavior mod classrooms have a teacher and at least one maybe two aides. They are usually trained in special behavior modification techniques.
kinderkate - And max these classes are significantly smaller than regular and have more adults?
max - only if the child can't survive in the regular ed classes, I teach very disturbed children; they lack the internal self-talk and control when they get angry; they often meet failure
TeachNS - Max, Are these classrooms by grade level or are grade levels mixed?
Ran/TN - The focus is on training the student to be able to control and cope with his/her behavior.
max - I have worked in two districts this year; the first I was ther nearly 6 years; my class size was between 3 and 6 students, always one assistant and often one or two special case assistants
TeachNS - Do these children ever enter college?
Ran/TN - They are usually mixed but maybe divided by upper and lower grades.
Ran/TN - You might have three or four different grade levels in a behavior mod classroom.
max - my present class is in a SED center school; I have 8 students and one assistant; the program is designed around an entire team approach to modify behavior (security guard, timeout rooms, opportunity lab (in school suspension by the period: physical aggression is automatic 4 periods
max - i teach all sixth graders now; for the past six years I had a spread of K-6
Ran/TN - Yes Many of them do go on to college. I have know a few adhd students and ld students to attend the university wherei was.
kinderkate - Max, I like you idea of having SED children included in activities in and out of school that are not the core subjects. During the core subjects teachers are under too much pressure as it is for success of students to add these special problems.
max - my former CP student is in college now, quite a top notch one at that!
max - lot of research supports mentors as being one of the most successful interventions for my population of students
max - my students who were mainstreamed from my present school are all pulled from it right now, makes me feel terrible
kinderkate - Max, many CP students are very misunderstood. Just because communication is difficult and most don't want to take the time to try to understand these kids, some think they are not intelligent. Many have only physical disabilities and not menta.
kinderkate - What happened, max?
max - disabilities spreads over such a wide area!!
Ran/TN - Before anyone else leaves, I want to let you know that our next meeting will be about IEP's. There has been alot of discussion on the mailring concernig the use of comperized IEP programs.
max - SED students a characterized as not being able to maintain a long time meaningful relationship with peers or adults; they blow real easily
max - our distric is going to the computerized IEPs next year, they are working lke crazy to get them ready/programed!
Ran/TN - Kate how are they doing inclusion in your school?
kinderkate - where are you max?
max - kinderkate, I came in and once the honeymoom period was over, their behaviors pivioted; they didn't maintain level and were dropped; hence had to be pulled. they have to work to gain back the opportunity. It is sooo hard
Ran/TN - Did we answer all your questions about behavior mod classes?
Ran/TN - Hi meghan welcome to our monthly Special ed meeting.
kinderkate - From what I see, inclusion is done very informally. At the beginning of the school year teachers are given a questioneer asking what they would be willing to do. I always said that I would be willing to discuss it with the special ed teacher. That way I discussed it with the spec ed teacher and took on only what I thought I ( and the child ) could handle. I am not in the classroom now so I don't really know how it is being handled this year.
Meghan - Thanks for the Welcome! Max - we've been using computerized IEP's for a while and it's great!
max - in my old school we were able to mainstream our kids into a willing regular ed classroom; presently my students go to another campus, but still into a sp ed class, still don't have the appropriate role models as in regular classes
Ran/TN - Lets not get off the subject. We will save comperized IEP's for next month's meeting.
max - such a shame you are out of the classroom kinderkate, kids need you
Ran/TN - Anyone have any more comments about inclusion?
max - what do you see being don to assist the regular ed teachers now that they are getting more and more special ed kids assigned to them; I know they are frustrated
kinderkate - But, max, this has to be so difficult for the regular ed teacher who has the responsibility of the education of the entire class and probably has several behavior problems anyway. Of course the upper grades scare me anyway as I am k/l/ reading recovery and have not had much experience higher.
Ran/TN - The most difficult part of doing inclusion is getting good regular teachers to particpate.
max - how do we accomplish that Ran, I wish they would get a supplement!!! at least to get the idea accepted!
Ran/TN - I think that any special ed teacher would be very willing to help any willing regular teacher.
Meghan - Max, that is frustrating for the regular and special educators. Often I feel that it is left to the special educator to educate the regular educator in special education content.
max - a really strong teacher, teaching to many modalities, often has very little lproblem with sp ed students; I think its a gift
Meghan - Some regular ed. teachers are trully special and should be held on to.
max - there is so much pressure on the reg ed teachers to test out on state standards, etc
Ran/TN - By those of us who are special ed techers to be there when the regular teacher needs us and by providing as much support as possible.
max - I don't have any time to talk to the teachers; I don't have but their special area (30 min. at 8:35 am) away from my students all day
Lanie - Can anyone tell me how they use play in their classrooms??
kinderkate - I agree max, and feel that the one thing that would encourage reg ed teachers to take the risk would be an offer of more adult help in the classroom.
max - I have a "Play and Learn" period in my room (learn to treat others nicely!) usually 30 minutes daily
kinderkate - What grade Lanie?
Lanie - that sounds wonderful!!
Lanie - kindergarten
Meghan - Max - I understand the scheduling dilema. At a school I was previosly at, they scheduled special area classes for the special educators and their inclusion partners at the same time to allow for easier collaboration. It was wonderful!
Ran/TN - The special ed teacher could help by doing some of the meterials modificationa and testing modefications for the regular teacher.
max - some of our sp ed students have a special case assistant assigned to them; I have three articles here about how it really even more seprates the sp needs child; our district is now assigning the assistant to the "room" usually for physically impaired
max - some of our teachers teaching one grade level did that, and yes, it was great!
max - our sp ed teacher do modify the material, also much care is taken to put the sp ed students into the best fit for their strengths
kinderkate - In K/1, lanie, I was very careful when teaching kids to play games. I would always have the winners say "good game" to the losers, and the losers say"congratulations" to the winners. Many times kids don't know what to say and say the wrong things instead.
max - like they go to PE, Art, social studies, science--the hands on allowing movement, etc
Ran/TN - Next month's meeting will be held here on Thursday, May 6th at 9:00pm EDT. the topic will be "IEP's Computervs handwritten."
max - that is so true kinderkate
kinderkate - YES - to the room, max, that way both child and teacher is assisted. And no one feels out of place.
max - and teacher gets a little perk!
max - ran, computerized as long as someone who doesn't type in all sorts of extra letters like me!!
Ran/TN - I have the some problem max.
kinderkate - Also those subjects are the ones that the special needs kids may be more successful at AND the teacher is not as pressured to get results.
Ran/TN - Thank you for comming tonight. I hope we all have learned some new ways of doing inclusion and some resourses for learning more.
Ran/TN - Good night!
