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Wendy - I am the mother of an autistic child
Angela - I have a six year old male in my class who has not officially been diagnosed
mickie - Have you tried the fasting and diet for autisitic children
Angela - Tell me more about the fasting and diet mickie
Wendy - No, but I do use some B-complex and other supplements
mickie - I had an autistic child in my first grade class five years ago. His mother sent him to the Seattle area for two weeks and went through a cleansing process. He was restricted from eating any processed foods, milk products...etc.
Angela - And did this cleansing have any sort of effect on him?
mickie - We could see a big difference in his behavior. He was so much more settled and able to take the stressers of the day once he was following the diet. He could understand us so much better
mickie - He would go to his dad's on the weekends and sometimes his dad would not follow the diet and we could tell from his behavior. IT would be awful when he wasn't on the diet
Angela - Really! I have a difficult time even getting my student to eat lunch.
Wendy - Aubrey does have a problem with chocolate in the form of candy...not in cakes, but it makes her extremely irritable, so we restrict her access to it, especially at night
mickie - This boy would fixate and want to eat certain things. Sometimes eat things that you weren't supposed to too like rocks
mickie - This little boy had to stay away from dairy products completely.
Angela - Wendy, has she ever gone through a period when she refused to eat in certain environments? If so, what helped?
Beth Bruno - Hello everyone. I'm a school psychologist from CT
Nancy - hello everyone, I am a special education teacher, in KY
Wendy - She used to do that all the time...Aubrey was quite a challenge.....Hi Beth, nice to hear from you again!
kAREN - any place to get more info on diet
Beth Bruno - We have an autistic boy in a second grade class who tries to run outside whenever he gets a chance.
Beth Bruno - Any suggestions?
kAREN - special ed teacher from ohio
Nancy - I have several students that are not labeled autistic, but one has angelman syndrome which has a lot of autistic tendencies, and another isn't labeled as of yet
Angela - This might sound silly, but practical, put a baby gate on the door to the classroom.
Nancy - Angela I was told I could not do that
Wendy - Beth, Aubrey almost got killed from getting away....do you know what he likes the most in the world, Beth? Can you use that as a motivation to stay in the room? What is his level of functioning
Nancy - fire hazard
Addie k/mo - wouldn't he probably just climb over it, if a door won't keep him in?
Beth Bruno - Yes, I think we need to figure out what motivates him to stay with the group. I think he's searching for less stimulation.
Angela - I have to wonder why? The student could be in danger if he darted far enough away before anyone couldn't catch him. Our students do not climb over them.
Wendy - Addie, autistic children can find their way out of everything....the only way I kept Aubrey in was to make my house a fortress....
Nancy - I have one who climbed over to get a ball, then came back
Mae - we have used a variety of techniques for elopment... baby gates, door alrms.. at least it allows you to notice, and react quicker
Wendy - Now, though, I can trust her to stay in the house alone while I go pick up my other daughter
Addie k/mo - wendy, how old is she?
kAREN - door alarm might work to startle also
Wendy - will be 11 on the 12th of december
Angela - What do any of you do with your students when they begin to display aggressive tendencies. Time outs aren't working.
kAREN - i need help too angela
Wendy - Karen, find a door alarm that sounds like a burglar alarm, and perhaps use that as reinforcement
Addie k/mo - i had a k student with aspergers a couple of years ago. we used "social stories" to help him learn and rehearse appropriate behaviors.
Angela - What kind of social stories Addie?
Nancy - Addie you are right, depending on level of understanding those social stories can work well
Mae - behaviors serve a purpose and function.. first determine the function before you try to devlop a program
Wendy - Beth, I think a favorite toy in the hands of the group moderator might help, but also, he may just need a little time out to regroup
Addie k/mo - like if he wanted the computer to himself and someone was using it, his aide and he would write a story something like this: c wants to use the computer himself. m is already using the computer. c has two choices. he may wait until the computer is free or he may ask m if they can share. he may not hit. he may not scream. when c wants to use the computer and m is using it, he has two choices.
Addie k/mo - then we would save all these stories and they would be reread. he was very high functioning intellectually.
Angela - My student is very keen and smart also. He is receptively smart, but delayed in expressing himself.
Mae - there is a method to writing social stories.. there is a whole formula for writing the stories. i can't rmember the name of the person who wrote the book on social stories
Beth Bruno - Are any of you regular ed teachers with a mainstreamed autistic child. If so, how is it working out?
Addie k/mo - yes, i am not sure that the "choice" thing is in the book, but that is how his parents did it at home, so that is how we did it at school.
Wendy - I have the social story books, I can make the information available at another time
Angela - Does anyone else know of anywhere more information can be found on social story writing?
Addie k/mo - beth, that was my situation and it worked out really well. the student had a full time aide to help with his emotional/behavioral needs as they came up.
Mae - what is the incidence of Autism in your programs? I work in a small county in Md, we have over 75 children under the age of 5 with a diagnosis of Autism Spectrum
arley - i just did a search on amazon
arley - there is a book called The New Social Stories by Carol Gray.. sound familliar to anyone?.
Beth Bruno - Autism is quite rare where I am, but there are several diagnoses with similar behaviors.
pickle - Search Sumlin Social Stories. They are similar to Carol Grays but they are already written. You can find them in the Me-List archives. I use them. They are great!
Wendy - The books are "The Social Story Books" by Jenison Public Schools, Jenison, Michigan....
Addie k/mo - in our school (750 kids) we have just this one child. he is in second grade now and has really progressed. needs much less time with an aide.
Mae - what startegies and techniques are people using to teach children with autism?
pickle - Mae, 75 children is extremely high. The incidence is reported to be 5 in 10,000 but it is more like 1 in 500.
Wendy - Mae,that all depends on the kid....what is the presentation of the kid in question?
arley - My 2nd grader has PDD but spends most of his day in my learning center- when he's in the 2nd grade he is terrible
arley - he hides under his desk, carries a teddy bear, refuses to do work etc... I don't get any of that in my room. I give him "the look" and he cooperates
Beth Bruno - How do you involve the other children in helping an autistic child socialize more calmly and comfortably?
arley - he just can't deal with everything
Mae - we have a lot of people who move into our county due to the programming that we provide. We are most definitely not over identifying. Good question Wendy.,. too many people think that it is a one size fits all treatment program. We use an eclectic approach combining incidental teaching, Developmentally apporpriate poractice, and wehn necessary, discrete trial
arley - well i also have a 4th grader- the other kids find it amusing to have her repeat things (swears etc) and do other things- we had the psychoogist go talk to the other classes
Mae - Beth, we use alot of social skills training.. scripted dramatic play scenarios'that is the nice thing about early intervention.. play is such an integral part of the curriculum
arley - she can occasionally be rude and i correct her and have her say things appropriatly, and have the others repeat things to her if they have been rude- it is hard, since they don't understand wht she acts wierd sometimes
Wendy - My thought is that he is just not yet ready for the inclusive classroom...Aubrey was segregated for 6 years to prepare her for reintroduction into regular school....the time she spent on the work they did with her has made her able to become a great member of the classroom, she is in the school band, is in the school play, is in girl scouts, played soccer and now basketball....etc
Wendy - Mae, I applaud you for that...I have seen too many cookie-cutter programs...then the blame is placed on the child...they can't do it
Beth Bruno - I think the autistic children who develop language fairly young have the best outcomes in regular classes
Angela - Mae, what do you mean by discrete trial?
Wendy - Beth, I agree, but they must also have the ability to endure the over-stimulating environment of a main-stream class
Mae - we always think the a good predictor of success are words before 3 years of age.. Angela, discrete trial applies principles of Applied Behavioral Analysis in a structured 1-1 teaching session
Beth Bruno - Yes, the level of stimulation and a child's coping skills for dealing with a lot of activity also has a lot to do with ability to adapt to a regular class.
Mae - anyone been to a good conference lately?
Wendy - Mae, I have been avoiding conferences lately
Mae - what's up , Wendy? I guess I feel like there has not been any new information in the field of autism... so I don't go to many either
Wendy - The last one I went to was hosted by people trying to sell us something, I don't need that, I need help.....I am a parent in Connecticut
Wendy - My daughter was diagnosed as so severely autistic, that it was suggested that I put her away, forget her, and have more children
Mae - how old is your child. wendy, and when did you first suspect autism?
Mae - we have seen children make tremendous gains.. children we never expected to go as far as they have. It is rewarding to see that happen
Wendy - going on 11, and she was diagnosed at 2 and a half...using the CHAT - checklist for autism in toddlers, we would have been able to tell at 10 months
Mae - we love the CHAT.. I don't know, the earliest we have identified a child is 15 months..
Wendy - Aubrey was very obvious in retrospect, but we still got her young
Janet - Wendy, tell us about your daughter...or did I miss that?
SusanB - I have a student who I think has some type of autism. Could we discuss her?
Mae - tell me about her Susan
Wendy - My daughter is almost 11, and now in regular school in 4th grade. She had no speech at diagnosis, and was completely humanly non-functional, that we were told there was no hope. She is in regular school, speaks, is in the school band playing flute, is in the school play, girl scouts, etc......she is still odd, but functioning at a relatively normal level
Wendy - I would love to hear about her, Susan
Janet - That is so great! :)
SusanB - Well, Mae, she's in my 2nd grade. Last year was in a language delay class. Parents from the Philipines
Wendy - Thanks, Janet.....it's been a lot of work, but is paying off
SusanB - When she speaks, it's one word only
SusanB - she writes, it doesn't make any sense
SusanB - She has perfect handwriting and spelling
SusanB - perfect
SusanB - we keep trying to get her to speak in sentences
Wendy - How does she handle the class room?
Ms. Jarrin - Does anyone know of a good autism website that is loaded with information??
SusanB - she's making progress but i'm still stumped by her
SusanB - loving and comes up and repeatedly kisses my cheek
Janet - I'm sure it has been a lot of work, Wendy. I work with a second grader who has some symptoms of autism.
SusanB - but just can't communicate
SusanB - confused about the possible esl component
Wendy - I am working on creating one, but have had little time of late.....
Mae - how does she relate to the other students?
SusanB - parents speak Eng. but it's a second language
SusanB - they take her under their wings
SusanB - treat her like a little doll (which she is)
SusanB - i don't know what else to try with her
SusanB - the speech therapist thinks there's an autism component
Wendy - tell me more about her presentation
SusanB - she's a happy adorable 8 year old, she loves to draw she seems happy
Mae - are you looking for ideas? have you read the Koegel? How about Barry Prizant? Both arr language paradigms for children with autism
SusanB - i haven't read them, but i'll bet the speech teacher has
SusanB - would you suggest i do read them, because i'll do whatever I can to help her
Wendy - Yes
Wendy - does she interact with any other children?
Mae - have you tried using her wirtten language as a way to express herslef? She arites, and reads the written product to the class.. how about scripeted play scenarios.. play opporuntiites with one or two children.. The adult prompts the "typical" children to elicit language
SusanB - her writing starts on topic but goes off into totally unintelligible places
SusanB - she works one on one with the reading specialist
SusanB - for an hour a day
SusanB - she tries to draw out intelligible responses
SusanB - i am becoming very frustrated because when i ask her questions, her responses are coming from a very strange place which i don't understand!!
SusanB - she really never interacts with me or other teachers and students in the room
SusanB - i've never seen this before and don't really know what steps to take
Wendy - I would suggest going from the other direction.....trying to look into what is of interest to her, and using that....
SusanB - i have trouble finding out anything about her really
SusanB - i would love to do as u suggest, wendy, but it's just impossible
Sam - Yes, I have heard that that works.
Wendy - to access the rest of her mind.....it sounds like she needs a lot of one-on-one in all areas.....are her parents of any help in terms of what you could use
SusanB - she is definitely an enigma to me and the rest of my team
SusanB - her parents are caring loving people, but they know she has problems and don't really know how to help her
SusanB - and the language barrier is there too
Wendy - Sam, that is how we got through to our daughter.....not looking for what I wanted out of her, but looking at what she is, and showing her that we want to be a part of that.....
SusanB - have philipino translators at our school
SusanB - that makes sense wendy, a lot of sense, but i don't know how to get to what she is
Wendy - Is there a favorite toy you've seen her with, or a kind of food or drink?
SusanB - hmmm...no toys in school...and haven't watched her in the cafeteria
SusanB - but maybe i should
Sam - My Grandson is like that -- we finally got him talking and laughing by imitating the toilet flushing sounds that he makes. It seemed to impress him that we were doing what he liked.
SusanB - that kind of thing would work with her, sam
Wendy - perhaps you could try to introduce things one at a time to her, in a controled setting, and see what lights her up.....with Aubrey it was bubbles.....
SusanB - hmmm....and then build on that
Wendy - SusanB - we used that to get her first words out of her, and have been going with that ever since
Wendy - A now high-functioning autistic child.....I do have a website that I am trying to work on (in my spare time) http://www.vankirk.org/, and she is almost 11
Bill - I am also the parent of an autistic child, four year old boy
teacherca - Hi Wendy. I am a high school teacher in a mainstream classroon and I have an autistic boy in there. He is very bright, but not successful at all at staying on task and completing his work
Wendy - She was never considered aspergers, but now, she functions much better then most aspergers children
Mariann - hello, I see some very good ideas, I teach in a cross categorical classroom at a high school level. I have many students with autism and various types of communication deficits. I use Boardmaker programs (pictures coupled with oral language and sign la
Sam - I am sorry -- but what is aspergers?
Bill - symbols coupled with some sign language seem to work well with my son
Wendy - Teacherca - I understand the predicament, as that was my daughter. I use some B-complex with my daughter to help calm her, and it seems to help her stay on task.....Aspergers is the term usually used for high-functioning autism
Bill - if i understand it correctly, aspergers is what was portrayed by the individual in the movie "rain man"
teacherca - I feel that this kid could stay on task if he were motivated to do so. I've seen him do it at the beginning of the year. It is a computer class. He was very interested at first and stayed on task pretty well.
Wendy - no problem....aspergers does have some differences from classic autism, the children usually have a high level of speech
Wendy - Rain Man is an example of aspergers, with a lot of classic features
Sam - My Grandson makes eye contact and tries to comunicate with my husband and I, but does not make eye contact with his parents very often. I was wondering why this was happening?
Wendy - teacherca - can you use the computer as a motivator.....if he does his work, he gets an extra 10 on the computer?
Wendy - Sam, that is classic symptom....I am guessing that you take care of him a good deal?
teacherca - It is a computer class. The whole time is spent on the computer. The problem is he does not do any of the work he is assigned. Mostly he just does tinkering which are not teaching the skills of the class
Sam - He traveled with us one summer but only see him a couple of times a month now as he lives in a different town.
bill - eye contact seems to be an on-again, off-again thing with my son
Sam - He gets excited whenever his parents tell him they are coming to see us.
Mayh - I have a friend whose little girl was just diagnosed with a mild form or autism
teacherca - -wendy- this students parents have made it pretty clear that they are most concerned about his social development and not his performance in class. From this he has learned that he does not get in trouble by playing with the other students and not doing any work
Wendy - the parents need to make him make eye contact when they tell him things, or are asking for a response to something.....bringing the finger from his eyes to theirs and at times, holding his face
teacherca - What do you think of this?
Sam - That is what they say my grandson has -- a mild case.
Mayh - when she was a baby she used to cry all the time and would always want to be held.....is that a common thing in autistic children.
Wendy - teacherca - class is life....if he can't function there properly, he can't get a job, he can't do much besides play on the playground
Mayh - I used to keep her a lot when she was a baby, and just sensed something wasn't right.....she was very limp also
bill - I have found that my son needs just as much dicipline as his 8 year old brother, maybe more, or he will mis-behave the same way, he realizes he can get away with it!
Wendy - teacherca - give them my website and tell them to contact me, I can try to straighten them out
Wendy - Mayh - my daughter used to cry all the time, but didn't want to be held.....there are different degrees, like there are all kinds of people
teacherca - I feel like this kid is very smart and learning to be very manipulative. Is this a realistic point of view?
Mayh - well thats what I thought but she just seemed like she was in some pain or something
Wendy - Mayh - not pain, probably confusion
Mayh - Wendy.... when did you notice that your daughter was having problems?
Mayh - even as a very young infant like 2 months?
Wendy - teacherca - yes......I think the kid is going to be a bigger problem then he was when he was little, because he will never understand
Mayh - she didn't walk until well after a year
bill - the first 3 months of my sons life., my wife and i spent arranging our schedule around his 15 minute naps and hour long screaming sessions, he had to be held, slept very little, and ate even less. thought we were gonna die!
teacherca - Mom seems educated about autism and wants to be innovative and diligent. I respect that about her. I just feel that the strategies aren't working like she thinks they will.
Mayh - bill that is a lot like Nicole was when she was a baby
Wendy - Mayh- yes, even at two months.....my daughter was odd from birth...she had tactile defensiveness, and hated clothing....
Wendy - Mayh - not unusual for any child
Sam - Our grandson did not cry a lot when he was a baby. He also was not a discipline problem.
Wendy - Bill....sounds like my life for two years, and she didn't sleep at night
bill - brad hates clothing now, at four, but only sheds it inside the house, thank god
Mayh - wow.....it just amazes me . We (other friends) kept sensing that something was wrong but we just didn't know how to tell the parents that we thought there was a problem
Mayh - cute bill....
Sam - He behaves well if alone with his sister and adults. He has problems on the playground at school and acts overwhelmed by the action and noice. Stands with his hands over his ears.
bill - yeah, except for the nature hikes!...lol
Wendy - teacherca - mom is missing the point....and not seeing what the real world will do to a non-compliant kid, who will not follow rules and instructions....
Wendy - Bill- Brad is a lot like Aubrey WAS
Wendy - Sam - he is not ready for the type of environment with too many children around
Sam - They do not send him out for recess anymore -- he gets to draw instead which is one of his joys in life. Is this a good solution?
Mayh - so is there any type of medication or diet control that can have an effect on the children's behavior/emotions?
bill - if they use his drawing as a reward for good behavior, it can be effective.
wiggs - when was your child diagnosed wendy? and by whom?
Wendy - Mayh - I use a combination of over-the-counter supplements with Aubrey....e-mail me if you would like a more detailed list, and the reasons for each - wvkirk@vankirk.org or wvkirk@snet.net
bill - sam mentioned that, but actually brad loves to draw, and also just to write his letters and numbers, knows the whole alphabet and counts upwards of seventy
wiggs - do you think that there is an increase in the incidence of autism ? or do you think we are just getting better at identifying these kids?
Wendy - wiggs - auybrey was diagnosed at 2 and a half at Yale Child Study Center
bill - i would have to say at least that we are better at identifying those individuals
Wendy - wiggs - I think our whole society is spending more time looking for problems then ever before, and I think that is why we see more cases....I am now convinced that I was autistic, but not as severely as Aubrey was
wiggs - i am asking all these questions because i am a speech language path and i am seeing such an increase in my caseload with children with autistic like behaviors
wiggs - wow Wendy !!! why do you think that?
wiggs - Wendy, is Aubrey in a general education setting?
Wendy - I had a lot of problems with social situations...I just didn't get it....so I spent a lot of time throughout my adolescence looking for people to model, and working on scripts for myself for conversations I might have, so I wouldn't make a fool of myself....it was not natural for me
Mayh - so wendy you think a person can overcome autism?
Wendy - Aubrey is NOW in a regular education setting...she spent six years in a special school
wiggs - social language and interaction the biggies for you then Wendy?
wiggs - full time general education? or some resource time with the Spec Ed teachers?
Wendy - yes....I see similarities in Aubrey now
Sam - Glad to hear that Wendy. We are seeing an improvement in our Grandson since he has been going to speech and special ed. classes for individual help.
Wendy - some resource time, but there is no special ed room in her school,. most is administered in the classroom utilizing her peers
Wendy - Mayh- overcome, perhaps not....work with, yes
Mayh - so they have special ed. teachers coming into the reg. classroom wendy?
wiggs - like peer coaching wendy? who trains the kids or prepares them for helping Aubrey? or does it require any extra coaching?
Patti - I have my first student who has been identified--with asperger's he seems to be like a lot of my typical, general ed students
Wendy - To all - I have to say that I find so many things about my daughter interesting, and fun to explore....it has taught me how most people learn, watching her work with the deficit of not having learned that way....she is charming, and the most endearing thing about her is that she is soooooo honest, and so much herself...not fake or created
Wendy - just kidding....I am my child's advocate, so I pride my self on being objective and knowing exactly what her strengths and weaknesses are
wiggs - do you think that gen education teachers and spec education teachers understand autism and the educational demands of it?
Wendy - Mayh...when it was time to integrate her into a regular school, it was my plan that the school used to transition her from a private school into the public, so, yes, I am active in her care....I am in the school at least a couple of times a week, etc
Wendy - Wiggs - some do, but very few I'm afraid...
Mayh - well Wiggs, I am an elem. reading speicialist in the public schools, and I spent about 4 years teaching rescource and another 7 in the reg. classroom....and I dont' think that we are well informed on autism
Wendy - wiggs - It is my mission, at least in my town, to convince them that if they spend money on the kids early, the kids will not be a burden on the town forever....I am working to prove that to them
Wendy - Mayh- and that is not your fault....I had a psych student tell me that in all the training, they spent one day on autism
wiggs - HEY Mayh,,,,, like I said, I am a speech-lang path and I think my training for dealing with autism was squat!! But I will say our cooperation is working to improve our understanding
Mayh - well I know it isn't my fault but autistic children in general are placed in a more structured program
wiggs - And I have, on my own attended many workshops and conferences, as well as network with others to increase my awareness and understanding so that i can meet my students needs
Wendy - that may only be necessary for a time...Aubrey is now functioning...and learning....in the less-structured setting of the mainstream class...it can work
Mayh - well I think that unless you specialize in teaching students with mild/severe learning difficulties.....you are not going to get much emphasis on each individual deficit
wiggs - i wish you the very best on your mission Wendy !!! i wish more parents took an active role in their child's education
bill - i am trying to learn as much as i can in order to help my son, but it is an uphill battle which i have to manufacture time to pursue.
wiggs - you will learn as you go Bill.......you will do great !!!
Mayh - no kidding huh wiggs....heck it is all I can do to get a parent to read a book with mine
wiggs - sad but true Mayh
Mayh - bill is a great dad.......he will be wonderful, brad is a very lucky little boy to have him
Wendy - I agree with you Mayh, and thanks wiggs for your support....I try to motivate parents......Bill...keep the faith in yourself
wiggs - Wendy do you advocate for any other children with special needs?
Wendy - I will advocate for anyone willing to put in an extra effort for the children
wiggs - good for you wendy !!! I am sure that you are in high demand !!!
Wendy - There are not as many parents willing to put in the time as you might think
Wendy - Bill is the exception...any help I can offer Bill, please let me know
bill - i appreciate that wendy, i am very active in my sons education, as is my wife, but we are in the process of splitting up, and brads situation worries me a lot
bill - he needs us to sustain the level of concern and participation that we have had, and i just hope i can do that
bill - yes, he and his brother both will be staying with me
Wendy - I will not be stupid enough to say that I know what you are going through, because I don't, but if I can offer any assistance, I have been there, at least with the child situation
bill - i am sure that will be helpful, i wrote down your address, i am hopiing for similar circunstances in brads progress through school as you have enjoyed
Wendy - all I can say is that there is a lot of work involved, but it is worth it....
bill - i am sure i have only seen the tip of the iceberg as far as the work goes, but with the progress we have enjoyed so far, i cant wait for what is to come!
Wendy - I used to worry about dying...what would happen to her if I died before I "fixed" her...now I just want two more years (at least!!!), then she could live normally without me
Mayh - why would you think you would die Wendy? and what about her educational program? did they play a roll in her success? and if so, what type of learning did she recieve?
Wendy - no, I don't mean that I expect to die, I am just saying that she needs an advocate,....I just always hope I won't get hit by a car or something stupid like that
Mayh - yea I guess that is normal for any parent
Wendy - You are lucky, Bill, there are some great people there....I would like to know more about his programming
Wendy - the diagnosis is the worst part, there is still the perception that this is the end of the child's life.....
bill - i realize it is still very early on in brads case, but we have seen so much progress, it is very encouraging
Wendy - when was he diagnosed
bill - yea, i went through the mourning period myself, feeling sorry, feeling guilty, wondering what i did wrong
bill - lets see, it would have been in early february
Wendy - I thought it was the marguerita I had before I knew I was pregnant.....
Mayh - oh yea I know all about guilt.......you can look for anything to blame yourself
Wendy - you sure are a new to this....I guess that would make me the VET
bill - yea, and my wife smoked, so she thought it was that
Wendy - guilt....my middle name
Wendy - keeps me honest
Mayh - Yea I felt really guilty when my son died
Wendy - what happened to your son? I haven't had anything as painful as that must have been!
Mayh - he died when he was two months old....Sudden Infant Death....it was his first day at the babysitter....I thought I had told you that bill, sorry
Wendy - I would like to say that I am truly sorry to hear that! I can't imagine what that was...is ....like for you.....how long ago was that? (am I asking too many question?)
Mayh - no it is fine....like I was telling Bill, I really have a peace about it now, I know that he had a purpose here even though for only so short of a time
Mayh - it was 9 years ago this month
Wendy - they all do...I think Aubrey's was to show me what is important in life...
Wendy - the kids
bill - wendy that is how i feel about brads situation
bill - his older brother had everything go so easily and uneventfully, that i guess the reality check has done me a lot of good
Mayh - yes I believe in what the bible says in Romans 8:28....all things work together for good, for those who love God"
Mayh - and that is what Tommy's life and death did for me......it got me to love the Lord
Mayh - he gave me the greatest gift .......eternity with God
Wendy - same with my older daughter..
Mayh - wendy do you have any other children?
Wendy - I hope no one will mind if I retire now, I have been staying up way too late lately getting things done for Christmas....yes, I have another daughter...great kid....
Mayh - well wendy hate to see you go......it was great talking to you....bye
