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Kathleen - Well, the topic tonight is to be Classroom Management. Many current teachers feel they should have had more prep in that area. Do you think there is enought being done in Teacher Prep institutions in that area?
Alexis - Kathleen--I think I was exposed to several techniques during student teaching, but it was more in the classroom that thru the university
Shar - I went to college at Indiana University in Bloomington, indiana. I definitely do not feel that I had enough preparation in classroom management when i trained to become a teacher. That is probably why I had so many struggles.
Dyan - I am a veteran teacher and the author of Survival Kit for New Teachers: A User Friendly Handbook. My partner and I also have a web site (http://www.inspiringteachers.com) dedicated to helping new teachers. I'd love to answer questions on this topic!
Jenn - Okay, Dyan, what is your number one tip for Begining teachers
iddit - Ah....Dyan....THE GUEST SPEAKER....please begin...we are all your captive audience!!!
Dyan - Emma McDonald is my teaching partner!
Kathleen - Dyan, thank you for coming to lead a discussion about Classroom Management.
mar - Dyan you may be the person I need to talk to. The students in my class have been allowed to move around freely, speak freely and basically disrupt their classmates learning. This does not seem to be beneficial to all students in the class. Help!!
Debbie - Dyan, I am subbing next Tuesday in one of the worst classes in our district. Help! It is 6 grade.
iddit - Dyan...speak to me about how to get my students to respect me when the mentor teacher leaves the room
Dyan - One idea that I found to be very helpful to organize the classroom is the "Day of the Week Folder" This folder is very effective because you can organize your lessons and materials for each day in the week.
Alexis - iddit--during student teaching, I realized how important it was to be very consistent with the management program the teacher had already established...
Jenn - Dyan, what supplies do suggest for the teacher and students at the begining of school with an unlimitied budget, it is for a classroom managment plan for a class
Dyan - Getting your students to respect you takes work - you must follow through on your consequences - talk to your mentor about discipline and make sure that you stick to it!
Lauren - Dyan, could you elaborate on the folders idea?
Kathleen - http://www.teachers.net/archive/disruptive_students.html is the transcript of our session which contains many good links to sites on classroom management
mar - Alexis, I'm trying to be consistent with my cooperating teachers plan, but things have been kind of relaxed and now they've gotten out of hand and she's revising and becoming more strict which isn't working either. Help!
Dyan - Jenn - Thanks! I suggest that you make your students have binders and tabs - helps them learn organization. Also, Buy lots of stuff to keep your desk organized.
Rose - Shar, I need help because I'm 21 and look about 15. Getting students to pay attention is tough.
Dyan - Our website includes tips for teachers to help them thoughout the year, as well as various resources for the classroom.
Shar - Jenn, that is tough, but i am sure that you can overcome all that with firmness and caring.
Deb - Dyan...what stuff keeps "your" desk organized?
Alexis - iddit--I had first graders, and I learned quickly that as soon as the cooperating teacher left the room, they wanted to see what all they could get away with. I learned that if they knew from the beginning that I wasn't going to let them get away with things they weren't suppose to they would repect me more, and follow the rules more
Dyan - Classroom layout - do what feels most comfortable for you! Make sure there is space for you to walk around and observe all students. Make the room student centered, not teacher centered.
Jenn - What type of seating arrangement do you suggest
Rose - How do I get a room full of rowdy students to settle down?
mar - I'm a rookie so I don't know what's the current agreed upon philosophy, is reward for turning in assignments or behaving in class passe in a 3rd grade classroom?
Dyan - Desk organization - Day of the Week folders (Monday, etc...) Stand up file organizers, a teacher binder with all lesson plans for the week, plus parent communication forms, a calander with school events already marked, etc...
iddit - Dyan? What about the child that keeps going after you have handed down consequences?
Alexis - I also think procedures are very important to teach the students the first few weeks...
mar - Yes, iddit! Because I have a student that continues to challenge.
Lauren - Dyan: What do you put in your day of the week folders?
Dyan - It is very important to teach students rules, consequences and procedures! However, when they are rowdy - your silence and stares can be more loud and powerful than any screaming or action!
mar - Rose, what have you tried with your rowdy students?
iddit - How long do you hold the stares? (Please don't tell me as long as it takes...I've already done that)
Rose - Dyan, not when you look as young as they are. How do I get them to respect me.
Dyan - Lauren - I prepared the day of the week folder on friday before the next week, with lesson plans and materials for those lesson plans. Then, every night before leaving my classroom, I made sure I had all materials and I put a sub folder in there for the next day!
Jenn - How do you start the very first day
Rose - Mar, I've tried counting to five or ten out loud and then assigning a punishment if they aren't on task. It works with younger kids. What about you?
mar - How do you deal with the guilt you feel at disrupting 80% of the classes learning when the other 20% are constantly off task?
iddit - I am not a screamer, but the waiting is minimally effective. Also have aped what mentor does, "I see that Samantha is ready..." but also not very effective for me. Is it because I came into the room in January rather than August?
Deb - I like the folder idea Dyan...It would be good when you wake up with a flu or other dreadful illness and have to take the day off.
Dyan - There are such terrific questions here - it is so hard to answer them all! Every one of these questions has a VERY detailed answer in our book - Survival Kit for New Teachers. It is so hard for me to go into detail here and read and respond to each question!
Alexis - Good question Jenn..that's one thing that very few student teachers ever get to observe!
mar - I'm not a screamer and I don't want to turn into one, my CT (cooperating teacher) always speaks very softly and it eventually works, she also uses the lights and a chime as a prompt.
Dyan - I also looked very young when I started teaching - but I was very firm. I practiced the "look" in front of the mirror - you know - the one that your Dad or another teacher gave you!
Rose - Mar, I'm glad to hear that, I'm not a screamer either but I have such a soft voice my throat is strained by the end of the week.
iddit - Yes...I am told I have the "look" because I am already a mother of two teenagers...
Alexis - I had a great Coop Teacher who had management and discipline down perfectly, but I didn't get to see how she intro all of this on the first day...any suggestions?
iddit - Dyan...what booksellers are carrying the book?
Dyan - Mar - good question about not wanting to disrupt teaching for a small percentage goofing off! Try continuing to teach, but stand very close to the main problem! Proximity often helps those kids!
iddit - Doesn't that stink Alexis? I wish we could start student teaching in August to see how the climate of the classroom is established
Dyan - iddit - Amazon.com has our book, but we also sell directly from our web site for much cheaper price - www.inspiringteachers.com
Rose - Well, I think I'm starting to get the look. I think I scared a few 3rd graders today. I'm still trying to find that balance of being firm.
Dyan - Emma and I wrote the book together, we have taught together for 3 years!
mar - Thank you, I have tried that and it does work, unfortunately the 6 students who have disciplinary problems are not seated near each other so sometimes I can't be in two places at once.
Alexis - I began student teaching in the Fall, but I still wonder how she introduced all of this stuff to her first graders the first day. I came into the class on the second or third day, I don't remember.
iddit - What grades Dy?
Dyan - Yes, Rose! You do have to find a balance between fun and firm! I joked around with my students when it was appropriate! I had lots of fun teaching, but my kids knew when I was ready to get down to business!
mar - Rose, you're in 3rd grade too? How many students?
Deb - Each year your classroom management may take on a different face. I feel it changes and grows each year. Do you agree?
Rose - Mar, Right now I'm a sub. I'm into every grade. I do like 3rd grade though.
Dyan - Emma and I teach fifth grade! She has also taught middle school and I taught 3rd grade! Wish she was here tonight to help me - I can't type that fast!
mar - I'm in that I want them to like me phase and I hate to mess with that by being too strict.
Dyan - Deb - totally agree! YOur classroom personality changes with each new group of kids!
Deb - mar they will like you when you are consistent
mar - One of the methods we use to discipline continuously disruptive students is writing sentences in the hall outside of the classroom, how effective is this punishment?
iddit - So should I not obsess about it during student teaching?
Alexis - Dyan--Is a discipline hierarchy a common thing to use?
Dyan - Deb - I agree! My kids say that I am their favorite teacher, and I can be very strict at times - I have high expectations, but I also like to have fun when the work is done!
Rose - Mar, I got over that when they sent me to junior high. After the 10th kid asked if I was a new student. The guard almost threw me out of the teachers lounge!
Kathleen - putting students into the hall unsuperivised is illegal in many places for one
Rose - Dyan, aren't students more likely to tell you your a great teacher the year after they've had you?
mar - It wasn't my idea, plus there are times when my CT sends out more that one student and who knows what they're doing in the hall, she feels at least they're not disrupting the other students.
Deb - A principal once told me that if I couldn't trust a child in the classroom, then I shouldn't trust them outside the classroom where they could get into more trouble
Kathleen - mar, those writing assignments can also turn off already beginning-to-be -turned-off kids to writing..better to find another consequence
iddit - It is very hard when you are in someone else's class room under the guise of being in charge
Dyan - When I had students that constantly misbehaved, I would start to give privledges to students who were behaving - catch them in the act of being good! The kids that were always acting up felt left out! Just and idea! It doesn't always work, but I had good luck with it. Often if you single out the disrupters, they get what they wanted int he first place - attention!
iddit - Kathleen...that's what I meant about sticking to consequences but knew it was against everything I have been learning in lectures...
mar - I couldn't agree more, but if you send them to the principal every time they disrupt other students' learning, the principal may not appreciate it or think you can handle the situation in your own classroom.
Kathleen - logical, MEANINGFUL consequences
Dyan - Iddit, sometimes college professors are so far removed from the classroom, that they forget what works and is realistic
iddit - Dyan...the attention...I have actually named it to the students who are looking for it as a way to let them know I am in on it so to speak...was that wrong???
mar - Dyan, I mentioned that to my CT and she wasn't very receptive to the idea. So I'm kind of stuck I guess.
Kathleen - when you send a child to someone else, it DOES mean that you can't handle it.
Kathleen - mar, just log it for when you have your own classroom :-)
Rose - Kathleen, what if your a sub and your not familiar enough with the student to know how to handle it?
Deb - An idea I tried this year for behavior was to take a picture of the children following the school rules. I posted their pictures with a label under each that told of the behavior they were following. I refered to this poster for the first half of the year. It worked!
iddit - So Kat...kids kept acting up when mentor left room...I threatened to write names on the board (that meant they would get homework when others didn't)
Kathleen - Rose, that's a difficult situation, and certainly Subs would need extra support from outside the classroom on more occasions
Dyan - I used to have a jar of "red tickets." I drew red tickets for special prizes - a coke with their lunch, homework passes, eating with me in the classroom by themselves, etc.. The more red tickets they got to drop in the jar, the better their chances were. I gave out the tickets to those who I caught doing the right thig! Worked great!
iddit - Students kept pushing, so I had to follow through...for homework I gave them a choice of 10 spelling words to use in a sentence...Had to think so fast...and knew these kids could handle...four of the five are some of the top students
Lauren - iddit, I've done that too. Also wrote "stars" on the board of kids who did something good.
mar - Subbing scares the heck out of me, I will start on April 26th.
Rose - Mar, it's not so bad. I don't think you can joke with them like their regular teachers can. You really have to put on a mean face for them to take you seriously.
iddit - Lauren...I like that Idea better...I am trying to get away from this 'domination' thing I see so many teachers wanting to do. I don't want "power"
Dyan - iddit - good job! Teaching is all about reacting quickly to situations!
Kathleen - iddit, you'll pick up strategies as you have more time in the classroom. I agree with Dyan, always try to emphasize and acknowledge postive behavior with positive consequences before falling back on the negative (punishment)
Deb - I use a similar idea with tickets Dyan. I give tickets that the children collect. On Friday's they get to "cash" them in for prizes. They earn tickets for behavior as well as answering questions at the close of my lesson. Such as: What did we learn in Math today?
Alexis - Dyan--Do you think a discipline hierarchy is common?
iddit - The next day...all five did do the "homework" so I graded the sentences and gave nothing but positive responses to their answers.
Rose - I like schools that use a take home card. It works a lot better than notes home to Mom or Dad that never come back.
Kathleen - Ron, if you enjoy this chat, check with iddit about upcoming weekly chats like this for this group ;-)
mar - I was at a seminar today, they suggested that at the beginning of the year the students be involved in setting up classroom rules that way they'll be more likely to follow them, True or False?
iddit - I wanted them to know that I appreciated that they took me seriously and did the work...my light comments were to let them know there were no hard feelings. everyday is a new day....
Dyan - Deb - sounds like our teaching strategies are similar - I always tried to keep a very positive classroom environment, but was very serious about high expectations!
Alexis - Mar--I have heard that is true...
Rose - I'll remember that iddit
mar - Rose what is a take home card?
Kathleen - mar, I agree, certainly let them help you define the rules
iddit - (Kat...you are such a cutey)
Alexis - Rose---what is on a take home card?
Lauren - I like acknowledging positive behaviour but I worry giving prizes takes away from internal motivation.
Deb - Yes, we seem to be on the same wave length...Dyan
Dyan - No - I don't suggest that you have students participate in setting up classroom rules! YOU know how they should be and you should have them prepared on the first day!
Kathleen - Lauren, there are many ways to acknowledge positive behavior without extrinsic (material) rewards, good point. now I'm really leaving!
iddit - But Dy...all the literature I have read states that we should give them 'a voice'
Dyan - On the first day of school -l do lots of activities defining and discussing rules and consequences! I even have the kids do a skit demonstrating them
Rose - Mar, It's a discipline sheet that teachers and subs can write on with spaces for every day. At the end of the week they go home to be signed. Student bring them back because their are serious consequences for not doing so. Plus Mom and Dad know from the beginning of the year to expect a card every week.
Deb - internal motivation will come with the positive feedback you are building in their early years.
mar - Lauren, your worry is a concern I've had, but sometimes I feel like the kids who are acting up are the only ones getting attention in the classroom.
Ron, Intern/FL - Dyan, doens't getting the kids involved gain a lot of their support. I mean, you wouldn't let them make silly rules, anyway.
Alexis - Dyan--For the first day of school, do teachers spend a great deal of the time going over procedures, rules, consequences, etc...it seems like one would.
Dyan - Students should definitly have a voice! Mine were given choices all of the time - but not about rules and my expectations! It is a complicated process - wish I had more time!
Dyan - Alexis - yes you should, but alternate activities between rules/procedures and fun "getting to know eachother" type activities! Teaching is always a balance!
iddit - Dyan...we are grateful for any time you can give us...we are STUDENT teachers...we are learning what ever we can and we thank you for your time.
Ron, Intern/FL - I figure the students already know that you're the authority figure in the classroom. Helping make the rules to me would just give them a stake int he daily operation that they aren't normally going to have, coming into YOUR room.
Rose - Does anyone teach at a school with uniforms? What do you think of them?
pyper - alexis...i spend much of the first day going over rules and procedures
iddit - All of our schools (in Chicago) are uniform schools....
Ron, Intern/FL - Ours has been optional for about 3 years. It hasn't gone over too big.
Deb - A way I teach that one person talks at a time is to use a soft foam ball. The person who has the ball is the one who can speak.
Rose - Pyper, how long does it take them to settle into first day rules and procedures.
pyper - rose...our district adopted a uniform policy...primary kids think they are cool...upgrade think they are dorky
Dyan - Ron - to each his own! I think you'll see that it isn't as easy as that! My kids and my parents loved me! Just because I didn't let them make up the rules, didn't mean they didn't have choices and a voice in my classroom! My classroom was completely student centered! But the individual teacher must decide what is right for them! I am just giving my suggestions!
pyper - alexis...2nd...i also let the kids help establish the rules...they know what's expected by 2nd
Ron, Intern/FL - I understand Dyan. Didn't mean to offend.
mar - I agree Dyan, I might not have the students assist me at least the first few years and see how it goes, but I might try it after I'm a veteran.
Rose - What do you think of the uniforms. I like the idea of using them but the students do complain.
pyper - rose...for most a day or two...for a few a year
Deb - I have tried both ways...kids made the rules vs.I made the rules , rewards and consequences. The latter worked the best.
Alexis - Dyan--is it proper to give the first week of school a time for students to become familiar to the rules and procedures? My coop teacher did not give consequences for the behavior, but she would correct them. She would point out what they were doing and remind them that the following week they would be given the corresponding consequence...it this a good thing to do?
Dyan - Alexis - I think that is a great idea, especially in lower grades! Verbalizing the rules A LOT the first week is important!
mar - We're having trouble with time management in my class, can'f fit all of the subjects in, any suggestions?
Deb - mar...Relax...everyone deals with that...check you lesson flow and pace.
Ron, Intern/FL - Mar, I use a stick system to call on kids. It cut down a lot on some of the blocks I teach. Gets the kids involved, too.
mar - We do math for 1 1/2 hours, based on the math program!!!
Dyan - Mar - you don't have to teach every subject every day! As long as you cover you required skills in the course of the year, you can teach in any way you want! I always had a very structured classroom, but somedays we would do a social studies project for two hours and not do math that day - it is your classroom! Make it interesting!
mar - Thanks Ron, a science teacher I had in college used that method and I really liked it, I would like to involve everyone, it's good for all of the students.
Alexis - JMB--are you a beginning teacher?
Ron, Intern/FL - Each kid has a stick with their name on one end and a little red girl or a blue boy on the other end. I have two cans, pull out a stick and call the name, that kid answers....
Ron, Intern/FL - then the next stick is of a different color (sex). They never know when their stick will be pulled.
Dyan - Well guys for LOTS more information - get our book - Survival Kit for New Teachers: A user friendly handbook! Check out our website at www.inspiringteachers.com! I'll try to visit you guys on Friday nights!
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