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Re: "the myth of underpaid teachers" no longer true!
Posted by let me clarify on 7/22/09

    Joe you must have misunderstood me when I said that it was easy to become a
    teacher. Let me clarify...you are correct in saying that it is extremely
    difficult to get a JOB teaching. I live in PA and we have a teaching surplus
    that would make a lot of people cringe at the thought of getting a job. I had
    to fill out countless online applications, mail out tons of packets and go
    through countless interviews and demonstration lessons before I was offered 2
    teaching positions. So I agree with you on that point, it is very difficult to
    obtain a job as a teacher.

    What I was trying to say in my previous post is that becoming a certified
    teacher is ridiculously easy. You only need to go to college for 4 years and
    WHAM you are ready to go find a job. 21 year olds are becoming teachers and are
    sometimes teaching students that are 20 years old...that was the point I was
    making. Yes, we do have to go to graduate school...but come on what profession
    doesn't? The fact that we are able to jump right in after only 4 years is the
    reason why the market is saturated, and it is just way to easy.

    I started at 44,000 with only a bachelors degree (and yes, I still say it's
    ridiculous) and will top out at 110,000. My graduate school is free and in two
    more years when I get my masters degree I will be making 57000. That is a lot
    of money for someone just 2 years out of college who does not work in the
    summers. That's what I was saying.


    On 7/22/09, Joe wrote:
    > The pay is good? Getting a teaching job is easy?
    >
    > Yes, the pay is good in my state, at $38k to start. However, I started fresh
    > out of college 30 years ago, at $30k, working as an actuary. I sent out
    > three resumes, typewritten on rag-content erasable typewriter paper, and was
    > at my desk working two weeks later!
    >
    > Today, we must fill out online applications, AND repeat the same information
    > in a C.V., attend successive interviews, and be treated as though we're
    > running for the US Senate. During the interview, we're told all about the
    > ehealth insurance plan by the HR "Professional" (I actually want to teach
    > for money. Sending a copy of a health insurance plan to my mortgage company
    > won't stop a foreclosure, last time I checked).
    >
    > Oh and I do know two teachers who were let go in a local school. The school
    > let them go, and kept another mediocre alternate-route graduate on for next
    > year.
    >
    >
    > On 7/22/09, Pa Teacher wrote:
    >> It is true that teachers are not technically offered a contract when they
    >> are initially hired, but what you talk about rarely happens. I know if
    > ONE
    >> teacher who worked in a very good school district in the suburbs of
    >> pittsburgh who was let go because the school had to get rid of her
    > position
    >> due to the budget issues. If you know if teachers who taught in the city
    >> and moved to the suburbs, then were let go and the district hired someone
    >> else to replace them....the only think I can think of is that they are
    > just
    >> no good. A school district is not going to get rid of its good teachers,
    > it
    >> doesn't matter if they are first year or not. Substitute teaching for 8
    >> years and not able to find a job?? Again, maybe they just aren't that
    >> impressive and should consider leaving the state.
    >>
    >> I completely agree with you that teaching is a profession and we should
    >> approach the job as professionals. Our pay here in PA is great and again,
    >> if you are one of those unfortunate teachers who work at a low paying
    >> school, you can leave the district for more money if you choose. But to
    > say
    >> that we are all professionals and act as such?? Do you watch the news?
    >> Becoming a teacher is one of the easiest things in the world to do.
    > Someone
    >> who posted earlier talks about how an engineer makes 80,000, lawyers make
    > so
    >> much money as well as doctors. Lawyers and doctors go through a lot more
    >> than we do, and the last time I checked you need more than a bachelors to
    >> become either a lawyer or a doctor. When a 21 year old can jump right
    > into
    >> the field and do the same work that a 30 year teacher is doing, then that
    > is
    >> a little too easy. I love teaching, but I have discovered that a majority
    >> of the new teachers that I meet today "settle" on teaching because they
    >> didn't know what to do with their lives. They know the pay and benefits
    > are
    >> good, and they know that it is incredibly easy to get certified to teach.
    >> Raise the standards to become a teacher, and maybe we can have better
    >> footing to complain about things. Not that I would complain...we work 9
    >> months a year and many of us make a lot of money. Given the choice to do
    >> what we do, or be a "normal" worker making just as much with 2 weeks off a
    >> year...Teachers have it made.
    >>
    >>
    >> On 7/22/09, No one gets a "contract" here wrote:
    >>> Suburban PA teachers get "hired"- not actually PROMISED a job- for a
    >>> period of one year. If you're not offered a "contract" after one
    >>> complete year, you're out. Period.
    >>> People I know have left city jobs thinking that they would "try" the
    >>> suburbs since they were "offered" a position. After a year- no job. They
    >>> are per diem subs. Occasionally, long term comes up, but they are
    >>> jostled around each year from school-to-school, often the DAY BEFORE
    >>> students arrive.
    >>> My own kids have had 50&37; of their teachers as subs without permanent
    >>> contracts. One teacher had been a "move around" sub without a contract
    >>> for 8 years. She does not know where/if she is teaching in a few weeks.
    >>> This is no way to live and raise a family.... but, somehow, we teachers
    >>> accept and bow to this kind of treatment. The "professionalism" that is
    >>> expected from us far surpasses the way we are sometimes treated, so I
    >>> understand where bitter feelings come from. However, we can put our
    >>> frustrations to good use in the form of letters, phone calls, and EMails
    >>> to the "powers that be" instead of dwelling in negativity on a website
    >>> that won't do anyone any good. We are professionals, worthy of fair
    >>> wages and respect- the same as any other profession. We must act
    >>> accordingly, and support each other in our endeavors. Sometimes that
    >>> requires sympathy or empathy, sometimes it's tough love. Stay strong. We
    >>> teachers shape the future like no one else can! (or WILL) For that, we
    >>> are worthy.
    >>>
    >>> On 7/21/09, sped wrote:
    >>>> On 7/21/09, maybe I'm bitter wrote:
    >>>>> I'm sorry, but I must say that this sound pretty aggressive. This
    >>>> board exists for people to
    >>>>> be able to freely express their opinions/ feelings. No one is forced
    >>>> to read it.
    >>>>
    >>>> True, and I'm free to express my opinions about their opinions. And,
    >>>> the fact that said poster's opinions include that teachers have no
    >>>> rights anywhere in the country, when in fact teachers have above
    >>> average
    >>>> to excellent employment rights compared to most other professions, I
    >>>> feel it's necessary to bring up a point of reason.
    >>>>
    >>>>> If one has
    >>>>> never been in a situation on the job where they were abused, it's
    >>>>>difficult to understand
    >>>>> someone else's emotions.
    >>>>
    >>>> Ah, but I have. Well, I haven't been "abused," but I have been in
    >>>> situations that were less than ideal, not what I was hired to do, and
    >>>> the people evaluating me kept getting me mixed up with someone else
    >>>> new, in the same department, and who had the same first name (he got
    >>>> non-renewed too... I wonder if one of us didn't deserve it and the
    >>> other
    >>>> did, but they just decided to nix us both because they couldn't sort
    >>> out
    >>>> who was who). I have been non-renewed once, and laid off once. I
    >>> moved
    >>>> on, have taught successfully in an above average suburban Chicago
    >>>> district for years, and am now a sped administrator in that district.
    >>>>
    >>>> Point is, it goes both ways. You're allowed to freely express your
    >>>> opinions, but so is everyone else. That's kind of the point...
    >>>>
    >>>>> The problem with NYC, there is only one board of ed. If you are "let
    >>>> go" with
    >>>>> "discontinuance" from one school, that means you can't be hired by any
    >>>> other of 1500
    >>>>> schools in the city. That seems to me a little harsh. I would've been
    >>>> happy to leave the
    >>>>> school and find a "better fit", but that wasn't given to me as an
    >>> option.
    >>>>
    >>>> Well, if Bank of America fired you at a branch in NYC, they wouldn't
    >>>> hire you in Boston. You live in one big district, that's the way it
    >>> is.
    >>>> If you look at it objectively, as a tax payer and possibly a parent
    >>> who
    >>>> sends kids to the district, why would you want your kid's school to
    >>> hire
    >>>> teachers fired with cause from another school in the district?
    >>>>
    >>>>> I wish the union AT LEAST made "sure all the paperwork and
    >>>> observations are done
    >>>>> correctly" which was not the case.
    >>>>
    >>>> Did you ask them to?
    >>>>
    >>>>> I sincerely hope that misconducts of such nature are
    >>>>> less prevalent outside NYC.
    >>>>
    >>>> They are not. First year (second, third, etc.) teachers get fired
    >>> until
    >>>> they have tenure. I don't know how long that takes in NYC.
    >>>>
    >>>> I don't know your contract or anything about teaching in NY. However,
    >>>> in IL and in my district, you can have good observations and not be
    >>>> rehired. You don't need a reason at all. Now, being terminated with a
    >>>> bar to rehire would take more documentation (though a non-rehire
    >>>> probably isn't getting back into my district even without an official
    >>>> termination, but we're relatively small).
    >>>>

     
     

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