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Re: "the myth of underpaid teachers" no longer true!
Posted by Joe on 7/23/09

    OK< I See your point, and I agree with you. I have seen several math teacher
    applicants complain about the Praxis 2 10061 exam for 7-12 certification. The
    way they describe it as being difficult makes me sick. (They shouldn't even TRY
    actuarial exams). I also see too many secondary teachers looking for a subject
    to teach, and then having a sudden "interest" in math and science, because
    that's where the jobs are. This is plain wrong. To teach a subject, one has to
    be interested in at and be a master of it.

    On 7/22/09, let me clarify wrote:
    > Joe you must have misunderstood me when I said that it was easy to become a
    > teacher. Let me clarify...you are correct in saying that it is extremely
    > difficult to get a JOB teaching. I live in PA and we have a teaching surplus
    > that would make a lot of people cringe at the thought of getting a job. I had
    > to fill out countless online applications, mail out tons of packets and go
    > through countless interviews and demonstration lessons before I was offered 2
    > teaching positions. So I agree with you on that point, it is very difficult
    to
    > obtain a job as a teacher.
    >
    > What I was trying to say in my previous post is that becoming a certified
    > teacher is ridiculously easy. You only need to go to college for 4 years and
    > WHAM you are ready to go find a job. 21 year olds are becoming teachers and
    are
    > sometimes teaching students that are 20 years old...that was the point I was
    > making. Yes, we do have to go to graduate school...but come on what
    profession
    > doesn't? The fact that we are able to jump right in after only 4 years is the
    > reason why the market is saturated, and it is just way to easy.
    >
    > I started at 44,000 with only a bachelors degree (and yes, I still say it's
    > ridiculous) and will top out at 110,000. My graduate school is free and in
    two
    > more years when I get my masters degree I will be making 57000. That is a lot
    > of money for someone just 2 years out of college who does not work in the
    > summers. That's what I was saying.
    >
    >
    > On 7/22/09, Joe wrote:
    >> The pay is good? Getting a teaching job is easy?
    >>
    >> Yes, the pay is good in my state, at $38k to start. However, I started fresh
    >> out of college 30 years ago, at $30k, working as an actuary. I sent out
    >> three resumes, typewritten on rag-content erasable typewriter paper, and was
    >> at my desk working two weeks later!
    >>
    >> Today, we must fill out online applications, AND repeat the same information
    >> in a C.V., attend successive interviews, and be treated as though we're
    >> running for the US Senate. During the interview, we're told all about the
    >> ehealth insurance plan by the HR "Professional" (I actually want to teach
    >> for money. Sending a copy of a health insurance plan to my mortgage company
    >> won't stop a foreclosure, last time I checked).
    >>
    >> Oh and I do know two teachers who were let go in a local school. The school
    >> let them go, and kept another mediocre alternate-route graduate on for next
    >> year.
    >>
    >>
    >> On 7/22/09, Pa Teacher wrote:
    >>> It is true that teachers are not technically offered a contract when they
    >>> are initially hired, but what you talk about rarely happens. I know if
    >> ONE
    >>> teacher who worked in a very good school district in the suburbs of
    >>> pittsburgh who was let go because the school had to get rid of her
    >> position
    >>> due to the budget issues. If you know if teachers who taught in the city
    >>> and moved to the suburbs, then were let go and the district hired someone
    >>> else to replace them....the only think I can think of is that they are
    >> just
    >>> no good. A school district is not going to get rid of its good teachers,
    >> it
    >>> doesn't matter if they are first year or not. Substitute teaching for 8
    >>> years and not able to find a job?? Again, maybe they just aren't that
    >>> impressive and should consider leaving the state.
    >>>
    >>> I completely agree with you that teaching is a profession and we should
    >>> approach the job as professionals. Our pay here in PA is great and again,
    >>> if you are one of those unfortunate teachers who work at a low paying
    >>> school, you can leave the district for more money if you choose. But to
    >> say
    >>> that we are all professionals and act as such?? Do you watch the news?
    >>> Becoming a teacher is one of the easiest things in the world to do.
    >> Someone
    >>> who posted earlier talks about how an engineer makes 80,000, lawyers make
    >> so
    >>> much money as well as doctors. Lawyers and doctors go through a lot more
    >>> than we do, and the last time I checked you need more than a bachelors to
    >>> become either a lawyer or a doctor. When a 21 year old can jump right
    >> into
    >>> the field and do the same work that a 30 year teacher is doing, then that
    >> is
    >>> a little too easy. I love teaching, but I have discovered that a majority
    >>> of the new teachers that I meet today "settle" on teaching because they
    >>> didn't know what to do with their lives. They know the pay and benefits
    >> are
    >>> good, and they know that it is incredibly easy to get certified to teach.
    >>> Raise the standards to become a teacher, and maybe we can have better
    >>> footing to complain about things. Not that I would complain...we work 9
    >>> months a year and many of us make a lot of money. Given the choice to do
    >>> what we do, or be a "normal" worker making just as much with 2 weeks off a
    >>> year...Teachers have it made.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> On 7/22/09, No one gets a "contract" here wrote:
    >>>> Suburban PA teachers get "hired"- not actually PROMISED a job- for a
    >>>> period of one year. If you're not offered a "contract" after one
    >>>> complete year, you're out. Period.
    >>>> People I know have left city jobs thinking that they would "try" the
    >>>> suburbs since they were "offered" a position. After a year- no job. They
    >>>> are per diem subs. Occasionally, long term comes up, but they are
    >>>> jostled around each year from school-to-school, often the DAY BEFORE
    >>>> students arrive.
    >>>> My own kids have had 50&37; of their teachers as subs without permanent
    >>>> contracts. One teacher had been a "move around" sub without a contract
    >>>> for 8 years. She does not know where/if she is teaching in a few weeks.
    >>>> This is no way to live and raise a family.... but, somehow, we teachers
    >>>> accept and bow to this kind of treatment. The "professionalism" that is
    >>>> expected from us far surpasses the way we are sometimes treated, so I
    >>>> understand where bitter feelings come from. However, we can put our
    >>>> frustrations to good use in the form of letters, phone calls, and EMails
    >>>> to the "powers that be" instead of dwelling in negativity on a website
    >>>> that won't do anyone any good. We are professionals, worthy of fair
    >>>> wages and respect- the same as any other profession. We must act
    >>>> accordingly, and support each other in our endeavors. Sometimes that
    >>>> requires sympathy or empathy, sometimes it's tough love. Stay strong. We
    >>>> teachers shape the future like no one else can! (or WILL) For that, we
    >>>> are worthy.
    >>>>
    >>>> On 7/21/09, sped wrote:
    >>>>> On 7/21/09, maybe I'm bitter wrote:
    >>>>>> I'm sorry, but I must say that this sound pretty aggressive. This
    >>>>> board exists for people to
    >>>>>> be able to freely express their opinions/ feelings. No one is forced
    >>>>> to read it.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> True, and I'm free to express my opinions about their opinions. And,
    >>>>> the fact that said poster's opinions include that teachers have no
    >>>>> rights anywhere in the country, when in fact teachers have above
    >>>> average
    >>>>> to excellent employment rights compared to most other professions, I
    >>>>> feel it's necessary to bring up a point of reason.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> If one has
    >>>>>> never been in a situation on the job where they were abused, it's
    >>>>>>difficult to understand
    >>>>>> someone else's emotions.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Ah, but I have. Well, I haven't been "abused," but I have been in
    >>>>> situations that were less than ideal, not what I was hired to do, and
    >>>>> the people evaluating me kept getting me mixed up with someone else
    >>>>> new, in the same department, and who had the same first name (he got
    >>>>> non-renewed too... I wonder if one of us didn't deserve it and the
    >>>> other
    >>>>> did, but they just decided to nix us both because they couldn't sort
    >>>> out
    >>>>> who was who). I have been non-renewed once, and laid off once. I
    >>>> moved
    >>>>> on, have taught successfully in an above average suburban Chicago
    >>>>> district for years, and am now a sped administrator in that district.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Point is, it goes both ways. You're allowed to freely express your
    >>>>> opinions, but so is everyone else. That's kind of the point...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> The problem with NYC, there is only one board of ed. If you are "let
    >>>>> go" with
    >>>>>> "discontinuance" from one school, that means you can't be hired by any
    >>>>> other of 1500
    >>>>>> schools in the city. That seems to me a little harsh. I would've been
    >>>>> happy to leave the
    >>>>>> school and find a "better fit", but that wasn't given to me as an
    >>>> option.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Well, if Bank of America fired you at a branch in NYC, they wouldn't
    >>>>> hire you in Boston. You live in one big district, that's the way it
    >>>> is.
    >>>>> If you look at it objectively, as a tax payer and possibly a parent
    >>>> who
    >>>>> sends kids to the district, why would you want your kid's school to
    >>>> hire
    >>>>> teachers fired with cause from another school in the district?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I wish the union AT LEAST made "sure all the paperwork and
    >>>>> observations are done
    >>>>>> correctly" which was not the case.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Did you ask them to?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I sincerely hope that misconducts of such nature are
    >>>>>> less prevalent outside NYC.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> They are not. First year (second, third, etc.) teachers get fired
    >>>> until
    >>>>> they have tenure. I don't know how long that takes in NYC.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I don't know your contract or anything about teaching in NY. However,
    >>>>> in IL and in my district, you can have good observations and not be
    >>>>> rehired. You don't need a reason at all. Now, being terminated with a
    >>>>> bar to rehire would take more documentation (though a non-rehire
    >>>>> probably isn't getting back into my district even without an official
    >>>>> termination, but we're relatively small).
    >>>>>

     
     

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