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Re: "the myth of underpaid teachers" no longer true!
Posted by Clarification on 7/23/09

    Thanks NBCT- and congratulations on certifying! I went through the process but I won't have my
    scores (as you know) until next December. I agree lots of people are un-informed or mis-
    informed about what it really is, so thanks for your insights on the whole thing.
    On 7/23/09, NBCTer wrote:
    > I couldn't help but read with interest the posts about the NB process....unfortunately, many
    > of the misconceptions hover around the fact that everyone assumes that NBCT is a bunch of
    > additional tests, which it is wholeheartedly NOT. The NBCT is a process...a process of self
    > reflection to show GROWTH in the area of teaching. You do not need to be a "proven
    > spectacular" teacher- that is what your principal observations are for. The NBCT allows you
    > to REFLECT on your teaching. you pass based on your reflections and how you plan to move
    > ahead in your classroom. The notion that "time spent dictates whether or not you are a good
    > teacher" is completely NOT the case in NBCT. You can take as MUCH or as LITTLE time to do
    > the four portfolio assessments.
    > I believe Elena said the "beyond the classroom" section had something to do with being
    > extroverted or introverted....an passing. Again, false. The section you are referring to is
    > called Section Four- Documented Accomplishements, and it refers to three main areas of
    > teaching ; Family involvement (in the form of our Communication LOGS- notes, phone calls,
    > letters home- it all COUNTS), Community involvement (which you do anyway) an leadership
    > roles (which you do anyway) Everything a teacher does on a day-to-day basis can fit into the
    > three main areas of Entry 4 Documented Accomplishments.
    > The only actual Testing that is done- is a 3 hour, six section Assessment Center Exercise
    > that requires (depending upon you cert area) you to be current in research, and how to
    > address what is needed for your students. You do this EVERY DAY at work. There's no excuse
    > for not knowing the stuff. Period.
    > Doctors, CPA, and attorneys most certainly are not asked to do this because their line of
    > work does not require them to have community partnerships. Schools are part of the larger
    > community, and often are the "activity center" for neighborhoods. Teachers facilitate those
    > partnerships. It's part of the "unwritten" rule of teaching.
    > I applaud the previous poster "clarification" for trying to UP the standards for teachers.
    > Maybe if we required a standard that was much higher for teachers, the respect for the
    > profession would be greater.
    > Do the research on NBCT before you assume that it is "just another test"
    > On 7/23/09, don't like tests wrote:
    >> I agree with the previous post. I don't believe that "tests" should be a major indicator
    > on
    >> whether or not someone is fit to teach. I have students who are excellent when given a
    >> test, but if asked to explain a simple concept for the rest of the class they are unable
    > to
    >> do so. There should be more observations taking place and more accountability for
    > teachers
    >> who are not living up to their jobs. You do not have to work several hours out of the
    >> classroom, I know I sure don't. Everyone seems to think that time spent dictates whether
    > or
    >> not you are a good teacher, I assure you it does not. What takes you an hour to do, might
    >> take me thirty minutes to do. And just because you may score high on a test does not make
    >> you any more qualified than someone else. It just means you did better on a test, plain
    > and
    >> simple.
    >>
    >>
    >> On 7/23/09, Elena wrote:
    >>> I do not agree with making those National Boards our standard in producing competent
    >>> teachers.
    >>>
    >>> I consider myself a highly successful teacher. I love the job, my students and I have a
    >>> solid grasp of my subject area. However, I'd never pass that test in a million years in
    >>> the way it is structured. It tends to weed out teachers based on personality and favors
    >>> those with extroverted personalities.
    >>>
    >>> For example, there is a section measuring competence "beyond the classroom." To be
    >>> perfectly honest, I don't do much beyond the classroom. I am not lazy. I am very
    >>> introverted. I am not the type who leads committees, generates fundraisers, and
    >>> initiates partnerships within the community. I don't think that should determine my fate
    >>> as a teacher.
    >>>
    >>> I'm confident they don't require this on exams for doctors, attorneys, or CPAs.
    >>>
    >>> On 7/23/09, Clarification wrote:
    >>>> What I referred to in a previous post about getting certified in NY:
    >>>> 2 decades ago- prior to the PRAXIS exams, there were NTE's (National Teacher Exams).
    >>>> NY required a LOT of them (three CORE Battery tests and a Specialty Area), while PA
    >>>> required only one (specialty area). Unfair testing? -perhaps... it was NOT "National"
    >>>> if everyone was not required to take and pass the same thing! There was reciprocity
    >>>> for NY State teachers in many other states (with the exception being California).
    >>>> Again, this was decades ago.
    >>>>
    >>>> I did not take the PRAXIS, and I am not familiar with what PA requires now. I am
    >>>> merely referring to the requirements that were in place about 20 years ago when it
    >>>> appeared to be more difficult to obtain a teaching license. I too, took three parts of
    >>>> the NTE Core Battery test prior to graduating college, and passed with the highest
    >>>> score possible.
    >>>>
    >>>> This brings us back to the "stiffening up" of standards. The National Boards for
    >>>> Teacher Certification was an attempt to identify HIGHLY ACCOMPLISHED teachers. It is
    >>>> rigorous, demanding, time consuming, and expensive. The rewards are: you get to
    >>>> say "I'm National Board certified," you learn a lot, and you get some Act 48 credits..
    >>>> There is often no further reward for the thousands of teachers who persue the
    >>>> certificate. Perhaps we should promote this type of certificate, and "weed out" the
    >>>> teachers who can't pass. maybe this process should be the NEW way to certify. We would
    >>>> have 83 percent LESS teachers out there...since the passing rate for NBCT is hovering
    >>>> around 17 percent.
    >>>> Agree with what everyone else said- it is very easy to become a teacher. National
    >>>> Board is the only cert that is standard across state lines....and it is by far the
    >>>> most difficult to obtain. We should all try it.
    >>>>
    >>>> On 7/22/09, Oh New York wrote:
    >>>>> The individual talking about getting certified in New York compared to Pennsylvania
    >>>>> has some of the facts mixed up. In PA there are tests that one must take to become
    >>>> a
    >>>>> teacher in any field. They are called the Praxis tests, and depending on the field
    >>>>> you choose there could be several that you have to take.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The 1st Praxis test is the same for everyone, and it tests your reading, writing,
    >>>> and
    >>>>> math skills. IF you do not pass this test than you can not teach in the state of PA.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The 2nd Praxis test concentrates on specific content knowledge. If you are going to
    >>>>> teach social studies, then the test will consist of questions solely on social
    >>>> studies
    >>>>> content (history, government, psychology, economics, etc)
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Now I will not try to fool anyone...if you fail the praxis 1 exam than you must be
    >>>>> brain dead. I don't know of a single person that studied for it, and quite frankly
    >>>> I
    >>>>> went out with a group of friends the night before and stayed out until 3 in the
    >>>>> morning, took my praxis 1 test early the next morning and passed with flying
    >>>> colors.
    >>>>> It was a joke.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The praxis 2 tests are where it gets a little tougher, but it is still not that
    >>>> bad.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Now in new york they even test you on your knowledge of educators in the field?
    >>>>> Sounds like a waste of time to me, what good is that going to do you when it comes
    >>>> to
    >>>>> teaching? It isn't going to do any good. New York sounds like it does have tougher
    >>>>> requirements than PA, but it is not that much harder. And I agree with the previous
    >>>>> poster who says that getting certified to teach is a breeze, because it is.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I am still bias towards PA though :)
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> On 7/22/09, let me clarify once again wrote:
    >>>>>> I have heard that getting certified to teach in New York is more difficult than it
    >>>>>> is here in PA...but I guess you didn't write down one specific aspect in your wall
    >>>>>> post. I am happy to hear that you were able to get your certification in New York
    >>>>>> and from what you've wrote, you seem to be a very good teacher. But let me ask
    >>>>>> you...upon graduating from high school, how long would it take someone to become a
    >>>>>> teacher in the state of New York? Lets pretend that we all live in New York, and
    >>>>>> know right away upon graduating from high school that we are going to teach in the
    >>>>>> state of new york...does one need only a bachelors degree and a certification?
    >>>>>> Hypothetically if you passed all of those tests you were talking about, how long
    >>>>>> would that take you? I'm willing to bet that it's still not that long of a time.
    >>>>>> It is a matter of taking some tests, which really is not that impressive to me.
    >>>> You
    >>>>>> are a teacher, how many students to you have that are incredibly bright but do not
    >>>>>> do so well at tests? And how many students do you have that are excellent test
    >>>>>> takers but struggle socially and struggle in other areas academically? A friend of
    >>>>>> mine took his sat and almost got a perfect score, yet he did not have the capacity
    >>>>>> to get through his first year in college.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I am a teacher and I love everything about my job. But as much as I hate to say
    >>>>>> it...people should not look at us like they would look at a lawyer or a doctor as
    >>>>>> far as being a professional is concerned. I'm sure that you will find 22 year old
    >>>>>> teachers in New York city doing the same work that a 55 year old teacher is doing.
    >>>>>> That is the point I am making here. NO OTHER PROFESSION can someone graduate from
    >>>>>> college and enter the field so IMMEDIATELY! Again, not that familiar with new
    >>>> yorks
    >>>>>> standards so I think you for taking the time to enlighten me, but it is still not
    >>>>>> impressive. If I lived in new york, I would still be saying the same thing.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> People have recommended to me that it is smarter to get the teaching job before
    >>>>>> going to graduate school for several reasons. 1) Many school districts will pay
    >>>> for
    >>>>>> you to go to graduate school...so why pay out of your own pocket? (The school
    >>>>>> district I work for has a 100&37; payment program...so I will be getting my
    >>>>> doctorate
    >>>>>> absolutely free). 2nd reason...The school has to pay more money to a teacher with
    >>>> a
    >>>>>> masters degree. Many schools are hurting for money right now so they choose the
    >>>>>> less experienced teacher to save some money.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> In no other profession is it recommended to forgo graduate school before entering
    >>>>>> the profession. it is actually IMPOSSIBLE to enter the profession before you
    >>>> attend
    >>>>>> SEVERAL YEARS of graduate school. So once again I say...I love teaching...but it
    >>>> is
    >>>>>> WAY TO EASY to get certified ANYWHERE...PERIOD.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> On 7/22/09, Not as easy in ALL states wrote:
    >>>>>>> "Let me clarify" wrote about how easy it is to becaome a teacher- I believe that
    >>>>>>> you are in the state of PA- as am I. That said, I certified in NEW YORK first,
    >>>>>>> where it was more difficult to obtain a teacher's license. Did you know that NYC
    >>>>>>> has a separate license as well? More paperwork, interviews, demonstration
    >>>>>>> lessons, written exams, etc? I wasn't even sure that my interviewers knew more
    >>>>>>> than I did!!! How sad is that?! I literally "sailed" into NJ and PA, ~ my NYS
    >>>>>>> Teaching license was a gold mine! In NY back then, there were tests for
    >>>>>>> specialty areas as well as three main NTE's (Communication skills, general
    >>>>>>> knowledge, and one other area that dealt specifically with your knowledge about
    >>>>>>> education/educators in the field). Not everyone passed. In fact, after 4 years
    >>>>>>> in college, if you couldn't passs the NTE's - you might as well deliver
    >>>>>>> newspapers. Not true today, where in some states, the tests are so watered-down
    >>>>>>> that a high schooler could pass them! In PA- no such tests. I took one little
    >>>>>>> specialty area test - scored in the 99&37;ile, and boom...teacher extraordinaire!
    >>>>>>> So, I guess it depends on what your state mandates as far as certification. PA
    >>>>>>> was extremely easy...ENTER the NATIONAL BOARDS! Since National Board
    >>>>>>> Certification was supposed to be "an even playing field," those who certify
    >>>>>>> truly are "highly accomplished teachers." Let me tell you- less than 20&37;
    >>>>>> certify
    >>>>>>> on their first attempt. This is what should happen throughout the nation....a
    >>>>>>> standard of excellence for every teacher- not the state~by~state Mickey Mouse
    >>>>>>> standards that vary so significantly. Unfortunately, those who do receive NBCT
    >>>>>>> get nothing in return, since stipends are now being yanked out from under them.
    >>>>>>> Even National Board certified Teachers are not respected as professionals after
    >>>>>>> the rigorous, time-consuming, difficult certification process.
    >>>>>>> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....sounds like we might need to promote National Boards as a
    >>>>>>> way of increasing the respect and professionalism that we so desire. Just a
    >>>>>>> suggestion.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On 7/22/09, let me clarify wrote:
    >>>>>>>> Joe you must have misunderstood me when I said that it was easy to become a
    >>>>>>>> teacher. Let me clarify...you are correct in saying that it is extremely
    >>>>>>>> difficult to get a JOB teaching. I live in PA and we have a teaching surplus
    >>>>>>>> that would make a lot of people cringe at the thought of getting a job. I had
    >>>>>>>> to fill out countless online applications, mail out tons of packets and go
    >>>>>>>> through countless interviews and demonstration lessons before I was offered 2
    >>>>>>>> teaching positions. So I agree with you on that point, it is very difficult
    >>>>>>> to
    >>>>>>>> obtain a job as a teacher.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> What I was trying to say in my previous post is that becoming a certified
    >>>>>>>> teacher is ridiculously easy. You only need to go to college for 4 years and
    >>>>>>>> WHAM you are ready to go find a job. 21 year olds are becoming teachers and
    >>>>>>> are
    >>>>>>>> sometimes teaching students that are 20 years old...that was the point I was
    >>>>>>>> making. Yes, we do have to go to graduate school...but come on what
    >>>>>>> profession
    >>>>>>>> doesn't? The fact that we are able to jump right in after only 4 years is the
    >>>>>>>> reason why the market is saturated, and it is just way to easy.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> I started at 44,000 with only a bachelors degree (and yes, I still say it's
    >>>>>>>> ridiculous) and will top out at 110,000. My graduate school is free and in
    >>>>>>> two
    >>>>>>>> more years when I get my masters degree I will be making 57000. That is a lot
    >>>>>>>> of money for someone just 2 years out of college who does not work in the
    >>>>>>>> summers. That's what I was saying.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> On 7/22/09, Joe wrote:
    >>>>>>>>> The pay is good? Getting a teaching job is easy?
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Yes, the pay is good in my state, at $38k to start. However, I started fresh
    >>>>>>>>> out of college 30 years ago, at $30k, working as an actuary. I sent out
    >>>>>>>>> three resumes, typewritten on rag-content erasable typewriter paper, and was
    >>>>>>>>> at my desk working two weeks later!
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Today, we must fill out online applications, AND repeat the same information
    >>>>>>>>> in a C.V., attend successive interviews, and be treated as though we're
    >>>>>>>>> running for the US Senate. During the interview, we're told all about the
    >>>>>>>>> ehealth insurance plan by the HR "Professional" (I actually want to teach
    >>>>>>>>> for money. Sending a copy of a health insurance plan to my mortgage company
    >>>>>>>>> won't stop a foreclosure, last time I checked).
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Oh and I do know two teachers who were let go in a local school. The school
    >>>>>>>>> let them go, and kept another mediocre alternate-route graduate on for next
    >>>>>>>>> year.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> On 7/22/09, Pa Teacher wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>> It is true that teachers are not technically offered a contract when they
    >>>>>>>>>> are initially hired, but what you talk about rarely happens. I know if
    >>>>>>>>> ONE
    >>>>>>>>>> teacher who worked in a very good school district in the suburbs of
    >>>>>>>>>> pittsburgh who was let go because the school had to get rid of her
    >>>>>>>>> position
    >>>>>>>>>> due to the budget issues. If you know if teachers who taught in the city
    >>>>>>>>>> and moved to the suburbs, then were let go and the district hired someone
    >>>>>>>>>> else to replace them....the only think I can think of is that they are
    >>>>>>>>> just
    >>>>>>>>>> no good. A school district is not going to get rid of its good teachers,
    >>>>>>>>> it
    >>>>>>>>>> doesn't matter if they are first year or not. Substitute teaching for 8
    >>>>>>>>>> years and not able to find a job?? Again, maybe they just aren't that
    >>>>>>>>>> impressive and should consider leaving the state.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> I completely agree with you that teaching is a profession and we should
    >>>>>>>>>> approach the job as professionals. Our pay here in PA is great and again,
    >>>>>>>>>> if you are one of those unfortunate teachers who work at a low paying
    >>>>>>>>>> school, you can leave the district for more money if you choose. But to
    >>>>>>>>> say
    >>>>>>>>>> that we are all professionals and act as such?? Do you watch the news?
    >>>>>>>>>> Becoming a teacher is one of the easiest things in the world to do.
    >>>>>>>>> Someone
    >>>>>>>>>> who posted earlier talks about how an engineer makes 80,000, lawyers make
    >>>>>>>>> so
    >>>>>>>>>> much money as well as doctors. Lawyers and doctors go through a lot more
    >>>>>>>>>> than we do, and the last time I checked you need more than a bachelors to
    >>>>>>>>>> become either a lawyer or a doctor. When a 21 year old can jump right
    >>>>>>>>> into
    >>>>>>>>>> the field and do the same work that a 30 year teacher is doing, then that
    >>>>>>>>> is
    >>>>>>>>>> a little too easy. I love teaching, but I have discovered that a majority
    >>>>>>>>>> of the new teachers that I meet today "settle" on teaching because they
    >>>>>>>>>> didn't know what to do with their lives. They know the pay and benefits
    >>>>>>>>> are
    >>>>>>>>>> good, and they know that it is incredibly easy to get certified to teach.
    >>>>>>>>>> Raise the standards to become a teacher, and maybe we can have better
    >>>>>>>>>> footing to complain about things. Not that I would complain...we work 9
    >>>>>>>>>> months a year and many of us make a lot of money. Given the choice to do
    >>>>>>>>>> what we do, or be a "normal" worker making just as much with 2 weeks off a
    >>>>>>>>>> year...Teachers have it made.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> On 7/22/09, No one gets a "contract" here wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>> Suburban PA teachers get "hired"- not actually PROMISED a job- for a
    >>>>>>>>>>> period of one year. If you're not offered a "contract" after one
    >>>>>>>>>>> complete year, you're out. Period.
    >>>>>>>>>>> People I know have left city jobs thinking that they would "try" the
    >>>>>>>>>>> suburbs since they were "offered" a position. After a year- no job. They
    >>>>>>>>>>> are per diem subs. Occasionally, long term comes up, but they are
    >>>>>>>>>>> jostled around each year from school-to-school, often the DAY BEFORE
    >>>>>>>>>>> students arrive.
    >>>>>>>>>>> My own kids have had 50&37; of their teachers as subs without permanent
    >>>>>>>>>>> contracts. One teacher had been a "move around" sub without a contract
    >>>>>>>>>>> for 8 years. She does not know where/if she is teaching in a few weeks.
    >>>>>>>>>>> This is no way to live and raise a family.... but, somehow, we teachers
    >>>>>>>>>>> accept and bow to this kind of treatment. The "professionalism" that is
    >>>>>>>>>>> expected from us far surpasses the way we are sometimes treated, so I
    >>>>>>>>>>> understand where bitter feelings come from. However, we can put our
    >>>>>>>>>>> frustrations to good use in the form of letters, phone calls, and EMails
    >>>>>>>>>>> to the "powers that be" instead of dwelling in negativity on a website
    >>>>>>>>>>> that won't do anyone any good. We are professionals, worthy of fair
    >>>>>>>>>>> wages and respect- the same as any other profession. We must act
    >>>>>>>>>>> accordingly, and support each other in our endeavors. Sometimes that
    >>>>>>>>>>> requires sympathy or empathy, sometimes it's tough love. Stay strong. We
    >>>>>>>>>>> teachers shape the future like no one else can! (or WILL) For that, we
    >>>>>>>>>>> are worthy.
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> On 7/21/09, sped wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/21/09, maybe I'm bitter wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry, but I must say that this sound pretty aggressive. This
    >>>>>>>>>>>> board exists for people to
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> be able to freely express their opinions/ feelings. No one is forced
    >>>>>>>>>>>> to read it.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> True, and I'm free to express my opinions about their opinions. And,
    >>>>>>>>>>>> the fact that said poster's opinions include that teachers have no
    >>>>>>>>>>>> rights anywhere in the country, when in fact teachers have above
    >>>>>>>>>>> average
    >>>>>>>>>>>> to excellent employment rights compared to most other professions, I
    >>>>>>>>>>>> feel it's necessary to bring up a point of reason.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> If one has
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> never been in a situation on the job where they were abused, it's
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>difficult to understand
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> someone else's emotions.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Ah, but I have. Well, I haven't been "abused," but I have been in
    >>>>>>>>>>>> situations that were less than ideal, not what I was hired to do, and
    >>>>>>>>>>>> the people evaluating me kept getting me mixed up with someone else
    >>>>>>>>>>>> new, in the same department, and who had the same first name (he got
    >>>>>>>>>>>> non-renewed too... I wonder if one of us didn't deserve it and the
    >>>>>>>>>>> other
    >>>>>>>>>>>> did, but they just decided to nix us both because they couldn't sort
    >>>>>>>>>>> out
    >>>>>>>>>>>> who was who). I have been non-renewed once, and laid off once. I
    >>>>>>>>>>> moved
    >>>>>>>>>>>> on, have taught successfully in an above average suburban Chicago
    >>>>>>>>>>>> district for years, and am now a sped administrator in that district.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Point is, it goes both ways. You're allowed to freely express your
    >>>>>>>>>>>> opinions, but so is everyone else. That's kind of the point...
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem with NYC, there is only one board of ed. If you are "let
    >>>>>>>>>>>> go" with
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> "discontinuance" from one school, that means you can't be hired by any
    >>>>>>>>>>>> other of 1500
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> schools in the city. That seems to me a little harsh. I would've been
    >>>>>>>>>>>> happy to leave the
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> school and find a "better fit", but that wasn't given to me as an
    >>>>>>>>>>> option.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Well, if Bank of America fired you at a branch in NYC, they wouldn't
    >>>>>>>>>>>> hire you in Boston. You live in one big district, that's the way it
    >>>>>>>>>>> is.
    >>>>>>>>>>>> If you look at it objectively, as a tax payer and possibly a parent
    >>>>>>>>>>> who
    >>>>>>>>>>>> sends kids to the district, why would you want your kid's school to
    >>>>>>>>>>> hire
    >>>>>>>>>>>> teachers fired with cause from another school in the district?
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> I wish the union AT LEAST made "sure all the paperwork and
    >>>>>>>>>>>> observations are done
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> correctly" which was not the case.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Did you ask them to?
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> I sincerely hope that misconducts of such nature are
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> less prevalent outside NYC.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> They are not. First year (second, third, etc.) teachers get fired
    >>>>>>>>>>> until
    >>>>>>>>>>>> they have tenure. I don't know how long that takes in NYC.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know your contract or anything about teaching in NY. However,
    >>>>>>>>>>>> in IL and in my district, you can have good observations and not be
    >>>>>>>>>>>> rehired. You don't need a reason at all. Now, being terminated with a
    >>>>>>>>>>>> bar to rehire would take more documentation (though a non-rehire
    >>>>>>>>>>>> probably isn't getting back into my district even without an official
    >>>>>>>>>>>> termination, but we're relatively small).
    >>>>>>>>>>>>

     
     

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