Re: to Fireman Dad (on your interest-level)

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I was not the one that asked that questin about kerosene although I
do get the blame FDNY daughter. I am also not the one that keeps
bringing it up. Others bring it up and I will sometimes give my
opinion about it.
I have never said that AR is bad or children should not read. I
think AR can be overused by some teachers because its easy for them
to grade. I think it is also misused by some. I have never said
that all teachers misuse it or abuse it, but some do.
Yes, my son had moved on and so have I. His teachers this year (
same school, different grade) were appalled at what happened last
year and couldnt believe it. Also, the whole county school system
uses it differently from school to school and our school uses it
differently between grades. So, again, please dont tell me that I
dont know what I'm talking about or that teachers are mandated by the
board or the principal to use it and that it's out of their control.
It may be that way at your school, but not at ours. This again is an
issue of some teachers on here thinking that they know everything as
well and that all schools operate the same as your school does. It
doesnt.

I appreciate the respect you have for my profession and although you
may not believe it, I appreciate your profession as well. Because I
have an issue with the way something is done or handles or used, that
does not mean I dont understand things or appreciate what you do. If
I see something wrong or something that could be better, I will speak
up. Because I disagree with some things doenst mean I'm the enemy.
If some people would listen and not get defensive so fast, maybe they
wouold see my point..although you may not agree, maybe you could see
it. Let's agree to disagree. I'm fine with that. But remember,
there are 2 sides to this even from within your profession, so please
dont tell me that I dont know what I'm talking about and that because
I havent set through some overpriced (ha ha) training course, that my
opinion doesnt matter. I have seen what misuse does to the young
readers.
My child reads everyday, both independently and with us. We
encourage him with every ounce of strength we have and want the best
for him. Last year AR was misused and he hated to read...bottom
line, no if ands or buts...We got past that and hes doing
great...reading more points than his goal and still wants to read
more. The grading issue is different this year and he doesnt feel
the pressure that he did last year. It's a big difference. Thats my
point... Carrot vs Whip....

On 1/06/11, Missed the point & done with Fireman dad wrote:
> Would I be concerned?....I would HOPE that my FATHER would be
> concerned and get out of the situation-by transferring to a
> different station. Didn't I already go over this with you? PUT
> YOUR CHILD IN A PLACEMENT THAT SUITS YOU BOTH!!!! LEAVE THE
> CURRENT SITUATION IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY> You will not be able to
> change city hall. Nor will you singlehandedly close-down
> Renaissance Learning, you will NOT get the ending that you wish.
> After last year, hasn't your child been assigned to a new teacher?
> new year, new day? New attitude? Why have you failed to move-on
> and get a new hobby instead of patrolling a teacher's board with
> your negative attitude. Maybe its those crazy firefighter hours?
> get a 9-5 if you can't handle the heat!
> Hmmm...as per your silly question... pour kerosene on a
> fire???...let's see. If that was the order that my father was
> given, and he disagreed with the chief's order, then he could do
> precisely what I suggested you do- LEAVE! If you want to make
> changes, then BE THE CHIEF. Put up or Shut Up! You don't like the
> free public education system provided in America for your child?-
> Then find another placement. If you have such a problem with AR
> and you think you could do a better job ...then go to school, get
> a teaching degree, teach for a while, and implement change. That's
> how change happens. Obviously the people with the "know how" at
> the top have faith in what they are doing, and you seem to be the
> only one, looking "in" from the outside, who has a problem with it.
> As I always say: there are three things you can do;
> 1. Change the situation
> 2. Change how you FEEL about the situation
> or 3. feel bad.
> Looks like you're stuck in option three, so there will be no end
> to your terrible, lifelong misery. Oh wait...your kid will GROW
> up, and you will need to find something else to have a "terrible,
> horrible, no good. very bad day" about. If you read to your child,
> you should know where THAT came from. :) I'll give you a hint- ITS
> AN A.R. BOOK!!!!!!! (gasp)
> On 1/05/11, If the liutenant and chief had ever ordered your Dad
> wrote:
>> to douse fires with kerosene, wouldn't you be concerned?
>>
>> On 1/05/11, NYFD Daughter wrote:
>>> OK Fireman Dad, I admire your profession. I'm the daughter
>>> of a NYC Firefighter who has "seen the light" in the line
>>> of duty. Never in a million years would I question my
>>> dad's methods, strength, devotion, dedication, or
>>> willingness to "work" at his job. He's on duty- he works.
>>> The alarm sounds, he goes. He chose his profession, as I
>>> did mine. Until 9/11, I would hear, "Oh, your dad's just
>>> a firefighter?" A blue collar job. I, fortunately, knew
>>> there was MUCH more to firefighting, and MUCH more to what
>>> goes on in the profession than those "naysayers" because I
>>> lived with one. People who have NO idea what really goes
>>> on, should judge not. (see where this is going?)
>>>
>>> Is my dad in "charge" of Engine Co.302, Ladder Co. 155?
>>> NOPE. Drives the pumper. Takes his orders from the
>>> Lieutenant, and the chief. Teachers take their orders
>>> about curriculum decisions and reading programs from the
>>> principal, the School Board, the Superintendent, the
>>> Office of Curriculum and Instruction- NOT parents. Just as
>>> the Fire Department does not take its orders from the
>>> general public, or by "popular vote" of the neighborhood
>>> clientele they serve, neither does the Office of
>>> Curriculum and Instruction. If teachers are told to use
>>> AR a certain way, they MUST.
>>>
>>> With the 'final order' comes training, materials, a
>>> pacing guide, and the "rationale" of 'how, when and why'
>>> we do what we do. (Do you recall firefighter's academy?
>>> Training. Real-life, hands-on training! Unless you've had
>>> it, you can't possibly know.) My point is, you can read,
>>> listen, talk, think-you-know, and question the art and
>>> science of teaching until you are blue in the face, and
>>> hide behind the guise of "I'm doing this for my kid..."
>>> all you want. But, until you've been "at the academy" and
>>> have been on the front lines, you really don't know.
>>>
>>> Fortunately, as a parent, you have the right to a free
>>> public education in America. You also have the freedom to
>>> chose an alternative educational setting, should you so
>>> desire. If you find that it is not a "perfect fit"- you
>>> can choose a more appropriate one "on behalf of your
>>> child". To parallel that, if a "neighborhood resident"
>>> does not feel that their neighborhood firehouse is
>>> providing adequately trained firemen, or that the firemen
>>> just "sit around all day not responding to fires"...then
>>> they have the right to move someplace where they feel
>>> safer. It's an opinion. It's what you "think" you see, or
>>> what you "think you've heard or know." A "little match of
>>> information" in the wrong hands can be dangerous. (namely,
>>> yours)
>>>
>>> Teaching is not an easy profession, and although it is not
>>> life-or-death on a daily basis, we have the stress of
>>> being responsible for the future "firefighters, doctors,
>>> lawyers, parents and politicians."
>>> My question to Fireman Dad...after all this time, why are
>>> you continuing to "start fires" about something you know a
>>> little about? Why not be part of the solution? Why don't
>>> you stop "blowing smoke" and start to work WITH your
>>> child's teacher? Otherwise, this whole argument needs to
>>> be extinguished....
>>> Proud and THANKFUL NYFD Daughter
>>> who spent MANY sleepless nights worried about dad
>>>
>>> On 12/29/10, Fireman Dad wrote:
>>>> On 12/29/10, Deb, why are you even wasting your time?
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Fireman dad does not want to hear anything he
>>>>> disagrees with so why are you even bothering?
>>>>
>>>> Neither do you !!
>>>>
>>>> Those of us who know what it is like in the classroom
>>> and
>>>>> know how well AR works getting kids to read and know
>>>>> the benefits of the program stopped wasting our time
>>>>> reasoning with him so you should do the same and
>>>>> enjoy your holiday break.
>>>>
>>>> The way you use AR, Ar doesnt get kids to read...YOU
>>>> get kids to read...there is a difference. Anyone will
>>>> read if they are threatened, but getting them to read
>>>> because they want to is different.... That was my
>>>> initial point when this whole thing began.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/29/10, whoa, Nellie wrote:
>>>>>> Not so fast there. You were discrediting what was
>>>>>> said in the other thread about the comparison given
>>>>>> not being legit. As a reading specialist you should
>>>>>> know context is EVERYTHING in comprehension. Look
>>>>>> at what the poster said when saying the comment was
>>>>>> not legit, "No comparison there between a
>>>>>> discussion with a teacher and a fireman while he is
>>>>>> trying to put out a fire. " Do you notice that
>>>>>> the comment was about the comparison was while the
>>>>>> fireman was putting out the fire not about the
>>>>>> comparison between firefighters and teachers in
>>>>>> general?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't say your example didn't happen, but you
>>>>>> did change the scenario under which the comment was
>>>>>> made that comparing a teacher to a fireman was not
>>>>>> legit - you removed the context, put it in another
>>>>>> thread, and placed the discussion with the
>>>>>> firefighter AFTER the fire was out and in the
>>>>>> investigatory phase. This is diversionary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also must ask, is a discussion between a teacher
>>>>>> regarding how the student/child is reacting to the
>>>>>> methods used by the teacher anywhere the same as
>>>>>> inteferring with an investigation to rule out
>>>>>> crime? How is asking questions inteferring with
>>>>>> investigations? Lying to an investigator is
>>>>>> inteferring, stopping them in the middle of what
>>>>>> they are doing may be interferring, but most times
>>>>>> when it comes to conferences with teachers it isn't
>>>>>> during instruction time unlike what you are
>>>>>> suggesting with the investigation. And I don't
>>>>>> believe asking questions of the investigator will
>>>>>> result in you getting arrested for doing so. They
>>>>>> may not answer your questions because it is an
>>>>>> investigation - much different than instruction of
>>>>>> students - but surely you cannot be arrested unless
>>>>>> you make yourself look like a suspect by the types
>>>>>> of questions you ask. Are you suggesting that
>>>>>> parents should be arrested if they question the
>>>>>> teachers too much? Are you saying that the public
>>>>>> shouldn't question the fire investigator if it is
>>>>>> obvious he is doing something wrong in fear that
>>>>>> the person might be arrested?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Explain how questions from parents impede
>>>>>> instruction? Cuts into your contract time so you
>>>>>> can't grade papers? Knowing that there is a problem
>>>>>> with the student isn't part of your job?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/29/10, Deb ms/IA wrote:
>>>>>>> I wasn't changing any scenario. I was simply
>>>>>>> stating that the comparison between a fireman and
>>>>>>> teach is legit. Two professionals being
>>>>>>> interrupted by laymen while on the job as that
>>>>>>> professional. There is no comprehension problem
>>>>>>> because it is a simple comparison. Do you have a
>>>>>>> problem making connections between to
>>>>>>> professions? The comparison had nothing to do
>>>>>>> with hooking up the hose, it had to with
>>>>>>> questioning a fire fighter as he was doing his
>>>>>>> job.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Diversionary tactic? Nope, just an honest
>>>>>>> comparison between a teacher and a fire fighter
>>>>>>> doing their jobs. What is your problem with this
>>>>>>> comparison?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did not make up my story. I had a set of twins
>>>>>>> in their home with 4 other people when an idiot
>>>>>>> fire bombed the house the week before Christmas.
>>>>>>> I applied a real life event to further SUPPORT my
>>>>>>> stance that comparing a fireman and a teacher
>>>>>>> doing their jobs and being questioned by lay
>>>>>>> people, could impede the professional job they
>>>>>>> do. It does not matter the scene presented at the
>>>>>>> fire. If a lay person was questioning the fire
>>>>>>> fighters course of action his/her job would be
>>>>>>> impeded. The exact same thing can happen in a
>>>>>>> classroom. There is nothing hidden nor
>>>>>>> diversionary in this post. I do NOT struggle with
>>>>>>> any reading or comprehension but maybe you do??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Deb ms/IA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/29/10, whoa, Nellie - I mean Deb ms/IA wrote:
>>>>>>>> You said you were a reading specialist. Right?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why do you struggle to read and comprehend? The
>>>>>>>> post you are mentioning said that the fireman
>>>>>>>> would be questioned while trying to hook up the
>>>>>>>> hose to put out the fire.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you unable to read and comprehend or is
>>>>>>>> this a diversionary tactic to try to change the
>>>>>>>> story so no one would notice?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lynde said, "If I were to argue with the
>>>>>>>> fireman who came to put out my housefire, I
>>>>>>>> might not get the fire put out--he'd be too
>>>>>>>> busy justifying to me why he was going to pull
>>>>>>>> out the hose and hook it up to the
>>>>>>>> hydrant."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was unaware this was too complex of a
>>>>>>>> statement for a reading specialist to
>>>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Based on the actual comment that was made, not
>>>>>>>> your new made up scenario without any mention
>>>>>>>> of the actual statement, it does seem that a
>>>>>>>> questioning a teacher about methods and a
>>>>>>>> fireman at the time he is putting out a fire is
>>>>>>>> really not a suitable comparison.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/29/10, Deb ms/IA who forgot one point wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Comparing a teacher to a fireman IS a fair
>>>>>>>>> comparison.
>>>>>>>> I had
>>>>>>>>> two students rendered homeless when a weirdo
>>>>>>>>> fire bombed their house the week before
>>>>>>>>> Christmas. They spent the holiday in a hotel
>>>>>>>>> until things were cleared and the fire
>>>>>>>>> marshal and police did their investigations.
>>>>>>>>> It was mostly outside damage but some
>>>>>>>>> electric and other problems. Had I, the
>>>>>>>>> untrained layman, tried to question
>>>>>>>>> everything these professionals did I would be
>>>>>>>>> arrested for impeding an investigation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A teacher must meet the needs of diverse
>>>>>>>>> students and then a parent comes and
>>>>>>>>> questions what is being done in the
>>>>>>>>> classroom. Helicopter parent, meddling
>>>>>>>>> parent, PITA parent but nonetheless a layman
>>>>>>>>> in terms of the teaching profession. Teachers
>>>>>>>>> take this harrassment far more than they
>>>>>>>>> should because it comes from the top down and
>>>>>>>>> from parents.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As to the comparison of a foreman to a
>>>>>>>>> teacher, both are professionals being
>>>>>>>>> questioned by lay people with no training in
>>>>>>>>> the field. So this comparison can stand the
>>>>>>>>> test.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Deb ms/IA
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
 

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