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Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do?
Posted by DL on 9/05/08

So, things haven't improved for my seventh graders. Like I said
before, I am on an A/B schedule and teach a total of 10
classes. (Don't get me started on that). Eight out of those ten
classes are stress-free. My 6th graders are doing really well.
My 8th graders put up some resistance at first, but once they
saw I wasn't backing down this year, they started to adapt to
the changes.

I see one group right after lunch and the other group is the
last period of the day. It is not that they are disrespectful
in the spiteful since. It is just that they are the socialites
of all socialites and just cannot shut up. Every time I say
something, 10 kids have to make comments about it. Chaos.
Unlike my SIXTH graders doing the SAME assignments during the
first two weeks of school, a segment of these 7th graders (who
are honors students by the way) just don't have the ability to
think on their own and must ask questions about everything.
I've done the procedures thing, and they still don't follow
them. I had them do an assignment where they write a brief
description of their procedures and rate their performance of
them (that I got from another poster on this board). I've set
high expectations. I've consistently implemented consequences
(need support/respect, move here, go to Ms. X's class until
your ready to support us). Nothing works. The teacher who I flip
classes with every other day is struggling just as much as me
with these 7th graders while the other classes are nice.

The new administrator that came into the class last week is now
coming off as judging my whole classroom management abilities
off the problems with these 2 out of my 10 classes. I hope I'm
wrong about that. (I'll probably bring up my concerns about
that in another post).

.......

On 8/29/08, Tom wrote:
> DL,
>
> Thanks for all those answers!
>
> I think you've hit on several keys. 1) You MUST have
> consequences, not just repeated instructions that are then
> ignored, and 2) Rapport and interest in the students as
> individuals will really help you achieve the goal of
> mutual respect, and 3) Talking to them human-to-human in
> that heart-to-heart is also so important.
>
> Questions: What are your exact step by step consequences?
> Do you enforce them vigilantly and consistently?
>
> Do consider the 'counting the seconds' technique, along
> with everything else. It sounds like you've got a
> combination of kids who don't yet respect you, combined
> with personal energy not quite communicating that
> assertive confidence that will convince the kids that
> you're in charge.
>
> If this is helpful, please keep this dialogue going. And
> have a great weekend -- you will get there (I'm with Zodea
> on that one)!
>
> All my best,
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
> On 8/29/08, DL wrote:
>> Answers in CAPS
>>> Hi DL,
>>>
>>> Hmmm. It's tough to diagnose and suggest without
>>> actually observing, but here are a couple of thoughts
>>> and questions:
>>>
>>> *What's your 'energy' like? Do you come off as strong
>>> and confident, or are you communicating fear,
>>> frustration, and irritability?
>>
>> MY STUDENTS KNOW ME AS VERY ENERGETIC. SOMETIMES, I
>> FEEL LIKE IT KIND OF CONTRIBUTES TO THE HIGH ENERGY OF
>> MY CLASSES. I AM GOING TO TRY TO TONE IT DOWN A LITTLE
>> BIT, AT LEAST IN THE BEGINNING.
>>
>>
>>> *How do you react when kids raise their hands or
>>> blurt out questions? Do they see you getting rattled?
>>> If so, a strong possibility exists that they're
>>> enjoying themselves -- making a game out of 'Who Can
>>> Get the Teacher to Crack First.'
>>
>> I USUALLY SAY "NO QUESTIONS" FOR A CERTAIN
>> TIME. FOR EXAMPLE, I TELL THEM NOT TO ASK QUESTIONS ON
>> THE WAY IN AND TO LET ME GET THROUGH SOMETHING BEFORE
>> THEY ASK QUESTIONS. SOMETIMES, I MAY BE PUTTING OUT OF
>> FRUSTRATION THAT SOME STUDENTS MAY FEED OFF ON, BUT
>> THEY DON'T HAVE THAT "PLAY WITH THE TEACHER"
>> EXPRESSION THAT I'VE SEEN AT OTHER TIMES.
>>
>>>
>>> *Asking questions is not USUALLY an unsupportive
>>> activity, so I wouldn't suggest you apply the steps.
>>> It's a separate issue, which you can address with
>>> buy-in and firm direction.
>>>
>>> *Re. their asking questions: You can 1) ignore them,
>>> 2) gesture to them that you'll get to them later, 3)
>>> let them know that their questions can be asked WHEN
>>> YOU SAY "Anybody have any questions?" 4)
>>> gesture for them to put their hands down if they
>>> raise them before you say that, 5) tell them that the
>>> questions blurted out ARE unsupportive, and you will
>>> be helping them to be more supportive if they blurt
>>> out.
>>
>> I'VE GONE OVER REASONS OVER AND OVER AGAIN, BUT THEY
>> KEEP ASKING THEM. I WAS FIRM TODAY IN NOT ANSWERING
>> QUESTIONS DURING THE SET OF TIME THAT I SAID I WOULDN'T
>> BE ANSWERING QUESTIONS.
>>
>>> *If you get to step 5 (which I presume you have
>>> because you've sent kids out, right?), consider
>>> telling them to have a chat with you before the next
>>> class. See my tome for what follows. If you have sent
>>> kids out BEFORE STEP 5, look at this as an indicator
>>> of frustration rather than a measured response.
>>>
>>> *Again, are you following the HD steps exactly, or
>>> are you creating your own, or acting impulsively
>>> based on your level of frustration?
>>
>> IT IS SORT OF MY OWN, BUT I ACT CONSISTENTLY. THEY KNOW
>> THE STEPS AND CHOICES THEY CAN MAKE IN ADVANCE.
>>> *Have you had a human-to-human heart-to-heart? If so,
>>> what do they have to say about what's going on in the
>>> room?
>>
>> I DID LAST YEAR. MAYBE I SHOULD TRY IT AGAIN.
>>> *You mentioned that you had used the
>>> supportive/unsupportive brainstorming as a bellringer
>>> activity. How long did you spend on it? Did the small
>>> groups come up and share with the class? What did you
>>> do when the sharing was over?
>>
>> THEY DID IT ON THEIR OWN FOR BELLWORK, AND THEN I HAD
>> STUDENTS DISCUSS BEHAVIORS. I TRIED TO GET THEM TO GIVE
>> NON-SCHOOL EXAMPLES AS WELL, SO THAT I COULD TRY TO
>> RELATE TO THEM IN THAT AREA. I THEN TRIED TO BRING IT
>> BACK TO THE CLASSROOM. I TOLD THEM THAT IT WAS NOT JUST
>> ABOUT THEM RESPECTING AND SUPPORTING ME, BUT THAT I HAD
>> AN OBLIGATION AND DESIRE TO RESPECT AND SUPPORT THEM.
>>>
>>> *Are you developing rapport? Making an effort to see
>>> them and connect with them as wonderful individuals?
>>> Do you stand at the door and welcome them in, making
>>> personal connections when possible?
>>
>> I WELCOME THEM AT THE DOOR EVERYDAY. I SOMETIMES GIVE
>> LITTLE STORIES ABOUT MYSELF. I PLAN TO GO TO SOME
>> ATHLETIC EVENTS. WHEN I MENTIONED THAT TO THE CLASS,
>> SOME OF THEM WERE HAPPY TO HEAR ME SAY THAT.
>>>
>>> *Are you consequencing with a calm smile, or are you
>>> consequencing as if you're punishing? If it's the
>>> latter, it won't work -- these consequences are your
>>> part of the Support agreement, not punishments. (If
>>> you didn't reach a Support agreement in the first
>>> place, you haven't engaged the gears yet.)
>>
>> IN MY OTHER CLASSES, IT WAS CALM, BUT NOT NECESSARILY
>> SMILING. IN THIS CLASS, IT STARTED THAT WAY, BUT IT
>> ESSENTIALLY TURNED INTO FRUSTRATION, WHICH I KNOW SOME
>> KIDS WERE PROBABLY FEEDING OFF OF.
>>>
>>> *Have you used strong Alpha energy with them?
>>> "EVERYBODY STOP TALKING AND STOP TALKING NOW!
>>> TOMMY, SIT DOWN." Then had the heart to heart?
>>
>> OH, I'VE DEFINITELY DONE THAT. BUT I NEED TO ADD THE
>> HEART TO HEART.
>>
>>> *Do you feel like the tennis racket, or the ball? If
>>> it's the ball, I propose you haven't manifested your
>>> personal 'leader' power yet. Do you feel like you
>>> have the right to be treated well? (Some teachers
>>> suffer in the self-esteem arena, not believing that
>>> they REALLY have the right to be heard.)
>>
>> IN THIS CLASS, I FEEL LIKE THE BALL.
>>
>>
>> Anyway, I know that some of the kids are trying to get
>> me to crack. After class, one kid came up to me and
>> told me that when we were practicing procedures, some
>> kids were saying that they should interrupt so that
>> they can ruin it. The kids that are mocking everything
>> I do are the driving force in that class. I've just got
>> to think of a way to reach out to them.
>>
>> I am glad that my administrator is there to support me
>> (because I know some of you might not be so lucky), but
>> now I kind of feel that him coming to the class kind of
>> undermined my authority in the classroom. I just feel
>> like some of the kids may be thinking that I've given
>> up or an powerless to maintain order now that I've had
>> to have the administrator come and lecture the class. I
>> hope that is not the case

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Posts on this thread, including this one


• switching seats, 8/23/08, by zodea.
• Re: switching seats, 8/23/08, by Tom.
• Re: switching seats, 8/25/08, by twh.
• Re: switching seats, 8/25/08, by Tom.
• Re: Which name game?, 8/25/08, by twh.
• Re: This name game!, 8/25/08, by Tom.
• Re: switching seats, 8/25/08, by zodea.
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 8/25/08, by oops...somehow posted the relpy on wrong thread.
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 8/25/08, by Tom.
• Re: Let your students earn free seating, 8/26/08, by Darren B..
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 8/27/08, by DL to Tom and whoever else.
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 8/27/08, by Tom.
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 8/27/08, by DL.
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 8/27/08, by Tom.
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 8/27/08, by DL.
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 8/27/08, by Tom.
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 8/29/08, by DL to Tom .
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 8/29/08, by Tom.
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 8/29/08, by DL.
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 8/29/08, by zodea.
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 8/29/08, by Tom.
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 9/05/08, by DL.
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 9/05/08, by Tom.
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 9/06/08, by sav teach.
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 9/06/08, by DL (sav teach and Tom).
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 9/06/08, by Tom.
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 9/06/08, by DL.
• Re: Bad class on the first day of school: What to do? , 9/11/08, by DL.