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Re: Am I asking for too much?
Posted by ACP on 9/04/08

It sounds like you had a fun week. ;) It is really
frustrating, isn't it! We have all been there and continue to
go there quite frequently. Keep in mind that it is easy for
us to make assumptions, we weren't there. So take what I say
with a bit of sodium chloride.

"Some of the kids complain it's art class why do I
have to write? This is only week 1! Week one I just have
tried to set rules and procedures and a tone for class."

I would say it depends on how you presented the rules. If the
kids have been sitting through a full week of "Rule #1: Come
to class on time," "Rule #2: Bring your supplies to class,"
"Rule #3: blah blah blah...," then their concerns may be
legitimate. A day or so of laying down the ground rules is
not unreasonable, but after that, I try to teach and rehearse
the procedures as they become necessary. For example, in your
case, you probably have a procedure for passing out paper
and/or supplies. I wouldn't teach this procedure until the
first time I actually passed out supplies. If you didn't kill
them with rules then they are just griping and looking to pull
you off task.

"They started to day ok doing bellwork etc and we reviewed
it, all was fine. My first class I had no problem with
all week. My other 2 classes deteriorated ! And I have
worst kids in those classes. We were doing an activity
where we introduced ourselves. It was going pretty good,
but some kids were talking. It got on my nerves. I asked
them to give their undivided attention to the speakers,
but it continued. Anyway I ended up giving a reflection form
to 2 of my worst talkers and they moaned that it was
unfair cause no one else got one."

The "unfair" defense is not uncommon. We see it in many
adults these days. In their minds it probably was unfair.
They rationalize their talking by blaming everyone else and
they want to engage you in an argument in front of the class.
Don't go there! Just smile and say, "Right now I am
addressing your behavior. If you would like to discuss it
further, see me after class/school." Then move on. Don't
engage them at this time. You can't reason with them now but
you may be able to later. As far as addressing the talking,
don't let it get on your nerves - you will lose it! Instead
just politely say, "Excuse me John, I am sorry I interrupted
you but we need to wait for the others to listen before you
continue." Then wait until it stops. Then say, "Ok John,
sorry, please continue." If the talking starts again, just
stop. If it continues more than twice or three times, then
address the individuals after class.

"I felt they had talked the most and deserved it first more
than any of the others. Then my plan was to go down the list
as I saw caught more talkers. Anyway one kid balled hers up,
so I handed her a detention."

First, I am not one for trying to force a student to write a
reflection during class. I know this is popular, but in my
mind it puts the teacher in a lose/win situation every time.
All the student has to do is refuse to accept the assignment,
then what? I probably wouldn't have given a detention at this
time either. This is a power struggle. The girl is saying,
"See you can't make me do this! I have more power than you
do!" The detention was, maybe a deserved response, but
none-the-less an emotional response. Keep your cool, smile and
say in a pleasant voice, "No problem, we'll talk about this
after class," then walk away. The student will want to
backtrack and engage you. Don't do it, just keep smiling and
say, "This discussion is over for now. We will discuss it
after class/school." By doing so, you have gotten the last
word and have taken back the power. Refusing to engage during
class and forcing the student to think about it and then deal
with the issue on your terms is the ultimate power. Add in a,
"You know, don't worry about it right now, we'll talk about it
later," really puts them in a defensive position. Guess what
they ARE going to be worrying about between now and the meeting?

"Then later a girl got up ready to fight another girl during
my power point on "welcome to art ". At that point I stopped
the powerpoint and I told them I wasn't going to have any
nonsense this semester, that it was "My House". They could do
things the easy way and we could have fun and make art or we
could read and write about art all semester. I asked them when
they come in next week are they going to be ready to work and
follow direction and they gave a "yes" but they wanted to be
released for their next class."

Yes a potential fight is something that must be dealt with
immediately. You did good there. Ok! Now the number one rule
of teaching: Never ever ever make a threat that you can't back
up or are not willing to implement. "Do things the easy way or
write about it all semester," is a threat that I really don't
think you can live with. It shows your frustration with the
situation and diminishing control. You would have been better
off to express your frustration as in, "OK everyone sit down
and stop talking...NOW," and then resetting expectations. I am
not sure about the release early thing. That seems to me to
almost be a reward for making a scene. If you think a real
fight was eminent, release one at the bell and hold one for a
half minute or so.

"I don't know why some kids choose to clown. Am I really going
to have to teach art from a book to these 2 classes??"

The human psyche is very complicated. Generally accepted
reasons for a lack of self control (outside of emotionally
disturbed children) are: 1) Attention seeking, 2) Battles for
power, 3) Revenge as in people hurt me so I am going to hurt
them, 4) To display inadequacy. I think the last one is a big
deal, especially for kids of poverty. Perhaps getting into the
more pleasant activities of art will help, but maybe not.
Sometimes the individuals and chemistry of a class just
creates a lot of tension. You may have to do some in depth
analysis of the situation and maybe ask to have some changes
made. But don't expect it to happen. Frequently we just end
up with those challenging classes that we have to keep working
with and trying to find something that works.

"I have to tell you these arent the brightest kids by any
means. Terrible writing, reading. Maybe I am asking them to do
too much, though I have tried to tone it down. But all I
really ask for is some respect and to respect each other. They
want their respect, where is mine??? This is just week one."

You are correct, it is only one week - so far! Give it some
time and you can possibly be one of those teachers that makes
a big difference. Accept that these challenges are going to
be part of your job even though you didn't sign up to be a
social worker per se. The "brightest" comment is not very PC
but it has merit. Along with poverty and low academic
achievement frequently comes poor communication skills, below
average social skills, and behavior issues. They all
intertwine. This is the challenge! Frequently, academics
becomes secondary to teaching social skills. The respect
comment is also valid. Students throw that word about pretty
loosely these days. To them it is all about them and
respecting what they want. They don't understand that respect
is primarily about how we treat others. Respect is something
you have to earn by unconditionally showing it to them and
teaching them what it means. It is a tough job.

Hang in there and keep at it. Lower the confrontation and
power quotients a little and show them that you are going to
be cool and pleasant no matter what. This doesn't mean roll
over and play dead, but just let them know that they are not
going to rattle you and you will deal with them on your terms.
"Praise in public/reprimand in private" has much merit. So
does "divide and conquer." Good luck!


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Posts on this thread, including this one


• Am I asking for too much?, 9/04/08, by Educated.
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/04/08, by ACP.
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/04/08, by Tom.
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/04/08, by EDucated.
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/04/08, by ACP.
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/06/08, by EDucated..
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/07/08, by ACP.
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/07/08, by Lee.
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/07/08, by Tom.
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/07/08, by DL.