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Re: Am I asking for too much?
Posted by EDucated on 9/04/08

Thanks for the advice. Perhaps I did bore them a little, but we
only met twice for 90 minutes each. Last year I would have
totally lost it. I only lost it a little this time. I'm trying
to be less confrontational , but they threw me off my game a
little today. I'll get back on it with my other classes
tomorrow. I will try these calmer approaches instead of getting
angry and into a power struggle. I always hate that.
My goal is to be more of a smiling budha this year. As far as
my "these kids are not bright" comment, I know they are likely
disadvantaged, some may have impairments, but they all have a
mind and I guess what really ticks me off is when they clown
around and don't try. I know the world they are going to face
if they don't take education seriously and thats what
frustrates me. I don't like seeing them throw their education
away even though I know I won't save them all. Taking deep
breathes, Ok let's begin again.

On 9/04/08, ACP wrote:
> It sounds like you had a fun week. ;) It is really
> frustrating, isn't it! We have all been there and continue to
> go there quite frequently. Keep in mind that it is easy for
> us to make assumptions, we weren't there. So take what I say
> with a bit of sodium chloride.
>
> "Some of the kids complain it's art class why do I
> have to write? This is only week 1! Week one I just have
> tried to set rules and procedures and a tone for class."
>
> I would say it depends on how you presented the rules. If the
> kids have been sitting through a full week of "Rule #1: Come
> to class on time," "Rule #2: Bring your supplies to class,"
> "Rule #3: blah blah blah...," then their concerns may be
> legitimate. A day or so of laying down the ground rules is
> not unreasonable, but after that, I try to teach and rehearse
> the procedures as they become necessary. For example, in your
> case, you probably have a procedure for passing out paper
> and/or supplies. I wouldn't teach this procedure until the
> first time I actually passed out supplies. If you didn't kill
> them with rules then they are just griping and looking to pull
> you off task.
>
>
> "They started to day ok doing bellwork etc and we reviewed
> it, all was fine. My first class I had no problem with
> all week. My other 2 classes deteriorated ! And I have
> worst kids in those classes. We were doing an activity
> where we introduced ourselves. It was going pretty good,
> but some kids were talking. It got on my nerves. I asked
> them to give their undivided attention to the speakers,
> but it continued. Anyway I ended up giving a reflection form
> to 2 of my worst talkers and they moaned that it was
> unfair cause no one else got one."
>
> The "unfair" defense is not uncommon. We see it in many
> adults these days. In their minds it probably was unfair.
> They rationalize their talking by blaming everyone else and
> they want to engage you in an argument in front of the class.
> Don't go there! Just smile and say, "Right now I am
> addressing your behavior. If you would like to discuss it
> further, see me after class/school." Then move on. Don't
> engage them at this time. You can't reason with them now but
> you may be able to later. As far as addressing the talking,
> don't let it get on your nerves - you will lose it! Instead
> just politely say, "Excuse me John, I am sorry I interrupted
> you but we need to wait for the others to listen before you
> continue." Then wait until it stops. Then say, "Ok John,
> sorry, please continue." If the talking starts again, just
> stop. If it continues more than twice or three times, then
> address the individuals after class.
>
> "I felt they had talked the most and deserved it first more
> than any of the others. Then my plan was to go down the list
> as I saw caught more talkers. Anyway one kid balled hers up,
> so I handed her a detention."
>
> First, I am not one for trying to force a student to write a
> reflection during class. I know this is popular, but in my
> mind it puts the teacher in a lose/win situation every time.
> All the student has to do is refuse to accept the assignment,
> then what? I probably wouldn't have given a detention at this
> time either. This is a power struggle. The girl is saying,
> "See you can't make me do this! I have more power than you
> do!" The detention was, maybe a deserved response, but
> none-the-less an emotional response. Keep your cool, smile and
> say in a pleasant voice, "No problem, we'll talk about this
> after class," then walk away. The student will want to
> backtrack and engage you. Don't do it, just keep smiling and
> say, "This discussion is over for now. We will discuss it
> after class/school." By doing so, you have gotten the last
> word and have taken back the power. Refusing to engage during
> class and forcing the student to think about it and then deal
> with the issue on your terms is the ultimate power. Add in a,
> "You know, don't worry about it right now, we'll talk about it
> later," really puts them in a defensive position. Guess what
> they ARE going to be worrying about between now and the
meeting?
>
> "Then later a girl got up ready to fight another girl during
> my power point on "welcome to art ". At that point I stopped
> the powerpoint and I told them I wasn't going to have any
> nonsense this semester, that it was "My House". They could do
> things the easy way and we could have fun and make art or we
> could read and write about art all semester. I asked them when
> they come in next week are they going to be ready to work and
> follow direction and they gave a "yes" but they wanted to be
> released for their next class."
>
> Yes a potential fight is something that must be dealt with
> immediately. You did good there. Ok! Now the number one rule
> of teaching: Never ever ever make a threat that you can't back
> up or are not willing to implement. "Do things the easy way or
> write about it all semester," is a threat that I really don't
> think you can live with. It shows your frustration with the
> situation and diminishing control. You would have been better
> off to express your frustration as in, "OK everyone sit down
> and stop talking...NOW," and then resetting expectations. I am
> not sure about the release early thing. That seems to me to
> almost be a reward for making a scene. If you think a real
> fight was eminent, release one at the bell and hold one for a
> half minute or so.
>
>
> "I don't know why some kids choose to clown. Am I really going
> to have to teach art from a book to these 2 classes??"
>
> The human psyche is very complicated. Generally accepted
> reasons for a lack of self control (outside of emotionally
> disturbed children) are: 1) Attention seeking, 2) Battles for
> power, 3) Revenge as in people hurt me so I am going to hurt
> them, 4) To display inadequacy. I think the last one is a big
> deal, especially for kids of poverty. Perhaps getting into the
> more pleasant activities of art will help, but maybe not.
> Sometimes the individuals and chemistry of a class just
> creates a lot of tension. You may have to do some in depth
> analysis of the situation and maybe ask to have some changes
> made. But don't expect it to happen. Frequently we just end
> up with those challenging classes that we have to keep working
> with and trying to find something that works.
>
>
> "I have to tell you these arent the brightest kids by any
> means. Terrible writing, reading. Maybe I am asking them to do
> too much, though I have tried to tone it down. But all I
> really ask for is some respect and to respect each other. They
> want their respect, where is mine??? This is just week one."
>
> You are correct, it is only one week - so far! Give it some
> time and you can possibly be one of those teachers that makes
> a big difference. Accept that these challenges are going to
> be part of your job even though you didn't sign up to be a
> social worker per se. The "brightest" comment is not very PC
> but it has merit. Along with poverty and low academic
> achievement frequently comes poor communication skills, below
> average social skills, and behavior issues. They all
> intertwine. This is the challenge! Frequently, academics
> becomes secondary to teaching social skills. The respect
> comment is also valid. Students throw that word about pretty
> loosely these days. To them it is all about them and
> respecting what they want. They don't understand that respect
> is primarily about how we treat others. Respect is something
> you have to earn by unconditionally showing it to them and
> teaching them what it means. It is a tough job.
>
> Hang in there and keep at it. Lower the confrontation and
> power quotients a little and show them that you are going to
> be cool and pleasant no matter what. This doesn't mean roll
> over and play dead, but just let them know that they are not
> going to rattle you and you will deal with them on your terms.
> "Praise in public/reprimand in private" has much merit. So
> does "divide and conquer." Good luck!


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Posts on this thread, including this one


• Am I asking for too much?, 9/04/08, by Educated.
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/04/08, by ACP.
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/04/08, by Tom.
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/04/08, by EDucated.
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/04/08, by ACP.
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/06/08, by EDucated..
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/07/08, by ACP.
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/07/08, by Lee.
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/07/08, by Tom.
• Re: Am I asking for too much?, 9/07/08, by DL.