Re: All

by Former Teacher and Parent

Dec 5, 2014

Teachers need to stop glorifying themselves, their careers and tenure at schools. Focus on the children ONLY for a change, and run clean, proper and structured programs. There are too many bad apples among us now who spoil this profession for the young minds coming into teaching. Its not me, myself and i..whatever happened to the greater good, community and the next generation?? Most children enjoy school and education, so please stop all the verbatim that this teaching career path is flooded with people. Are you so insecure and simple minded to understand that you are and have been hurting people instead of helping them? Your leisure time should be secondary to this humble once profession..So please stop talking about yourself, your golf game, entertainment, shopping and time off. I can tell you all that retirement will come soon enough...albeit to a lake house or an old age home.

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Granjero I can tell that you have had some very negative experiences and it does feel good to vent. I think that quite often, teachers would LOVE the opportunity to just focus on the children only and run clean, proper and structured programs (to Oxford or not to Oxford?). However, and I can only speak for myself, a substantial amount of the time I have in ...See MoreI can tell that you have had some very negative experiences and it does feel good to vent. I think that quite often, teachers would LOVE the opportunity to just focus on the children only and run clean, proper and structured programs (to Oxford or not to Oxford?). However, and I can only speak for myself, a substantial amount of the time I have in a day is spent doing paperwork, reporting data, attending meetings, serving on committees, and making unwanted adjustments to my teaching to comply with whatever standard the current PD zeitgeist happens to set. And that's not to say that any of these things are bad, in their own right - sometimes they can be very good. I'm sure that as a former teacher yourself you can relate to these distractions.

As you say, there are some really bad apples in the teaching profession. There always have been, and I'm sure that there always will be. The distractions mentioned above are reasons to be sure that some teachers struggle with the clean, structured, and proper (Oxford that time) programs, but are also not excuses for poor practice. It seems to me though that this is not a phenomenon unique to any one practice. As someone who has come to the teaching profession after working in other fields, I can say that there are bad apples in the construction profession, the medical profession, on stage crews, on coaching staffs, and in the practice of law. Each of these professions also have former members and stakeholders shouting into them in frustration that they should just embrace the nobility of their chosen profession and root out all of the dead weight.

I would further point out that in breakrooms and professional internet forums the world over there are conversations about golf, complaints about low pay, and frustrated rants about how people who don't do "this job" (whatever that job happens to be) don't get how hard it really is. The things that are frustrating you about the teaching profession are things that frustrate us about other human beings who think and behave differently than we do. Part of being a responsible part of society is learning to manage to work with and often in spite of those that behave differently than we do... But I digress :)

Any person browsing this forum can read what you've written and share some of your frustration and will easily picture one or two people they've worked with who they would qualify in their own judgement to be a "bad apple." It's interesting that when you think back to your own school career, you remember the best and the worst teachers - but that doesn't mean that those are all that are there! I disagree with the notion that there are "too many" of these bad apples in one sense, because they are in my own experience few and far between. I also agree with the notion in the sense that even one poor teacher is probably one too many - but again, the same case can be made of one poor surgeon, one poor lawyer, one poor barista, or one poor sanitation engineer.

The point I'd like to make, then, is this: I support and understand your frustration with the state of schooling - I truly do. However, this sort of finger shaking and scolding directed at an entire profession due to the actions of a minority is the exact kind of sentiment that continues to produce the poorly-conceived and ham-fisted educational initiatives that serve to generate an ever growing pile of government mandates that we teachers must meet to "prove" our "merit" as educators. The distractions I mentioned earlier are very real and they can have a deleterious and demoralizing effect on ALL educators - the good and the bad alike. If indeed you left the teaching profession, I am POSITIVE that the extraneous work outside of the job you thought you were being hired to do had at least some part to play in your decision to leave. It burns us out. All of us.

I do not take for myself in writing this admittedly long-winded response the mantle of a "great teacher" - I consider myself to be an adequate teacher. I have room to grow and will never be anywhere near perfect. The truth is that as long as we are all human beings working toward a better understanding of our world, none of us will ever be. The great teachers that you remember from your own experience may have had some natural ability - there is certainly that - but for the most part, excellent teachers develop over time with experience. The same can be said for excellent plumbers, excellent chefs, excellent taxi drivers, and excellent politicians (cognitive dissonance).

Ours is a noble profession. I can tell from the intent of your posting that you believe this as well. Please do be mindful that in this modern age, we as educators have very, very little say in what is ultimately required of us as decision making is increasingly centralized in an ever-surging quest for uniformity. There are myriad political considerations and matters of personal preference in play. You and I may not agree on many elements of that and probably would agree on others. In your posting you remember back to how things used to be, to notions of the greater good and societal benefit. I don't know where in the world you reside or what kinds of schools you've been in, or even at what levels you have taught. I do know that if you go into almost any school in the nation, you will find people of all varieties doing their level best to focus on exactly those things that not only used to be, but still are.

Regards, Granjero

Dec 10, 2014

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Leslie Very well said and i'll try and be brief, so not as to appear to paint us all with the same brush :).I really think if we keep things professional and engaging for our students we will at least bridge the problem area gap. We as educators are sometimes influenced by others externally,and this can be both good and not so good.In displaying a positiv...See MoreVery well said and i'll try and be brief, so not as to appear to paint us all with the same brush :).I really think if we keep things professional and engaging for our students we will at least bridge the problem area gap. We as educators are sometimes influenced by others externally,and this can be both good and not so good.In displaying a positive classroom image, I think if we can continue to produce excellent results and dispell some of these negative issues.

On 12/10/14, Granjero wrote: > I can tell that you have had some very negative experiences > and it does feel good to vent. I think that quite often, > teachers would LOVE the opportunity to just focus on the > children only and run clean, proper and structured programs > (to Oxford or not to Oxford?). However, and I can only speak > for myself, a substantial amount of the time I have in a day > is spent doing paperwork, reporting data, attending meetings, > serving on committees, and making unwanted adjustments to my > teaching to comply with whatever standard the current PD > zeitgeist happens to set. And that's not to say that any of > these things are bad, in their own right - sometimes they can > be very good. I'm sure that as a former teacher yourself you > can relate to these distractions. > > As you say, there are some really bad apples in the teaching > profession. There always have been, and I'm sure that there > always will be. The distractions mentioned above are reasons > to be sure that some teachers struggle with the clean, > structured, and proper (Oxford that time) programs, but are > also not excuses for poor practice. It seems to me though > that this is not a phenomenon unique to any one practice. As > someone who has come to the teaching profession after working > in other fields, I can say that there are bad apples in the > construction profession, the medical profession, on stage > crews, on coaching staffs, and in the practice of law. Each > of these professions also have former members and stakeholders > shouting into them in frustration that they should just > embrace the nobility of their chosen profession and root out > all of the dead weight. > > I would further point out that in breakrooms and professional > internet forums the world over there are conversations about > golf, complaints about low pay, and frustrated rants about how > people who don't do "this job" (whatever that job happens to > be) don't get how hard it really is. The things that are > frustrating you about the teaching profession are things that > frustrate us about other human beings who think and behave > differently than we do. Part of being a responsible part of > society is learning to manage to work with and often in spite > of those that behave differently than we do... But I digress :) > > Any person browsing this forum can read what you've written > and share some of your frustration and will easily picture one > or two people they've worked with who they would qualify in > their own judgement to be a "bad apple." It's interesting > that when you think back to your own school career, you > remember the best and the worst teachers - but that doesn't > mean that those are all that are there! I disagree with the > notion that there are "too many" of these bad apples in one > sense, because they are in my own experience few and far > between. I also agree with the notion in the sense that even > one poor teacher is probably one too many - but again, the > same case can be made of one poor surgeon, one poor lawyer, > one poor barista, or one poor sanitation engineer. > > The point I'd like to make, then, is this: I support and > understand your frustration with the state of schooling - I > truly do. However, this sort of finger shaking and scolding > directed at an entire profession due to the actions of a > minority is the exact kind of sentiment that continues to > produce the poorly-conceived and ham-fisted educational > initiatives that serve to generate an ever growing pile of > government mandates that we teachers must meet to "prove" our > "merit" as educators. The distractions I mentioned earlier > are very real and they can have a deleterious and demoralizing > effect on ALL educators - the good and the bad alike. If > indeed you left the teaching profession, I am POSITIVE that > the extraneous work outside of the job you thought you were > being hired to do had at least some part to play in your > decision to leave. It burns us out. All of us. > > I do not take for myself in writing this admittedly > long-winded response the mantle of a "great teacher" - I > consider myself to be an adequate teacher. I have room to > grow and will never be anywhere near perfect. The truth is > that as long as we are all human beings working toward a > better understanding of our world, none of us will ever be. > The great teachers that you remember from your own experience > may have had some natural ability - there is certainly that - > but for the most part, excellent teachers develop over time > with experience. The same can be said for excellent plumbers, > excellent chefs, excellent taxi drivers, and excellent > politicians (cognitive dissonance). > > Ours is a noble profession. I can tell from the intent of > your posting that you believe this as well. Please do be > mindful that in this modern age, we as educators have very, > very little say in what is ultimately required of us as > decision making is increasingly centralized in an ever-surging > quest for uniformity. There are myriad political > considerations and matters of personal preference in play. > You and I may not agree on many elements of that and probably > would agree on others. In your posting you remember back to > how things used to be, to notions of the greater good and > societal benefit. I don't know where in the world you reside > or what kinds of schools you've been in, or even at what > levels you have taught. I do know that if you go into almost > any school in the nation, you will find people of all > varieties doing their level best to focus on exactly those > things that not only used to be, but still are. > > Regards, > Granjero

Dec 22, 2014

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Madge II've been accused of being nosey before but nothing quite like this?? Some of us do have a bad habit of drifting out of our lanes from time to time, but that's not the majority. In general I think we all mean well for our students growth, so it's really not fair to generalize when making blanket statements.

On 12/22/14, Leslie wrote: >...See MoreII've been accused of being nosey before but nothing quite like this?? Some of us do have a bad habit of drifting out of our lanes from time to time, but that's not the majority. In general I think we all mean well for our students growth, so it's really not fair to generalize when making blanket statements.

On 12/22/14, Leslie wrote: > Very well said and i'll try and be > brief, so not as to appear to paint > us all with the same brush :).I > really think if we keep things > professional and engaging for our > students we will at least bridge > the problem area gap. We as > educators are sometimes influenced > by others externally,and this can > be both good and not so good.In > displaying a positive classroom > image, I think if we can continue > to produce excellent results and > dispell some of these negative > issues. > > > > On 12/10/14, Granjero wrote: >> I can tell that you have had some > very negative experiences >> and it does feel good to vent. I > think that quite often, >> teachers would LOVE the > opportunity to just focus on the >> children only and run clean, > proper and structured programs >> (to Oxford or not to Oxford?). > However, and I can only speak >> for myself, a substantial amount > of the time I have in a day >> is spent doing paperwork, > reporting data, attending meetings, >> serving on committees, and making > unwanted adjustments to my >> teaching to comply with whatever > standard the current PD >> zeitgeist happens to set. And > that's not to say that any of >> these things are bad, in their > own right - sometimes they can >> be very good. I'm sure that as a > former teacher yourself you >> can relate to these distractions. >> >> As you say, there are some really > bad apples in the teaching >> profession. There always have > been, and I'm sure that there >> always will be. The distractions > mentioned above are reasons >> to be sure that some teachers > struggle with the clean, >> structured, and proper (Oxford > that time) programs, but are >> also not excuses for poor > practice. It seems to me though >> that this is not a phenomenon > unique to any one practice. As >> someone who has come to the > teaching profession after working >> in other fields, I can say that > there are bad apples in the >> construction profession, the > medical profession, on stage >> crews, on coaching staffs, and in > the practice of law. Each >> of these professions also have > former members and stakeholders >> shouting into them in frustration > that they should just >> embrace the nobility of their > chosen profession and root out >> all of the dead weight. >> >> I would further point out that in > breakrooms and professional >> internet forums the world over > there are conversations about >> golf, complaints about low pay, > and frustrated rants about how >> people who don't do "this job" > (whatever that job happens to >> be) don't get how hard it really > is. The things that are >> frustrating you about the > teaching profession are things that >> frustrate us about other human > beings who think and behave >> differently than we do. Part of > being a responsible part of >> society is learning to manage to > work with and often in spite >> of those that behave differently > than we do... But I digress :) >> >> Any person browsing this forum > can read what you've written >> and share some of your > frustration and will easily picture > one >> or two people they've worked with > who they would qualify in >> their own judgement to be a "bad > apple." It's interesting >> that when you think back to your > own school career, you >> remember the best and the worst > teachers - but that doesn't >> mean that those are all that are > there! I disagree with the >> notion that there are "too many" > of these bad apples in one >> sense, because they are in my own > experience few and far >> between. I also agree with the > notion in the sense that even >> one poor teacher is probably one > too many - but again, the >> same case can be made of one poor > surgeon, one poor lawyer, >> one poor barista, or one poor > sanitation engineer. >> >> The point I'd like to make, then, > is this: I support and >> understand your frustration with > the state of schooling - I >> truly do. However, this sort of > finger shaking and scolding >> directed at an entire profession > due to the actions of a >> minority is the exact kind of > sentiment that continues to >> produce the poorly-conceived and > ham-fisted educational >> initiatives that serve to > generate an ever growing pile of >> government mandates that we > teachers must meet to "prove" our >> "merit" as educators. The > distractions I mentioned earlier >> are very real and they can have a > deleterious and demoralizing >> effect on ALL educators - the > good and the bad alike. If >> indeed you left the teaching > profession, I am POSITIVE that >> the extraneous work outside of > the job you thought you were >> being hired to do had at least > some part to play in your >> decision to leave. It burns us > out. All of us. >> >> I do not take for myself in > writing this admittedly >> long-winded response the mantle > of a "great teacher" - I >> consider myself to be an adequate > teacher. I have room to >> grow and will never be anywhere > near perfect. The truth is >> that as long as we are all human > beings working toward a >> better understanding of our > world, none of us will ever be. >> The great teachers that you > remember from your own experience >> may have had some natural ability > - there is certainly that - >> but for the most part, excellent > teachers develop over time >> with experience. The same can be > said for excellent plumbers, >> excellent chefs, excellent taxi > drivers, and excellent >> politicians (cognitive > dissonance). >> >> Ours is a noble profession. I can > tell from the intent of >> your posting that you believe > this as well. Please do be >> mindful that in this modern age, > we as educators have very, >> very little say in what is > ultimately required of us as >> decision making is increasingly > centralized in an ever-surging >> quest for uniformity. There are > myriad political >> considerations and matters of > personal preference in play. >> You and I may not agree on many > elements of that and probably >> would agree on others. In your > posting you remember back to >> how things used to be, to notions > of the greater good and >> societal benefit. I don't know > where in the world you reside >> or what kinds of schools you've > been in, or even at what >> levels you have taught. I do know > that if you go into almost >> any school in the nation, you > will find people of all >> varieties doing their level best > to focus on exactly those >> things that not only used to be, > but still are. >> >> Regards, >> Granjero

Jan 3, 2015

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