Re: Manipulation

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High School Teachers Chatboard

Manipulation

by Kadi

Dec 6, 2014

Hello,

I'm struggling with 2 girls in one of my classes. They are openly hostile toward me & have been since August. One girl is very dominant, quite a bully actually. Any imperfection on my part is loudly and nastily called out, to the point that I don't want to speak in Spanish, which I'm supposed to be doing 100&37;. They are intimidating the other students as well & no one will raise their hands to participate.

Tuesday, the 2 girls defiantly refused to put their hoods down in, then made lots of snarky comments. I called security, as 1 of the girls sees him as a mentor. The other girl responded defiantly, so I put her on notice that any further defiance or rudeness would result in a parent conference. She returned to work quietly. The other girl cried hysterically, pacing, yelling about problems at home. When she returned, she sobbed for the rest of class, when I asked her if I could help, she screamed at me to leave her alone. I did a counselor referr...See MoreHello,

I'm struggling with 2 girls in one of my classes. They are openly hostile toward me & have been since August. One girl is very dominant, quite a bully actually. Any imperfection on my part is loudly and nastily called out, to the point that I don't want to speak in Spanish, which I'm supposed to be doing 100&37;. They are intimidating the other students as well & no one will raise their hands to participate.

Tuesday, the 2 girls defiantly refused to put their hoods down in, then made lots of snarky comments. I called security, as 1 of the girls sees him as a mentor. The other girl responded defiantly, so I put her on notice that any further defiance or rudeness would result in a parent conference. She returned to work quietly. The other girl cried hysterically, pacing, yelling about problems at home. When she returned, she sobbed for the rest of class, when I asked her if I could help, she screamed at me to leave her alone. I did a counselor referral for her & a student study team referral as well. Both of these girls behaved the same last year in the prior level class, one bragged that she "went off on (her teacher) last year" and asked what I'd do, telling me that "nothing happened" last year. I told her that something did happen, that she damaged that relationship, couldn't ask that teacher for a recommendation, and that my expectation is that in my room we treat each other with respect. I don't think she was impressed.

I am upset daily by this situation. Unfortunately, they seem to stop just short of what I could write a referral for. The school where I work is not easy- a lot of gang issues & a district rife with corruption, incompetence & indifference to the staff and students.

Spoke with a colleague & she suggested separating them as much as possible in class or alternatively, putting them together & away from others so they cause each other to fail. She also suggested that when they do the borderline nasty stuff, to call them out on it hard, which may provoke a more dramatic reaction that I could use to kick them out. Not sure how I feel about those ideas, want to keep my own integrity. But what I'm doing is not working.

I just want to know how to have them not get under my skin. I'm in a difficult situation where I'm Anglo & have been assigned the native speaker Spanish classes, which makes me self conscious. The other Spanish teachers are all native speakers, but don't want to teach these classes because they had frustrating disrespectful experiences. For me, 2 out of 3 classes are great & I enjoy them, and even this class with the 2 girls, the other students are respectful. So, I'm not getting it all wrong, though I hate having to teach that class.

Honestly, I am also very tired, struggling with personal health issues, and several family members are ill as well. I don't have energy to throw away on these 2 unpleasant students. Suggestions? I can't take a leave of absence or find another job, so please don't suggest those options, thanks.

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whomever I know things are different in different schools, but why can't you write them up? I could write them up for disrespect, of if they continue to do something after specifically asking them not to do it: failure to follow teacher directions.

Who have you talked with to figure out your options? I'd find the person in charge of disciple and e...See MoreI know things are different in different schools, but why can't you write them up? I could write them up for disrespect, of if they continue to do something after specifically asking them not to do it: failure to follow teacher directions.

Who have you talked with to figure out your options? I'd find the person in charge of disciple and explain what is going on. Tell them you will be sending one of both of them up because of the ongoing problems. Our dean of students is very supportive.

I'd also ask guidance if there is a way to get them in separate classes or even to a different teacher. I'd also ask the guidance people to talk to them and explain that there has been a complaint about their harassment and let them know that if it continues, legal options can be perused. Just because they are high school students, does not mean they don't have to follow the anti bullying laws. Students can bully/harass a teacher.

Remember, just because the girls say there isn't anything you can do to them, doesn't make it true. Maybe you should film yourself teaching the class and get their antics on record. Hold a parent meeting and show them how their children act in class. Find out if they are involved in any activities. Share their behavior with the coach/moderator.

One last note: I remember meeting where teachers were complaining about a student. The were saying that because of their terrible behavior and grades they should go to an alternative school. Our dean of students said it was really hard to do that because the student hadn't received any detentions the entire year. He asked how he could call the parents if there was no record of a problem.

It is important to have official documentation of their behavior. Good Luck~

On 12/06/14, Kadi wrote: > Hello, > > I'm struggling with 2 girls in one of my classes. They are > openly hostile toward me & have been since August. > One girl is very dominant, quite a bully actually. Any > imperfection on my part is loudly and nastily called out, to > the point that I don't want to speak in Spanish, which I'm > supposed to be doing 100&37;. They are intimidating the > other students as well & no one will raise their hands to > participate. > > Tuesday, the 2 girls defiantly refused to put their hoods > down in, then made lots of snarky comments. I called > security, as 1 of the girls sees him as a mentor. The other > girl responded defiantly, so I put her on notice that any > further defiance or rudeness would result in a parent > conference. She returned to work quietly. The other girl > cried hysterically, pacing, yelling about problems at home. > When she returned, she sobbed for the rest of class, > when I asked her if I could help, she screamed at me to > leave her alone. I did a counselor referral for her & a > student study team referral as well. Both of these girls > behaved the same last year in the prior level class, one > bragged that she "went off on (her teacher) last year" and > asked what I'd do, telling me that "nothing happened" last > year. I told her that something did happen, that she > damaged that relationship, couldn't ask that teacher for a > recommendation, and that my expectation is that in my > room we treat each other with respect. I don't think she > was impressed. > > I am upset daily by this situation. Unfortunately, they > seem to stop just short of what I could write a referral for. > The school where I work is not easy- a lot of gang issues > & a district rife with corruption, incompetence & > indifference to the staff and students. > > Spoke with a colleague & she suggested separating them > as much as possible in class or alternatively, putting them > together & away from others so they cause each other to > fail. She also suggested that when they do the borderline > nasty stuff, to call them out on it hard, which may provoke > a more dramatic reaction that I could use to kick them > out. Not sure how I feel about those ideas, want to keep > my own integrity. But what I'm doing is not working. > > I just want to know how to have them not get under my > skin. I'm in a difficult situation where I'm Anglo & have > been assigned the native speaker Spanish classes, which > makes me self conscious. The other Spanish teachers > are all native speakers, but don't want to teach these > classes because they had frustrating disrespectful > experiences. For me, 2 out of 3 classes are great & I > enjoy them, and even this class with the 2 girls, the other > students are respectful. So, I'm not getting it all wrong, > though I hate having to teach that class. > > Honestly, I am also very tired, struggling with personal > health issues, and several family members are ill as well. > I don't have energy to throw away on these 2 unpleasant > students. Suggestions? I can't take a leave of absence > or find another job, so please don't suggest those options, > thanks.

Dec 7, 2014

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Craig M. Sloan On 12/06/14, Kadi wrote: > Hello, > > I'm struggling with 2 girls in one of my classes. They are > openly hostile toward me & have been since August. > One girl is very dominant, quite a bully actually. Any > imperfection on my part is loudly and nastily called out, to > the point that I don't want to speak in Spanish, whic...See MoreOn 12/06/14, Kadi wrote: > Hello, > > I'm struggling with 2 girls in one of my classes. They are > openly hostile toward me & have been since August. > One girl is very dominant, quite a bully actually. Any > imperfection on my part is loudly and nastily called out, to > the point that I don't want to speak in Spanish, which I'm > supposed to be doing 100&37;. They are intimidating the > other students as well & no one will raise their hands to > participate. > > Tuesday, the 2 girls defiantly refused to put their hoods > down in, then made lots of snarky comments. I called > security, as 1 of the girls sees him as a mentor. The other > girl responded defiantly, so I put her on notice that any > further defiance or rudeness would result in a parent > conference. She returned to work quietly. The other girl > cried hysterically, pacing, yelling about problems at home. > When she returned, she sobbed for the rest of class, > when I asked her if I could help, she screamed at me to > leave her alone. I did a counselor referral for her & a > student study team referral as well. Both of these girls > behaved the same last year in the prior level class, one > bragged that she "went off on (her teacher) last year" and > asked what I'd do, telling me that "nothing happened" last > year. I told her that something did happen, that she > damaged that relationship, couldn't ask that teacher for a > recommendation, and that my expectation is that in my > room we treat each other with respect. I don't think she > was impressed. > > I am upset daily by this situation. Unfortunately, they > seem to stop just short of what I could write a referral for. > The school where I work is not easy- a lot of gang issues > & a district rife with corruption, incompetence & > indifference to the staff and students. > > Spoke with a colleague & she suggested separating them > as much as possible in class or alternatively, putting them > together & away from others so they cause each other to > fail. She also suggested that when they do the borderline > nasty stuff, to call them out on it hard, which may provoke > a more dramatic reaction that I could use to kick them > out. Not sure how I feel about those ideas, want to keep > my own integrity. But what I'm doing is not working. > > I just want to know how to have them not get under my > skin. I'm in a difficult situation where I'm Anglo & have > been assigned the native speaker Spanish classes, which > makes me self conscious. The other Spanish teachers > are all native speakers, but don't want to teach these > classes because they had frustrating disrespectful > experiences. For me, 2 out of 3 classes are great & I > enjoy them, and even this class with the 2 girls, the other > students are respectful. So, I'm not getting it all wrong, > though I hate having to teach that class. > > Honestly, I am also very tired, struggling with personal > health issues, and several family members are ill as well. > I don't have energy to throw away on these 2 unpleasant > students. Suggestions? I can't take a leave of absence > or find another job, so please don't suggest those options, > thanks.

I'm sorry to hear that you are having such a difficult time. I spent 11 years as an administrator, most of that at the High School level and several of those years were in a large urban district. I understand exactly the situation you are in. Do you get any support from your administration? If so, I would use them as a resource. If not, I would take a stronger position with the girls. If the girls respond poorly, this will give you additional leverage for further discipline. I know this has been suggested and you weren't crazy about the idea and sited wanting to keep your own integrity. I don't think your integrity is the issue. As you know from being an educator, the only way to deal with a bully is to stand up to him/her, they cannot be pacified. If standing up to these girls causes their behavior to deteriorate, they need to deal with the disciplinary consequences that accompany such poor behavior. You mentioned that you have threatened the girls with a parent conference. My guess would be, this doesn't change their behavior because they know their parent won't care, and may not even come to a conference. It sounds like they are hijacking what would otherwise be a more pleasant class. If I were the parent of one of the other students in the class, I would be frustrated by the amount of time and energy that goes into managing these two hostile girls. My advice would be to work up your courage, know its going to be a battle and take a stronger stand against their behavior. If you don't take a strong stand and fight the battle, the problem will only persist. I would also suggest a spiritual approach. I don't want to start a dialogue or debate on religion and I don't know your position but I do want to share some advice that once helped me in a difficult situation. I once had a difficult situation with a very hostile and aggressive colleague. Someone I know suggested that I start praying for that person. As time progressed I noticed that I looked at that person differently and had more patience for them. That approach may work as well. Good luck. I wish you well. Thanks for all that you do for your students. Our world needs great educators now more than ever. Most people don't understand the daily battles that teachers face. I applaud you for your service. If I can be of further service, please contact me at [email removed]

Dec 7, 2014

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Kadi Thank you, Craig & Whomever,

Yes, I agree with both of you. My hesitance is coming from our school's new policy on restorative justice & a history of administrators not backing up teachers. RJ can be a very useful tool in dealing with students' issues with other students when done correctly. At my school, however, it is potentially...See MoreThank you, Craig & Whomever,

Yes, I agree with both of you. My hesitance is coming from our school's new policy on restorative justice & a history of administrators not backing up teachers. RJ can be a very useful tool in dealing with students' issues with other students when done correctly. At my school, however, it is potentially even more undermining to the teacher. It's been phrased as how "we can hear both sides and mediate", which has resulted in the teacher having to sit there, waste precious time on their prep period or after school, listen to ridiculous accusations about the teacher "picking on them", and leave with the student even more empowered. Sometimes, the students then begin demanding in class to see the AP to complain about us.

On the other hand though, since I have written only one office referral this year (for one of these girls), and my classes have been orderly & on task-even though I have some difficult kids, I think admin may be a bit more likely to back me, especially now that I can document on the referral form that I have made a counselor referral & coordination of services request for one girl (the one who went hysterical), and have had security counsel them both, I can actually draw a hard line & send them to the AP with a somewhat higher chance of administrative action.

One of these girls has a very aggressive counselor, who sides with her students regardless of the offensiveness of their behavior. My last meeting with her, this counselor was incredibly insulting to me, and I was grateful the student was not there to witness it. She was shocked I called her out on it, told her directly that I would not tolerate the way she was talking to me, and that I no longer trust her ability to run a parent conference. This problem is not unique for me. Other teachers have come back from her office seriously angry, recommended I look up the students' behavior & academic records to point out their issues in other classes, and request with CC to the assistant principals, either an academic and behavioral review with parents or a coordination of services review team meeting. Either way, it becomes not to her benefit to provoke us, because those are both a lot of extra work for her. Honestly, while I was being patronizingly lectured by her, I could hear my dad's voice in my head, telling me that the first time a bully goes after me, to hit back hard enough that they don't try again. Since she's left me be for a month, hopefully it's worked.

Today, I'll be changing their seats to make it very hard for them to have eye contact in class. If they pitch a fit any time soon or become belligerent again, out they go with a referral, and parent phone call after class. I think the parents may be ok. One girl, when I put her out of class for 2 days (can be done if the teaching is disrupted & we make the parent contact), her mom was very supportive. The other girl, when she openly laughed at me when I asked for her signed syllabus, was shocked when I called her dad right in front if the class & left a message on his voice mail that I'd been asking her for it to be brought back signed for over a week, and could he please help? She brought it back the next day, was pretty meek for awhile. I just have to brace myself because I'm never sure if I'll have admin backup, but the admin is new & the school is running the best I've seen it, so this will be a chance to see how it goes & if I'm really on my own or not.

Prayer is not a bad idea, thank you for suggesting it. Keeps my perspective clearer, I think...

Thank you for taking the time to respond, I really appreciate it.

Dec 8, 2014

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