Well, let's think about the things we do in the real world when
someone does something they shouldn't do. Football players get fined
for dancing too much in the end zone. We get tickets for parking
where we shouldn't. Both of those cost us money. Can you 'fine'
students?
Not in public school you can't - you can send notices to their
parents when the kids lose their library books but try to fine a kid
or their parent for misbehavior in the classroom....?

What else happens to us in the real world? Well, we can be made to do
community service - in some schools you can do that. I rather dislike
the message of that - that service to the community is a punishment -
it's a flawed concept but it's done and you could try it. I find most
classroom problems though to be born of boredom and impulse - a
deadly combination. In the moment, a kid impulsively does something -
it's how their brains work. Their brains really don't hold still long
enough to think "Now if I do this, I'm going to have to clean the
boards. I don't want to do that so I won't do this." They just
aren't programmed to think that way when they're young. If they were,
we would never have invented school - we'd just put them in the
workforce.

In the old days, they did make us clean the boards as a punishment -
I'm not sure that it will be as easy to do such things now - someone
will protest. You'll have to go through channels to accomplish it and
to be sure your back is being watched. Not everyone's on board with
the concept of 'service learning' much less 'service punishment'.

What else happens to us? We get our drivers' licenses taken away - I
suppose you could take away privileges from these kids - do your
students have any privileges? I find kids so jaded these days they
couldn't care much if they have recess or not but your kids might be
different. If you could take their drivers' licenses away - or if you
could give them drivers' licenses, they'd eat out of your hand for that.

And in the real world we get put in prison - detention though
doesn't seem to work much better than prison. Statistics seem to show
that our rate of recidivism is horribly high in both prison and
detention- having been in prison or detention doesn't seem to
discourage poor choices that lead one back to prison when out of it.
You'll see the same kids in detention over and over again - why?
Because they're doing the same things over and over again.

And then there's capitol punishment.
And when no solution can be found between countries, we have wars.
Some teachers declare a kind of war on their students.

Which of the above will work with students? This site and every other
one is Filled with that question - what to do, what can we do, who
has something that works?
>
>
> I think my problem with classroom management came down to the
> few students who intentionally disrupted class so that teaching
> was disrupted. These students didn't want to do anything, so
> their goal was to talk or stand or walk so that teaching and
> learning was disrupted.
>
> I admit I don't have a game plan for how to stop that. What type
> of consequences can you really give if a student just keeps
> blurting out or standing up?

Blurting out is a part of being a kid - I discourage it but to expect
none of it I find unrealistic. Besides - I want my class to be lively
- bored kids are the Worst kids to manage. Kids do blurt out in my
class with surprise at what I just said, did or at the reality of the
man who declared an oil rig his own country ( I teach social studies).

Standing up? Do you teach inner city or will you? Any kid who
stands up, I say "Sit down." Is their chair on fire? Or do you have
over 25 kids in a room? Do NOT teach in a school that puts more than
25 kids in a room and if you do, heaven help you, but then you'd
better cultivate a very stern act - because unless you do, you're too
outnumbered.

I don't fully understand the 'what to do when they do' - why do you
even want it to get that far? Teaching requires constant classroom
management unless you turn them into zombies or unless you're showing
a very intriguing film. Kids are kids - they have energy, they want
to move, they're naturally impulsive. You have to stay on top of that
- there's no edict that can be issued that will do away with the
energy of youth.
And why do folks want that anyway? Maybe it's me - well, it is me
but I don't want them to listen because they don't want to lose
recess. I want them to listen because it's in everybody's best
interest - including theirs. I didn't invent school, I only teach it
and in school like in life it's in everybody's best interest to do
the right thing. I don't make them miserable - why would they want to
make themselves miserable?
If they can be reasonable, I can promise them a more than reasonable
experience in my class. We will explore interesting concepts - I
teach social studies - it's more than interesting, it's fascinating.
I will not be the King and Queen of Mean. I will not seek to lord it
over them. I will seek only to guide them on an interesting journey
but to do that, they need to give me some buy-in or - it will be
miserable. It will be one more class that they HATE coming to - is
that what you want? One more class that you HATE coming to?

I say all that on the first day but I say it nicely. It works. But
for the blurting and the impulsivity and that you have to stay on top
of constantly - or it escalates. You make a joke, they laugh, one
laughs very hard, the student next to him imitates his laugh and the
first one gets mad and - that happens all the time. A pencil drops,
the kid leans over to pick it up and the kid next to him moves the
pencil away with his foot - it's kidstuff but it makes the first kid
mad and ....

You cannot legislate that stuff away and why would you want to?
Zombies don't learn. If you walk into a classroom with everybody
sitting dead still - look at their eyes. Those eyes are glazed over -
nobody's learning anything, they're just enduring the class.

It can be all about acting - I put on a persona but come to think of
it I passionately believe everything I said above so - that's no act.
My philosophies are real and heartfelt. But when I'm pursing my lips
at a kid for tapping a pencil - that's an act. I really don't care
about pencil tapping but for the fact that the next one does it and
then the next one and....

How long would you watch a stage performance if the actors weren't
convincing?
>
> I would LOVE to move to the "buck stops here" way of doing
> things. I just can't see how. Is it really all just about acting
> because there really IS nothing you can acutally do?
>
> THANKS FOR YOUR TIME! Your help is very much appreciated.
>
>

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