Re: Curious to know...
Posted by Angie C. on 5/06/08

How many of the posters who think that a person who cannot pass
the MS Praxis Math exam have actually taken the exam? I'm curious
to know. I'll admit, I took it after being away from a classroom
after several years and passed it. However, it is not as easy as
some of the posters seems to think. I would guarantee the
majority of adults cannot pass it. I still find it amusing that
people are so quick to judge another based on test scores.

My reply to the person who did not pass, but wants to teach...KEEP
TRYING! Try to find some MS Math textbooks and look at them.
Don't give up and don't listen to people who try to tell you to do
something else...they don't know you, they have no right to judge you.

Best wishes
Angie


On 4/20/08, Rich/CA/Math wrote:
> I completely agree with Pragmatic. We aren't talking about
> advanced math here, this is pretty basic stuff. And sadly I
> have seen the result of 7th grade teachers teaching math
> without the requisite deeper understanding that Pragmatic
> speaks of. And often they don't even realize their
> inadequacies, so the fact that someone who is teaching math
> might say that the Middle School test isn't easy is not very
> convincing. If they think this test isn't easy then they
> probably shouldn't be teaching math either.
>
> I don't mean to be harsh, but let's face it. What counts is
> what is best for kids. While those who disclaim the
> importance of the kind of deep understanding of math that
> would make the passing of the Middle School Math Praxis a mere
> formality, are looking at what is best for them getting a
> job. It isn't the same thing. And I am not questioning
> anyone's sincerity, but I am questioning their perspective.
>
> And BTW, if you cannot get correct answers to math problems
> you don't know the math. The whole "bad test-taker" theory is
> a myth, IMO. You can either get the right answers or you
> can't. I'm convinced that the whole "bad test taker" thing
> came from students getting good grades in math based on nice
> notes, meaningless projects, and compliant attitudes, but then
> doing poorly on tests because all that stuff doesn't mean they
> learned any math.
>
> Math is solving problems. So-called "alternative assessment"
> schemes that do not involve students getting correct answers
> to problems are a sham, IMO. And if you can get the correct
> answer then it doesn't matter whether you have to write it
> down or you have to pick it out of 5 choices.
>
> On 4/20/08, Pragmatic wrote:
>> I disagree with you, LJ.
>>
>> If you're coming across new material in middle school, then
>> it's unlikely that you really have the necessary deep
>> understanding of the material required to give students
>> insight instead of just the ability to memorize formulas.
>>
>> Teaching Language Arts is different from teaching math. Math
>> is a ladder for many many concepts. If you aren't careful
>> with the order of mastery, then you sow confusion instead of
>> understanding. If you can't do anything but follow the book,
>> then you should be replaced by a television. If you can't
>> provide relevant additional insight when facing certain
>> concepts, then what makes you a good math teacher?
>>
>> As a person who has mastered the material, I can still have
>> sympathy and understanding for what students struggle with,
>> why they struggle with it, and how to help them overcome that
>> confusion.
>>
>> If you didn't learn mastery of math in school, it's highly
>> unlikely that you ever will. All the professional
> development
>> in the world will not provide you with content knowledge, the
>> content knowledge that you MUST HAVE in order to teach it.
>>
>> I don't mean to be attacking you personally, so please don't
>> take it as such. I feel very strongly that a mastery of the
>> subject is required to teach it.
>>
>> On 4/20/08, LJ wrote:
>>> 1) I was ALWAYS a good math student in school but have not
>>> had a math course in many years, and, even after taking
>>> the two courses mentioned above, there are still items in
>>> the practice material that I did not know;
>>
>> What does it mean that you were a good math student? If you
>> forget concepts once the exam has passed, then how much did
>> you learn? I'm not saying that you didn't learn to be good
> at
>> the game of school, but it seems like you've missed the point
>> of math.
>>
>>> 2) I am not a
>>> good memorizer and have to really work at formulas and
>>> such; just because I cannot do "mental math" easily does
>>> not mean that I do not understand math;
>>
>> There's lots that I've forgotten, but since I reached
> mastery,
>> picking up stuff that I haven't seen in 20 years takes no
> time
>> at all, and most of it I can re-derive.
>>
>>> 4)my experiences over many years as both a
>>> student and a teacher have shown me that many people who
>>> are REALLY good at something do not make good teachers;
>>
>> Simply being good at the subject doesn't guarantee the
> ability
>> to teach. However, being bad at the subject does strongly
>> correlate with an inability to explain it.
>>
>>> they don't understand the difficulties some people have
>>> learning certain materials. So, if you are not the most
>>> natural math whiz, it doesn't mean you won't be a good
>>> teacher.
>>
>>> Teaching ANY subject has more to do with being
>>> flexible, caring, and motivated to learn the material, to
>>> try something different when things aren't working for a
>>> student, and to keep the students interested;
>>
>> If you're so motivated to learn the material, then why
> haven't
>> you done so yet? You've spent 16 years in school, and the
>> subject that you're "motivated to learn" hasn't sunk in yet?
>> When will it?
>>
>>> 5) some
>>> people are not good test takers (I am one). As many
>>> educators can tell you, passing a test does not determine
>>> whether or not you will be a good teacher or even that you
>>> are great at that subject
>>
>> There are bad exams that don't test knowledge of a subject;
>> They can be 'passed' with just good test-taking skills, some
>> common sense, and a good calculator. The PRAXIS isn't one of
>> them. You need to have a broad and deep understanding of the
>> subject matter to be able to pass it. There aren't easy
>> shortcuts, just as there aren't easy shortcuts to genuine
>> understanding of any subject.
>>
>> Have a great Sunday, but please go teach something other than
>> math.
>>
>> Pragmatic
>>

Posts on this thread, including this one

• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 4/20/08, by LJ.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 4/20/08, by Pragmatic.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 4/20/08, by Rich/CA/Math.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 4/21/08, by Lawrence_NJ.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 4/21/08, by Rich/CA/Math.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 4/21/08, by Juliana.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 4/21/08, by Lawrence_NJ .
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 4/21/08, by Pragmatic.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 4/21/08, by Lawrence_NJ.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 4/21/08, by Pragmatic.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 4/21/08, by Rich/CA/Math.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 4/22/08, by Lawrence_NJ.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 4/22/08, by Rich/CA/Math.
• Re: Reply to Pragmatic, 4/24/08, by Howard Rosenbaum.
• Re: Reply to Pragmatic, 4/24/08, by Rich/CA/Math.
• Re: Reply to Pragmatic, 4/25/08, by Pragmatic.
• Re: Reply to Pragmatic, 4/25/08, by Rich/CA/Math.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math - Three Personal Examples, 4/27/08, by sd.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math - Three Personal Examples, 4/27/08, by Rich/CA/Math.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math - Three Personal Examples, 4/27/08, by DSF/NJ.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math - Three Personal Examples, 4/28/08, by Pragmatic.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 5/06/08, by Jackie.
• Re: Curious to know..., 5/06/08, by Angie C..
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 5/07/08, by Sue.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 5/16/08, by Tom418.
• Re: Curious to know..., 5/16/08, by Tom418.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 5/16/08, by smarkham01.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 5/16/08, by Rich/CA/Math.
• Re: Praxis ii middle school math, 5/17/08, by Tom418.