Re: Natives & heritage in non-native classes (HS & College)

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College Professors Chatboard

Natives & heritage in non-native classes (HS & College)

by Daniel Hanson

Aug 26, 2010

This week I have been trying to move natives and heritage speakers out of my Spanish I classes and into either the native speakers' class or my Spanish II classes (especially if they are heritage speakers). And I've been contemplating this issue a lot today.

One of our department goals is to have a clear plan of attack and involve the guidance counselors in it with the whole native speakers and heritage learners in non-native speakers classes. Currently, and in the past, it seems like guidance counselors don't really know what to do about this or aren't proactive about making sure these students are kept out of the lower, non-native classes, even if the kid wants to be in that class.

How supportive is your administration and counselors about not allowing these students to be in these kind of classes?

How proactive are colleges about this issue?

And how proactive are colleges about the college admissions requirement about taking so many foreign langua...See MoreThis week I have been trying to move natives and heritage speakers out of my Spanish I classes and into either the native speakers' class or my Spanish II classes (especially if they are heritage speakers). And I've been contemplating this issue a lot today.

One of our department goals is to have a clear plan of attack and involve the guidance counselors in it with the whole native speakers and heritage learners in non-native speakers classes. Currently, and in the past, it seems like guidance counselors don't really know what to do about this or aren't proactive about making sure these students are kept out of the lower, non-native classes, even if the kid wants to be in that class.

How supportive is your administration and counselors about not allowing these students to be in these kind of classes?

How proactive are colleges about this issue?

And how proactive are colleges about the college admissions requirement about taking so many foreign language classes? At my school, I've been told by an adminstrator and by the head guidance counselor that when a student takes a native speakers' class, it counts as if they had taken two years of a FL language class in terms of college entrance requirements. I was also told that college really don't look at 8th grade and freshmen grades/classes. So, if a native speaker took Spanish I as a freshman and then moved up to a native speakers' class the following year, that first year wouldn't be considered by college admissions. Is all of this true?

I feel kind of frustrated about the lack of prevention on this issue. I think natives should flat out not be allowed to enroll in non-native courses, no matter what. As for heritage learners, I think they should be enrolled in Spanish II and go from there.

What is done at the college level to remove and ensure that native and heritage speakers don't enroll in lower level, non-native classes?

I wish there was some consistency across the board (at all high schools and colleges) on this issue.

Do you think people outside of our profession don't see the harm or don't care about it all that much?

Thanks for your input! :)

Comment

(4)

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marjoryt 1. Don't assume a speaker knows grammar. That's an incredibly important part of the language. And, if the student learned the language at home, that student's language may very well be carrying the dialectal differences - enough that the student may not really be speaking the same language. I teach English, and two of the local English dialects cre...See More

Aug 28, 2010

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Daniel Hanson I'm not trying to be rude or cynical, but how does moving native speakers into a native speaker designed class considered segregation? It would be like allowing a fluent, native English speaker enroll in a beginning ESL course. I would argue that it's needed differentiation. The students need curriculum that fits their needs. In a native speaker cl...See MoreI'm not trying to be rude or cynical, but how does moving native speakers into a native speaker designed class considered segregation? It would be like allowing a fluent, native English speaker enroll in a beginning ESL course. I would argue that it's needed differentiation. The students need curriculum that fits their needs. In a native speaker class, they can develop their reading and writing skills along with develop their academic vocabulary. The students' needs will not be met by doing non-native speaker activities in a beginning Spanish course.

On 8/28/10, marjoryt wrote: > 1. Don't assume a speaker knows grammar. That's an > incredibly important part of the language. And, if the > student learned the language at home, that student's language > may very well be carrying the dialectal differences - enough > that the student may not really be speaking the same > language. I teach English, and two of the local English > dialects create significant problems for these students. Our > local Hispanic students always comment that our Spanish > instructors have beautiful accents and vocabulary, and they > want to pick up some of those accents. > > 2. You'll need to specifically have a plan approved and in > place BEFORE arbitarily moving students from one class to > another. My college found that out years ago while dealing > with our developmental English courses and placement into > those courses. The policy is challenged EVERY semester, > sometimes quite vigorously, by students, parents, coaches, > counselors. But, because the policy is written, backed up > with research, and approved before implementation, it holds > up - to the benefit of the students and the teachers. > > 3. Our Spanish instructors also have a 3-part challenge test > to move from Spanish 1 or 2 into the next level course. It > involves speaking, reading comprehension, and composition. > Often the students speak well, but don't truly read well in > Spanish, and then fail completely in the composition > standards. I believe your national standards add a 4th part - > listening skills. > > About the lawsuit - if you are perceived as moving "natives" > out of specific classes, it can and will be perceived as > segregation. Something to consider.

Aug 29, 2010

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marjoryt As you've described the proposal, this may be considered ability grouping. K12 schools lost that battle in the courts years ago, which is why they have ESL, LD, and even SPED students mainstreamed in whole or in part. If your institution accepts federal funding for its students (PELL grants), then it may well be under similar restrictions.
...See More

Sep 1, 2010

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Betty I just noticed the date on this post but the problem is still very relevant even 5 years later.

Apart from it not being an issue outside of school I do believe that it is detrimental for students who are truly non-native students be in a class with other students that are Native speakers.

On 8/26/10, Daniel Hanson wrote: > Thi...See MoreI just noticed the date on this post but the problem is still very relevant even 5 years later.

Apart from it not being an issue outside of school I do believe that it is detrimental for students who are truly non-native students be in a class with other students that are Native speakers.

On 8/26/10, Daniel Hanson wrote: > This week I have been trying to move natives and heritage > speakers out of my Spanish I classes and into either the > native speakers' class or my Spanish II classes (especially > if they are heritage speakers). And I've been contemplating > this issue a lot today. > > One of our department goals is to have a clear plan of > attack and involve the guidance counselors in it with the > whole native speakers and heritage learners in non- native > speakers classes. Currently, and in the past, it seems like > guidance counselors don't really know what to do about this > or aren't proactive about making sure these students are > kept out of the lower, non-native classes, even if the kid > wants to be in that class. > > How supportive is your administration and counselors about > not allowing these students to be in these kind of classes? > > How proactive are colleges about this issue? > > And how proactive are colleges about the college admissions > requirement about taking so many foreign language classes? > At my school, I've been told by an adminstrator and by the > head guidance counselor that when a student takes a native > speakers' class, it counts as if they had taken two years > of a FL language class in terms of college entrance > requirements. I was also told that college really don't > look at 8th grade and freshmen grades/classes. So, if a > native speaker took Spanish I as a freshman and then moved > up to a native speakers' class the following year, that > first year wouldn't be considered by college admissions. Is > all of this true? > > I feel kind of frustrated about the lack of prevention on > this issue. I think natives should flat out not be allowed > to enroll in non-native courses, no matter what. As for > heritage learners, I think they should be enrolled in > Spanish II and go from there. > > What is done at the college level to remove and ensure that > native and heritage speakers don't enroll in lower level, > non-native classes? > > I wish there was some consistency across the board (at all > high schools and colleges) on this issue. > > Do you think people outside of our profession don't see the > harm or don't care about it all that much? > > Thanks for your input! :)

Aug 24, 2015

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