Re: Teacher stipend and bonuses for student trips

More | Report Post

$375 per student?!? Where in the world do you get that sort of
figure? The average group size (and again, I've been doing this 10
years) is approximately 20 +/-. That's enough to cover two-three
teachers, and the remaining stipend is approximately $300-$400
TOTAL, not per student. That's not greedy. I know no one who could
count that sort of money as a side business or "second income."
Again, I know dozens of teachers who do this, and very, very few
qualify for a stipend of any more than about $500 tops.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating keeping the funds. But no
teacher I've ever met is truly making money off of this. The groups
would have to be so large and the number of chaperones so few that
they trips themselves wouldn't be approved.

As to parents who are foolish enough to borrow money to send their
students on tour, well, I'll let the stupidity of that sort of move
stand on its on face.

As to other professionals, as I cited, it is most certainly not
illegal or unethical for them to accept travel or reasonable gifts
from companies. Why is it that so many people have this idea that
it is somehow illegal or unethical to accept offers that are
standard operating procedure in certain lines of work?

I agree about things being above board and the necessity for that.
Any parent who asks about it, I'll be glad to disclose . . . . and
send them an additional bill for the portion of the tips and
incidentals the stipend DIDN'T cover that I PAID so that their child
could have a nice experience.

On 4/21/09, A.M. Davis wrote:
> On 4/18/09, Alfred wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I was under the impression that these incentives are
>>> patently illegal and negate fiduciary trust, especially if
>>> one is a public school teacher. Additionally, I've
>>> recently been told by a friend, who teaches at a
>>> prestigious private school, that the NAIS (National
>>> Association of Independent Schools) has also come out
>>> against these practices.
>>>
>>> Where do you all think these companies get the money to
>>> pay you and give you weekends and gifts? Their own packets
>>> of a 'fund'? No! They come directly from your students
>>> and their families!
>>>
>>> in fact, these bribes (yes! bribes) directly cut down on
>>> the overall quality of the trip for your students. The
>>> first thing to go is educational content, professional
>>> educational tour guides, better class of hotel, nutritious
>>> food, and safety.
>>>
>>> Whom do you serve? What do you stand for? If you don't
>>> think that you get paid well enough as a teacher that you
>>> have to resort to this type of larceny, then quit. Get
>>> out! Find another profession. Become a bona fide
>>> salesperson for the tour company, rather than someone who
>>> is fronting as a teacher to represent a tour operator.
>>
>> First, let me say that conflict of interest is always a
>> slippery thing in every profession. If one's primary
>> motivation is a set of "perks," then I think there IS
>> something wrong with accepting all of this largesse.
>>
>> But before you paint every situation with a broad brush,
>> consider this. I routinely receive large stipends which I
>> promptly turn around and use (and THEN some out of my own
>> pocket) to cover tour director, guide, and driver tips. I've
>> been doing this for over ten years, and I know literally
>> dozens of other teachers who use the money the same way.
>> It's a fairly common thing for the money to be "recycled"
>> this way or also to be used to pay for special events while
>> on tour.
>>
>> Secondly, why should our profession be any different from
>> others? We're not Franciscans, for God's sake! We didn't
>> take a vow of poverty. Physicians routinely accept golfing
>> trips, gifts, financial incentives, etc. from pharmaceutical
>> companies, medical device manufacturers, and so on. We're
>> not volunteers or humanitarian relief workers for crying out
>> loud. I've had people say to me that it's unethical for me
>> even to have my way paid when I chaparone students on tour!
>> How the bloody hell do you expect me to go, then, on a
>> teacher's salary???
>>
>> Mull this one over: One reason teachers have such low pay is
>> because we all have bought in to this notion that we OUGHT to
>> be doing all this for free! We constantly subsidize our
>> schools and districts by buying supplies for our students and
>> classrooms, taking personal time and resources away from our
>> own families, and so on. The amounts we're talking about are
>> paultry in the grand scheme of things. Lighten up a bit!
>
> Go to Previous message | Go to Next message | Back to
> MessagesMark as Unread | Print
> ReplyReply All Move...Inbox
> Flag this messageRe: Teacher stipend and bonuses for student
> tripsTuesday, April 21, 2009 3:22 PM
> From: "A.M. Davis" Add sender to
> ContactsTo: "Alfred" I agree
> that teachers are not being compensated properly for all the
> time and effort they are putting into their students.
>
> And I have known a few teachers that recycle the stipends into
> scholarships and other things during the course of the trip. The
> teachers that I work with won't even accept a dinner invitation
> from me or the tour operator unless they pay for their own meal.
> Unfortunately, most teachers I have contacted in the past few
> years are viewing student travel as a second income or business
> and as a result, there has been a great deal of abuse.
>
> Can you justify a teacher getting as much as $375 per student
> and other personal travel benefits (unrelated to the student
> tour) on top of the free trip? Don't you find that greedy?
> Consider this: Some parents take out a personal loan or a second
> job so their son or daughter can travel. I am sure they would be
> appalled to find out that a chunk of their money goes into the
> teacher's pocket.
>
> Please read what the Ohio Ethics Commission (2000-4) has to say
> about receiving stipdends.
> http://www.ethics.ohio.gov/opinions/2000-04.html
>
> I firmly feel that teachers ought to travel free with their
> groups and be compensated for the time and effort put into the
> planning of the trip.
>
> But these expenses should be above board and declared to the
> school administration, district, and parents. Parents should
> also understand how much work there is in putting a trip
> together.
>
> You've cited instances where doctors etc. receive perks. That's
> still unethical and illegal. Is this your justification? Public
> officials and public employees are barred from
> such 'considerations'. Many of these people have been audited by
> the IRS, lost their positions, and have gone to jail.
>
> Teachers may not be Franciscans, but they are supposed to be
> role models and do everything in the best interest of their
> students.

Posts on this thread, including this one