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Re: Ruh-roh Shaggy! How hard IS it to teach English in CO?
Posted by Ali on 5/03/08

    On 5/02/08, Rodeo wrote:
    > Nice try Ali to try to win an argument by twisting the facts. The fact
    > is that if you are dealing with an individual whom you will have to
    > work with or interact with on a frequent basis then of course you are
    > going to make a great deal of effort to discover who they are. You can
    > do this because you have the advantage of time.
    >
    > The difference when you are hiring a teacher is that you do not have
    > the advantage of observing them or finding out about them over time.
    > Rather, at best you have a half hour or hour interview. And then you
    > have to make a decision about choosing them for a year which will
    > greatly impact your students. So if you know that on average, where
    > they are educated will make them a more poor teacher than where the
    > other applicants are educated and they do not even have state
    > credentialing, you would be foolish to take a chance on them.

    Rodeo, you're woefully misinformed. Our state credential conforms strictly
    to NCLB standards; without a California Preliminary teaching credential,
    you can't get a job in California. You must complete two more years of
    training as a teacher before you can get a final Clear Credential, plus
    150 hours of professional education every 5 years in order to renew it.
    Besides, Colorado and California have reciprocal teaching credentials,
    i.e. both states recognize the credential of the other and will, after he
    completes a required course on the state's Constitution, grant the
    immigrant a new teaching credential.

    As to your assertion that "where they are [sic] educated will make them
    [sic] a more poor [sic] teacher than where the other applicants are
    educated", I believe you are, again, making assumptions not backed by any
    real evidence.

    California has, bar none, the best and most well-known public university
    system in the country, hundreds of other well-respected and top-ranking
    private colleges, and dozens of top-rated teaching programs. Check out US
    News and World Report for statistics on this. Why else would counselors
    around the world be so thrilled when their kids get into ultra-competitive
    UC Berkeley, UCLA, USC, UCSD, Stanford, Chapman, etc.?

    As far as high schools go, we do have some of the lowest-performing
    secondary schools in the country. Most urban areas in the west (Denver,
    Phoenix, Las Vegas, Albuquerque, etc.) struggle with the same issues,
    largely because of the way schools are funded. However, we also have some
    of the very best public schools in the nation. You can check the
    Washington Post for statistics on that. As far as I'm concerned, the
    teachers who can reach kids in those areas are some of the best in the
    world. I'm sure you'd agree. I'm sure you'd also agree that your education
    is what you make of it. I used to work in one of the worst school
    districts in California, and still had students who went on to some of the
    most prestigious colleges in the country. To most people, that's a huge
    accomplishment, and is generally regarded with the respect it deserves. I
    don't know a single principal who would overlook that on a resume.

    > Hey, Ali, throwing the prejudice card into discussions has worked
    > pretty well for you in life hasn't it I see since that is the first
    > trick in your bag that you grab for.

    This is the most blatant ad hominem attack I've ever seen. I might be
    offended if it wasn't so far off the mark. Have you ever studied logic and
    rhetoric? You should look into it, along with a copy of Strunk & White,
    before you post that a professional educator from California can be
    dismissed on the basis of being more poorly educated than yourself.

    I called you out on a blanket generalization to which you refused to
    directly respond. Instead, you accused me of having twisted "facts" that
    you only then proceeded to state. I wouldn't even be responding to your
    post except that you need to learn that before you can effectively argue
    with an educated professional, you need to get your facts straight AND
    have a command of proper English grammar, mechanics, and usage.

    You can get down to the elementary school level and start name-calling if
    you want, but that would only make me feel sorrier for your students than
    I already do.

    Finally, I will be so bold as to say this: if you and I were sitting in
    front of a principal and she had to choose between the two of us based on
    this dialogue, she'd hire me in a heartbeat, having seen in writing the
    kind of impact you would have on the kids in her school.

     
     

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