On 6/20/08, Merrill wrote:
> Remember that Illinois is not like other states. The teacher's union in
> Illinois works with the state licensing board to keep the number of employed
> teachers artificially low. Less teachers, higher pay.
?????? Most of this thread, everyone, including you, has been saying there is a
major glut of teachers. There IS a major oversupply of some type of teachers,
and a shortage of a few select fields. How exactly are the unions working with
ISBE to keep the number of employed teachers artificially low? Please provide
links or references to documentation and/or resources proving this. Not just
the fact that you can't get a job, but real proof please.
Anyone who wants to can major in Education in Illinois, even in the fields like
Social Studies, English, or Elementary Ed where there are 500 applicants per
job. There could be an argument made that state-funded schools should be forced
to limit the number of education majors, since so many can't get a job in-state,
but the criteria to get into a College of Ed at a state school is pretty low.
The state will issue a certificate to every one of these graduates who
completes the requirements. ISBE does not reject applications from qualified
people. They don't say to a new grad from ISU that he/she can't have a
certificate even though they completed a program and are qualified. In the
Health professions, especially Optometry and Dentistry, some states will not
give you a license to keep competition low. Some graduates of Illinois College
of Optometry cannot practice in Illinois and have to move. This does not happen
with ISBE.
>
> Illinois also has its own testing system, which is different than every other
> state. To my knowledge 47-49 of the other states use the PRAXIS examinations
> for certifying teachers. Not Illinois. This means there is no reciprocity,
> and teachers from other states have a difficult time getting certified here.
Minnesota uses PRAXIS and has no reciprocity agreement with any state. I don't
know why... I agree we should probably use PRAXIS, but as we've stated
throughout the thread, there isn't a shortage of teachers, so why should we
streamline the process for people from out of state? Likely the state gets
money from that testing company in Mass. that provides the service. ETS, which
does PRAXIS, might not offer as sweet a kickback. In any case,why do we need
another 100 Social Studies teachers from Indiana who can't get jobs here just
like the IL grads?
Out of state applicants do get jobs here, though. I've been involved in the
hiring of several, mostly from IN and MI. In SPED, we work with their situation
and they take the tests in their first year. We need them to fill positions,
don't have IL certified people, so we work with their license issues. We'd
rather have someone good to go in IL, but thats not always an option. It almost
cetainly IS an option in the more glutted fields, so out of staters do have a
hard time. As we've proven, though, they're going to have a hard time once the
IL license is in hand as well.
>
> To get an ELL endorsement in Louisiana, you have to take 12 hours of
> additional classes in that area (and it helps to speak another language).
OK. Good for Louisiana. I don't know why it helps to speak another language.
ELL instruction occurs in English in a class with a diverse class of non-English
speakers. Instruction in another language is called Billingual Education and is
another certification entirely, at least in IL.
I
> called around Illinois to see what getting and ELL endorsement in Illinois
> requires: 18 hours graduate work in ESL, a 100 hour practicum, and an exam.
> Everyone I talk to says you need to go into a graduate program full-time to
> get all that done. It will cost about $36,000 at a place like DePaul.
Thats because the people you are talking to are probably college admissions
advisors who have the job of selling you on their program. If you call
National-Louis or Roosevelt and tell them you have a History degree and would
like to teach Social Science, they'll be happy to take your money and talk about
the teacher shortage. Teachers can add SPED with 4 courses, but Universities
will out-right lie to people and tell them they have to take a 36 credit
master's program, because they want your money. Its what they do.
I detailed an relatively easy way to get that endorsement. I have people in my
department who have done it, because its hard as heck to find ELL/SPED. I go
through transcripts to find candidates, and I've seen transcripts from
University of Phoenix Online and NLU through IRC.
>
> *Now if someone has an easier way to do it, I'd love to hear it!
I just detailed an easier way in a previous post... *Sigh* OK, check this out:
http://webcls.thecenterweb.org/irc/events/pages/f_courses.asp
University of Phoenix online is an option too, though you have to set up your
own 100 hours. Again, that 100 hours does NOT have to be a practicum, though
some Grad schools here will tell you that so they can charge you for it. It can
be observation in the ELL classroom.
Read through the brochures. I point teachers in this direction when they want
to add ELL.
> How should we be hiring teachers then?
Again, I thought you couldn't get hired. What's this "how should WE be hiring
teachers" stuff?
Form hiring committees in individual
> departments (Math, Science, English, etc.). Post a DETAILED job advertisement
> asking for resumes/CVs, cover letters, a philosophy of education, and anything
> else the applicant wants to submit. Then go through the materials by hand!
And when are people supposed to teach? Thats basically what I do, but I have 10
applicants for 3 jobs. My counterparts in the English or SS depts. have 1000
for 1 job. Its not about the applicant or being fair to them. Its about
getting a qualified person and moving on with the 500 other things we have to
do. BTW, a person who wants to get noticed will send letters and/or email the
administrators directly. We do take notice of that.
> In the online database, there are questions like: "What do you think makes for
> a 'great teacher?'" Who do you think reads that? It usually isn't a
> teacher--it might be a secretary or a civil servant of some kind, who doesn't
> know much of anything about teaching, and certainly doesn't understand what a
> "teaching philosophy" is!
*Chuckle* I honestly can't say if our secretary or other "civil servant" reads
those or not. She can if she wants to, I suppose. We look at them at the end
of the process... sometimes. I can honestly say they never made a difference to
me. We can usually get a read on a person through the interview, ref checks,
and review of his/her record and transcripts. Again, I've got a lot of things
to do here buddy! I don't have 40 hours to dedicate to reading a bunch of
essays. I'd get rid of them on the application, but thats not my call. If
other schools put more weight into the essay, I don't know...
> So to make a long post shorter, I would say look at other states like South
> Carolina, Georgia, etc. You won't get away from the databases, but your
> chances of finding a position are better.
I agree entirely. Of course, then you have to live in the South, but to each
their own...
>
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>
> On 6/19/08, discouraged wrote:
>> This thread is very discouraging. I'll use my degree for something else
>> with lots less headache.
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