On 3/10/08, Try again to get it right please. wrote:
> I'll ask the same question again that you seem to avoid.
> Exactly how many years have you taught in Georgia/South since you are
> such a fountain of knowledge on the subject???
I know Georgia and nearly all of the south is a "right to work" area. That
means you have limited union protections and right-wingers running your
state governments. I don't have to teach in the south to know you are
underpaid and poorly treated. By the way, you don't have to go through
something to know its horrible. An educated person can figure it out. I
didn't have to go through Hitler's death camps to know it sucked, and i
didn't have to live through American Apartheid in the South, incl. Georgia
(I'm black, BTW) to know that wasn't good either.
>
> Yes, that is what I thought, you haven't. Let me help dispel your
> ignorance. Stupidity is not a positive attribute.
Again, smart people don't need to live something to be know about a
situation. Only those who are stupid, to borrow your word, need to
personally experience something to have an opinion.
> -We hired 1600 teachers in our district last year due to increasing
> enrollments(6,000 new students/year, guess a lot of families like it
> here). Our teacher retention rate exceeds 94 percent. I would hazard a
> guess our DISTRICT hired more techers than the STATE of Michigan last
> year.
Our state has a horrible economy, no argument, though I'm almost positive
Michigan hired more than 1600 new teachers last year.
> -We've built 32 new schools in our district in the last four years. All
> were paid for prior to construction, no bonds, referendums, etc.
...K...
> -You have the option to join unions here in Georgia including the NEA.
Ah, there-in lies the problem. A union works for ALL employees when the
represent ALL employees. When its an optional club, it doesn't work.
Unions work because we can force management to work with us, in good faith,
because we are united. We figured that out in Michigan in the 1930s. Of
course, you folks in Georgia at that time were making my Grandfather and
Great-Grandfather eat at a separate lunch counter and move to the side of
the sidewalk and tip his hat to the white folks walking past while the union
workers in the North were fighting for a piece of the pie.
>
> -My son's three AP courses are taught by three Phd's. His high school
> has over a dozen. How many do you have???
The school I work in has several with PhDs. Several more with EdDs. Thanks
for asking.
> -Our pay scale is $40,000 to $85,000, and the cost of living is half of
> what it is in Michigan.
Here you're full of crap!!! You're misrepresenting salaries. In my
district, I make almost 53,000 per year with a Masters and 10 years! At the
same level in your district, I'd make less than . Even with a PhD, I'd make
less than I do with a Masters at the same level. I'd have to wait until I've
made level "T-6" (whatever that is) with 20 years experience to make what I
do now. That meant, I would've been makeing 30-40 percent less per year
until I reached 20 ye4ars experience. Plus, our Doctoral levels are higher
still. Point is, at no level will you make more than me with the same
experience and I'll make more than you most levels.
>
> -CNN, Fortune Magazine, and Better Living Magazine, ranked this area as
> number four on it's "Top Ten Best Places to live in the U.S."
I don't much care for magazines telling me where to eat, sleep, vacation,
and certainly where to live. If thats important to you... good on 'ya.
> -No snow, beautiful islands on the coast,mountains, history, etc.
OK, now snow, but how the heck are there islands in central Georgia? Your
cost is three hundred miles away and ours is much closer. We have as much
history as you do, and our history doesn't include beating or working my
people until they die, but sure, whatever.
Yes,it was a terrible mistake for the hundreds of Michigan teachers who
> have to suffer under these conditions. Now don't you feel kind of
> silly?? That's ok, we have room for you too!! That's part of the
> Southern Hospitality!!
"Southern Hospitality that calls me "boy" and worse? Sure... I don't fill
silly at all.
> Oops, Did I forget mention that ALL Georgia graduating seniors with a
> 3.00 gpa can go college tuition free??
I already have three college degrees and won't be graduating high school in
Georgia. Why would I care?
> What a terrible place to live.lol
I agree. You don't have to worry. Likely, if I came down there, I'd be your
boss. But, some of those "hospitable" Georgians would burn a cross on my
lawn to welcome me to the neighborhood. Michigan is still better, despite
the crap economy.
>
> On 3/09/08, ticked off in Michigan wrote:
>> On 3/09/08, trey wrote:
>>> Your defense of Missing
>>> Michigan, who has been asked to stay off the Michigan and Georgia
>>> boards by her peers, with your small-minded, angry, disjointed,
>>> ramblings, only makes you appear very much like her.
>>
>> Again, since you've quoted my post at the end of yours, you obviously
>> can't be bothered to look at the name. I'm not "Missing Michigan."
>>
>> I am a teacher in Michigan who doesn't like the "southernization" of
> his
>> state's tenure and union laws. I don't care anything about Georgia,
>> except that some are trying to bring Georgia's mistreatment of teachers
>> to my part of the country. And, I despise the "do it for the children"
>> argument some, usually ineffective teachers make when we try to gain
> the
>> benefits, pay, and treatment we deserve. As I pointed out, students
>> benefit when they have professional teachers who feel valued with good
>> compensation. The usually do not benefit when they have gushing
>> charity-work-types teaching them because while they mean well, they
>> can't teach very well!
>>
>> If this "Missing MI" moved from Michigan to Georgia, he/she made a BAD
>> choice, and it sounds like they know it. However, with the MI economy
>> how it is, they were probably laid-off and had no chance of getting
>> another job in MI, so they made the best of a bad situation. Missing MI
>> might try some of the other areas that treat teachers a bit better.
> New
>> England, NY, and Illinois all have good or decent pay, tenure, etc. I
>> have some friends out there in each of these areas. They aren't "hot to
>> hire" like they are in Georgia, because they can hold onto their
>> teachers and people WANT to teach there, not just settle. However,
>> these areas, for the most part, are better than MI economically and
>> there are SOME jobs, though not enough.
>>
>>
>>> On 3/09/08, i will defend missing mi wrote:
>>>> I agree with almost everything Missing MI says....Teachers are made
>>>> to feel that if they are paycheck to paycheck, lunch
>>>> babysitters "that they got what they asked for" by getting into
>>>> this profession. Teachers down South are rarely treated with
>>>> respect. I work at a charter school in MI and mommies don't come
>>>> into help, we have to eat with our kids. I'm sorry but that
>>>> doesn't benefit the kids to have a teacher that hasn't had any
>>>> relief time. Teachers need a break, ask someone "How do you feel
>>>> about having 25 five year olds from 8-3 everyday?" They will get a
>>>> priceless look on their face and probably say "No thanks" so while
>>>> Missing MI complains she has some good points that some people just
>>>> don't understand. We are professionals and why some of you have
>>>> lowered your standards I don't know. To Missing MI: you have valid
>>>> points and I agree whole heartedly with you, but my suggestion,
>>>> when people get on here, don't say "move out of michigan" that
>>>> seems to be your answer for everything, i guess just don't be rude
>>>> and be a little more sensitive to other people's situations.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/09/08, Ticked off PROFESSIONAL wrote:
>>>>> On 3/08/08, Teacher wrote:
>>>>>> We can talk about how teachers are
>>>>>> not paid like professionals and all the stuff we have to put up
>>>>>> with all night long....but the reason we choose this job is
>>>>>> because we want to make a difference in the lives of kids.
>>>>>
>>>>> I absolutely hate this arguement. Its so flawed and full of crap!
>>>>> How dare you presume to know why I, or anyone else, went into
>>>>> teaching.
>>>>>
>>>>> In no profession is there a universal reason why everyone went
>>>>> into the profession. This includes teaching. Some cops, for
>>>>> instance, went into their field because they had an intrinsic,
>>>>> altruistic motivation to help people and fight crime. Others went
>>>>> in because they like uniforms and think carrying a gun is cool.
>>>>> Now that doesn't mean that the uniform/gun guy isn't a great cop,
>>>>> and that the "help people" guy is off the force in a year.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its the same thing in our field. Some went in for all the
>>>>> intrinsic, "save-the-world" stuff, and some like me wanted a
>>>>> steady job with decent pay, benefits, retirement, and summers off.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now guess what?? I'm a freaking great teacher! I've never had
>>>>> anything under an "Excellent" evaluation, even on my first year.
>>>>> I teach sped and have taken kids who at 15 can't read, can't even
>>>>> start the Gates-MacGinitie, and taken them to reading at the 8th
>>>>> grade level by the time they're 18. I've had parents cry in my
>>>>> office in gratitude. Yeah, I've had my failures, but I'd take my
>>>>> 8 years of teaching, stack it up against everyone else, and
>>>>> guarantee you I'm well above average in the "making a difference"
>>>>> catagory.
>>>>>
>>>>> Guess what? Many of the people who started with me who were going
>>>>> to help every child and save the world are not teaching anymore!
>>>>> They realized they can't save the world in a high school, and that
>>>>> they can't impact every single kid, so they got frustrated and
>>>>> left!
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't you dare say teachers who have the backbone to demand decent
>>>>> treatment and wages aren't good at their job! Not wanting to
>>>>> watch kids at lunch doesn't make us bad teachers! It makes us bad
>>>>> cafeteria employees, but certainly not bad teachers! My not
>>>>> wanting to watch kids throw fries at each other, FOR NO PAY, does
>>>>> not make me uncaring. It just means I have some self respect for
>>>>> myself and my profession.
>>>>>
>>>>> In my experience, the bleeding hearts are crying in the teaching
>>>>> lounge because some kid told him/her to F-off, while the more
>>>>> pragmatic of us would brush that off and teach. When people feel
>>>>> valued as professionals, they put forth a good effort and expect
>>>>> fair treatment and compensation back. Thats a good system! When
>>>>> people feel like they're doing charity work, they loose their
>>>>> enthusiasm when they realize the streets aren't paved with gold
>>>>> and eventually quit. You want volunteers teaching kids? People
>>>>> pure of heart? Then have a bunch of mommies come in to donate
>>>>> their time and see how well they teach. See how long they keep
>>>>> coming in too!
>>>>>
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