I appreciate that you aren't arguing--thanks :) I hate to argue!

I have had people argue w/ me on the subject and I just don't see it.
News about the bad economy is everywhere and most teachers I know love
to talk about it (maybe I just know f'ed up teachers :)). When I was in
my teaching program, nearly every teacher I came across seemed almost
delighted to tell me that I wouldn't find a job. Jesus--maybe I just
seriously knew some messed up folks, now that I think about it.

:)

On 6/09/09, just curious... wrote:
> I figured this would come up, so I'll respond to it...I don't mean
> this to argue against you or anyone who says "well graduates should
> have found out how tough it is...they are responsible for
> themselves." I agree with that, everyone is responsible for their
> own job search and choices...but I believe some people are not
> given the "full picture" and thus making choices on information
> they either don't have or don't have the full amount of.
>
> I agree, the INFOMATION on the teacher surplus is out there!
> HOWEVER when its not publizied or talked about like it should be,
> how would an inexperienced college student know, first off, where
> to access that infomation? And how are they going to know they
> need to find out about the surplus problem and go searching for
> information if no one is telling them that there IS a problem! How
> do you know to reserach a problem when no one had told you a
> serious problem exists? Colleges aren't sharing it, and after a
> through search for news articles on it I can count the total number
> of them on one hand.
>
> I've cringed several times these past few months when I've heard
> from recent graduates who didn't know HOW bad it was. But, looking
> at it objectively...college students, even when they are doing
> their fieldwork teaching, don't spend a TON of time in school
> offices or lounges, and even if they do not many of the people in
> there talk about the shortage - mostly because they are warm and
> comfortable in their tenured jobs! And I doubt many college career
> centers are sharing "full story" - mine certainly didn't! Neither
> did any of my instructors, advisors, or student teaching
> supervisors. Case in point: four years ago when I student taught,
> my building principal sat a group (about 15) of us down and asked
> us how many people we thought would be competing for the jobs that
> we out there. Most people in the group said about 25...he
> basically laughed in our face and said "Try 500!" That's how our
> little cohort learned the truth...no one had told it to us. And
> out of all the schools that small group went to (about 6) he was
> the only principal who bothered to share it. In fact, not only had
> we all visited our college career center, but we had JUST FINISHED
> and a mandatory seminar on finding a teaching job and all we heard
> was it would be "tough"!! Most of us knew it was "tough" getting a
> job but were shocked to find out how tough...because NO ONE HAD
> TOLD US THE TRUTH!
>
> I won't sugarcoat it..yes, the info was out there and me and my
> fellow students could have gone searching and found out. However,
> I doubt it would have been easy to find out the truth if it did.
> One of the VERY FEW major news articles on it was published in 2007
> in the DFP. Another recent article claimed that Michigan needs to
> ATTRACT more teachers to the field! There's no database or site
> (that I'm aware of - correct me if I'm wrong) that holds statistics
> on Michigans high unemployment rate among teachers or tells how
> many people you are competing against to find a job. So that's why
> I've brought it out here...to get the truth out into the light so
> MORE people can access it.
>
> Even some actual teachers don't seem to know how bad it is!!! A few
> months ago I was told by a teacher (a 20 year veteran) I had just
> become acquainted with that there *might* be a retirement in her
> building. I told her I would love to apply for the position, but
> knew how many applications there would be...and proceded to mention
> just a few of the numbers I had encountered on my job search. She
> was SHOCKED to hear that sometimes you have 1,000 of applications
> for a few positions! She honestly had NO IDEA it was this
> bad...and this is someone who has been working in Michigan schools
> for over 20 years! I've encountered many such people who have such
> a limited knowledge while subbing, not to mention the fact that
> most people OUTSIDE the world of public schools have NOOOOO
> knowledge of it whatsoever! I work a retail job and people get all
> excited for me when they hear a school *might* be hiring...until I
> burst their bubble by sharing the truth!
>
> So once again, I don't post this to argue with you, because I agree
> that everyone is responible for their own choices when it comes to
> choosing a career. But I do think the information needs to be
> better publicized and available to our state's college students who
> are *just* learning how to function in the world and will searching
> for their first job!
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/09/09, SpecEd Teacher wrote:
>> I don't mean to blame the education students but...it's not hard
>> to see that there are few jobs available in Michigan--it's not a
>> secret. I went from college straight to law school and heard
>> about how there were "no jobs" in the particular area of law that
>> I wanted to practice, so I got experience in a bunch of things
>> (of course, it's different in law than it is in teaching!!)
>>
>> When I switched careers to go into teaching, I was at first going
>> to be a general ed teacher in Social Studies with a minor in
>> Government & Speech. Within about a month of entering the
>> program, I learned that there were no jobs in those fields. I
>> switched to special ed and ended up loving it.
>>
>> I'm no smarter or more attuned than an average person, but I did
>> pay attention and keep my eyes and ears open. While I do blame
>> the teacher ed programs for this surplus crap that they throw
>> around, I also have to hold the education student responsible for
>> finding out about future job possibilities.
>>
>> That said, my district (urban public school) has a hiring freeze
>> but even without it, I doubt we'd be doing much hiring. My
>> special ed department has no openings and other than maybe the
>> Autism Impaired program, I am not sure any departments do.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> I think univesity advisors are investing in their job security
>>> by not telling the truth. Can't say I'd blame them in this
>>> economy!
>>>
>>> What to say about it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/09/09, just curious... wrote:
>>>> Just curious as to what numbers people have heard this year
>>>> regarding how many applicants there are for positions. I
>>>> applied at a small district a month ago (1 opening) and
>>>> what told by the principal they had over 150 applications
>>>> so had a big task ahead of them!! My inner voice
>>>> screamed" "That's all...try 1,000!" I have also read the
>>>> posts about 13,800 applicants in troy....uggh...
>>>>
>>>> So what numbers have you heard, or better yet been told by
>>>> administrators?
>>>>
>>>> I don't mean to bring this up to discourage people from
>>>> seeking jobs or bring down morale. Personally this is my
>>>> fifth year looking for a full-time classroom teaching
>>>> Michigan job...I did a minimum wage position as an aide and
>>>> went out of state for a while as well. I'm plugging away
>>>> at resumes, and have applied to at least 300 Michigan
>>>> schools/districts so far this spring (not to mention poured
>>>> $$ into resume paper, printer ink, envelopes, postage,
>>>> driving to deliver them, and driving to a few interviews).
>>>> If I don't get a job I plan to go back to school and go
>>>> into a healthcare field, I can perhaps find a job to
>>>> actually support myself, since subbing is so poorly paid,
>>>> plus you only get about 8 months worth of pay and can't
>>>> file unemployment for the other months!
>>>>
>>>> I bring this up because I'm shocked to hear so often from
>>>> recent graduates (some I've talked to on facebook, here and
>>>> on other boards) who had NO IDEA the job market was this
>>>> bad because university faculty just don't discuss it...I
>>>> know we weren't told much when I graduated in 2004 (my
>>>> student teaching building principal was the one who hit us
>>>> with the stone cold truth) and that was five years ago, its
>>>> soooo much worse now! And there has been vitually know
>>>> media/newspaper coverage of the problem. I'm sure many
>>>> students would (not all, but I know I would) have chosen a
>>>> different career path had they know the truth about
>>>> teaching in Michigan. I think the teacher "surplus" in our
>>>> state needs more attention so our college students can make
>>>> more informed decisions and not waste their money (as well
>>>> as that of Michigan taxpayers) when they won't be able to
>>>> find a job here in MI for years after they graduate.

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