On 6/09/09, Thankful wrote:
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> The first email is a rough draft th
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> I graduated in December of 2007. I was hired even before I graduated. t.
I am currently working as a Spanish Immersion Teacher. I
> have never been without a job.
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> I know that my experience is not the norm, but there

are teachers out
> there who do find jobs.
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> On 6/09/09, SpecEd Teacher wrote:
>> I appreciate that you aren't arguing--thanks :) I hate to argue!
>>
>> I have had people argue w/ me on the subject and I just don't see it.
>> News about the bad economy is everywhere and most teachers I know love
>> to talk about it (maybe I just know f'ed up teachers :)). When I was in
>> my teaching program, nearly every teacher I came across seemed almost
>> delighted to tell me that I wouldn't find a job. Jesus--maybe I just
>> seriously knew some messed up folks, now that I think about it.
>>
>> :)
>>
>>
>> On 6/09/09, just curious... wrote:
>>> I figured this would come up, so I'll respond to it...I don't mean
>>> this to argue against you or anyone who says "well graduates should
>>> have found out how tough it is...they are responsible for
>>> themselves." I agree with that, everyone is responsible for their
>>> own job search and choices...but I believe some people are not
>>> given the "full picture" and thus making choices on information
>>> they either don't have or don't have the full amount of.
>>>
>>> I agree, the INFOMATION on the teacher surplus is out there!
>>> HOWEVER when its not publizied or talked about like it should be,
>>> how would an inexperienced college student know, first off, where
>>> to access that infomation? And how are they going to know they
>>> need to find out about the surplus problem and go searching for
>>> information if no one is telling them that there IS a problem! How
>>> do you know to reserach a problem when no one had told you a
>>> serious problem exists? Colleges aren't sharing it, and after a
>>> through search for news articles on it I can count the total number
>>> of them on one hand.
>>>
>>> I've cringed several times these past few months when I've heard
>>> from recent graduates who didn't know HOW bad it was. But, looking
>>> at it objectively...college students, even when they are doing
>>> their fieldwork teaching, don't spend a TON of time in school
>>> offices or lounges, and even if they do not many of the people in
>>> there talk about the shortage - mostly because they are warm and
>>> comfortable in their tenured jobs! And I doubt many college career
>>> centers are sharing "full story" - mine certainly didn't! Neither
>>> did any of my instructors, advisors, or student teaching
>>> supervisors. Case in point: four years ago when I student taught,
>>> my building principal sat a group (about 15) of us down and asked
>>> us how many people we thought would be competing for the jobs that
>>> we out there. Most people in the group said about 25...he
>>> basically laughed in our face and said "Try 500!" That's how our
>>> little cohort learned the truth...no one had told it to us. And
>>> out of all the schools that small group went to (about 6) he was
>>> the only principal who bothered to share it. In fact, not only had
>>> we all visited our college career center, but we had JUST FINISHED
>>> and a mandatory seminar on finding a teaching job and all we heard
>>> was it would be "tough"!! Most of us knew it was "tough" getting a
>>> job but were shocked to find out how tough...because NO ONE HAD
>>> TOLD US THE TRUTH!
>>>
>>> I won't sugarcoat it..yes, the info was out there and me and my
>>> fellow students could have gone searching and found out. However,
>>> I doubt it would have been easy to find out the truth if it did.
>>> One of the VERY FEW major news articles on it was published in 2007
>>> in the DFP. Another recent article claimed that Michigan needs to
>>> ATTRACT more teachers to the field! There's no database or site
>>> (that I'm aware of - correct me if I'm wrong) that holds statistics
>>> on Michigans high unemployment rate among teachers or tells how
>>> many people you are competing against to find a job. So that's why
>>> I've brought it out here...to get the truth out into the light so
>>> MORE people can access it.
>>>
>>> Even some actual teachers don't seem to know how bad it is!!! A few
>>> months ago I was told by a teacher (a 20 year veteran) I had just
>>> become acquainted with that there *might* be a retirement in her
>>> building. I told her I would love to apply for the position, but
>>> knew how many applications there would be...and proceded to mention
>>> just a few of the numbers I had encountered on my job search. She
>>> was SHOCKED to hear that sometimes you have 1,000 of applications
>>> for a few positions! She honestly had NO IDEA it was this
>>> bad...and this is someone who has been working in Michigan schools
>>> for over 20 years! I've encountered many such people who have such
>>> a limited knowledge while subbing, not to mention the fact that
>>> most people OUTSIDE the world of public schools have NOOOOO
>>> knowledge of it whatsoever! I work a retail job and people get all
>>> excited for me when they hear a school *might* be hiring...until I
>>> burst their bubble by sharing the truth!
>>>
>>> So once again, I don't post this to argue with you, because I agree
>>> that everyone is responible for their own choices when it comes to
>>> choosing a career. But I do think the information needs to be
>>> better publicized and available to our state's college students who
>>> are *just* learning how to function in the world and will searching
>>> for their first job!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/09/09, SpecEd Teacher wrote:
>>>> I don't mean to blame the education students but...it's not hard
>>>> to see that there are few jobs available in Michigan--it's not a
>>>> secret. I went from college straight to law school and heard
>>>> about how there were "no jobs" in the particular area of law that
>>>> I wanted to practice, so I got experience in a bunch of things
>>>> (of course, it's different in law than it is in teaching!!)
>>>>
>>>> When I switched careers to go into teaching, I was at first going
>>>> to be a general ed teacher in Social Studies with a minor in
>>>> Government & Speech. Within about a month of entering the
>>>> program, I learned that there were no jobs in those fields. I
>>>> switched to special ed and ended up loving it.
>>>>
>>>> I'm no smarter or more attuned than an average person, but I did
>>>> pay attention and keep my eyes and ears open. While I do blame
>>>> the teacher ed programs for this surplus crap that they throw
>>>> around, I also have to hold the education student responsible for
>>>> finding out about future job possibilities.
>>>>
>>>> That said, my district (urban public school) has a hiring freeze
>>>> but even without it, I doubt we'd be doing much hiring. My
>>>> special ed department has no openings and other than maybe the
>>>> Autism Impaired program, I am not sure any departments do.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I think univesity advisors are investing in their job security
>>>>> by not telling the truth. Can't say I'd blame them in this
>>>>> economy!
>>>>>
>>>>> What to say about it?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/09/09, just curious... wrote:
>>>>>> Just curious as to what numbers people have heard this year
>>>>>> regarding how many applicants there are for positions. I
>>>>>> applied at a small district a month ago (1 opening) and
>>>>>> what told by the principal they had over 150 applications
>>>>>> so had a big task ahead of them!! My inner voice
>>>>>> screamed" "That's all...try 1,000!" I have also read the
>>>>>> posts about 13,800 applicants in troy....uggh...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what numbers have you heard, or better yet been told by
>>>>>> administrators?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't mean to bring this up to discourage people from
>>>>>> seeking jobs or bring down morale. Personally this is my
>>>>>> fifth year looking for a full-time classroom teaching
>>>>>> Michigan job...I did a minimum wage position as an aide and
>>>>>> went out of state for a while as well. I'm plugging away
>>>>>> at resumes, and have applied to at least 300 Michigan
>>>>>> schools/districts so far this spring (not to mention poured
>>>>>> $$ into resume paper, printer ink, envelopes, postage,
>>>>>> driving to deliver them, and driving to a few interviews).
>>>>>> If I don't get a job I plan to go back to school and go
>>>>>> into a healthcare field, I can perhaps find a job to
>>>>>> actually support myself, since subbing is so poorly paid,
>>>>>> plus you only get about 8 months worth of pay and can't
>>>>>> file unemployment for the other months!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I bring this up because I'm shocked to hear so often from
>>>>>> recent graduates (some I've talked to on facebook, here and
>>>>>> on other boards) who had NO IDEA the job market was this
>>>>>> bad because university faculty just don't discuss it...I
>>>>>> know we weren't told much when I graduated in 2004 (my
>>>>>> student teaching building principal was the one who hit us
>>>>>> with the stone cold truth) and that was five years ago, its
>>>>>> soooo much worse now! And there has been vitually know
>>>>>> media/newspaper coverage of the problem. I'm sure many
>>>>>> students would (not all, but I know I would) have chosen a
>>>>>> different career path had they know the truth about
>>>>>> teaching in Michigan. I think the teacher "surplus" in our
>>>>>> state needs more attention so our college students can make
>>>>>> more informed decisions and not waste their money (as well
>>>>>> as that of Michigan taxpayers) when they won't be able to
>>>>>> find a job here in MI for years after they graduate.

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