On 6/09/09, just curious... wrote:
> I agree with that, everyone is responsible for their
> own job search and choices...but I believe some people are not
> given the "full picture" and thus making choices on information
> they either don't have or don't have the full amount of.

I'd just point out the key word GIVEN. "People aren't GIVEN the 'full
picture...'" Well, I'm of the "Buyer Beware" opinion that if you wait
to be given information regarding something like choosing a college
major and a career, then you're asking to be a victim. When I bought a
house, just a couple years out of college, and whenever I buy/lease a
car, I research the heck out of it. These people can't be bothered to
do a couple Google searches, or touch base with some recent grads in the
field.

>
> I agree, the INFOMATION on the teacher surplus is out there!
> HOWEVER when its not publizied or talked about like it should be,
> how would an inexperienced college student know, first off, where
> to access that infomation?

How would an inexperienced college student know how to access the
information? How 'bout Google. A 20-year-old has grown up with the
internet and can sure do a Google search. A search of: Michigan teacher
job market yields several articles in the first ten listings that
indicates a tight job market. This includes an article titled" Why
Aren't There Any Teaching Jobs in Michigan?" by Tim Wei.

That said, I have a "college aged" 22 year-old cousin who has a Bronze
Star and two Purple Hearts with two tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan
who will be starting college this Fall. He's not a "kid" and hasn't
been one since 18. We make excuses for these "inexperienced college
students" and think of them as goofy kids who can't help themselves, but
that's something they do to themselves. They're adults, and they need
to take responsibility for themselves in life and quit blaming everyone
else like advisors, faculty etc... When my cousin was under fire, with
a bullet in his leg, and having to pull a buddy out who had a leg and an
arm blown off by an IED, he could've cried that his recruiter didn't
tell him this could happen. He didn't. He got the job done and you
won't hear him complain about one thing. If he can do that at 20 years
old, I think one of these "inexperienced college students" could figure
out that there aren't any elementary school teaching jobs in Michigan.

> Colleges aren't sharing it, and after a
> through search for news articles on it I can count the total number
> of them on one hand.

Like I said, I did a google search, and found 4 articles/blogs that
indicated the MI teaching job market sucks. How many do you need to see
before you start asking questions. I mean, its not going to be a lead
story on the 6 o'clock news. There does seem to be a Free Press or News
article about it every couple of years. Then again there are sites like
this one, where we'll be happy to set anyone straight who comes in
asking a question.

> I've cringed several times these past few months when I've heard
> from recent graduates who didn't know HOW bad it was. But, looking
> at it objectively...college students, even when they are doing
> their fieldwork teaching, don't spend a TON of time in school
> offices or lounges, and even if they do not many of the people in
> there talk about the shortage - mostly because they are warm and
> comfortable in their tenured jobs! And I doubt many college career
> centers are sharing "full story" - mine certainly didn't!

Neither
> did any of my instructors, advisors, or student teaching
> supervisors.

Well, by that point, why would they. You were already into the program
so deep by the time you start student teaching that knowing about this
wouldn't have made a difference. They might assume you already know,
and its discouraging to hear that there's no hope for a job day in and
day out.

In fact, not only had
> we all visited our college career center,

I don't know about college career centers. When I was finishing college
in the late 90s, all that office seemed good for was passing out
military pamphlets and maybe looking for after-school jobs while still
in college. I never knew anyone who got a professional position, in
education or out, from the college career center. At Wayne, in 1998, it
was pretty much useless and wouldn't have noticed if it had been shut
down. Depending on that office for anything other than a free Army
T-shirt seems fool-hardy.

but we had JUST FINISHED
> and a mandatory seminar on finding a teaching job and all we heard
> was it would be "tough"!! Most of us knew it was "tough" getting a
> job but were shocked to find out how tough...because NO ONE HAD
> TOLD US THE TRUTH!

Well, I agree the seminar was a waste if they didn't tell you anything.
There, they didn't do their jobs if the purpose of the seminar was job
hunting. But again, you're waiting for someone to do something for you
or to you. That's just a life philosophy that is as foreign to me as
the Taliban's (I'm not saying you're an Islamic extremist, just that
your point of view is very foreign to me). I was raised to fend for
myself, to ask questions, and to take responsibility for myself at a
young age. I researched the heck out of majors and careers before
declaring education, and this was back when the Internet was 56K with
little real information out there. I actually had to talk to people and
open journals. The MI teacher job market wasn't great at the time, but
the info I found did lead me to go Special Ed over PE or History. I
couldn't imagine just shrugging, declaring a major, and letting the
chips fall where they may. I mean, if I didn't care about a job after
school, I would've just majored in History, no education degree at all,
and left it at that.

> She was SHOCKED to hear that sometimes you have 1,000 of applications
> for a few positions! She honestly had NO IDEA it was this
> bad...and this is someone who has been working in Michigan schools
> for over 20 years!

And think about it, why would she know about the job market? Why would
she care? She has tenure and high seniority. She probably won't ever
have to look for a job again in her life, and has probably been in that
comfortable, enviable position for a decade. She's obviously not
involved with hiring, so she really wouldn't have a reason to know this.

If you think about it, do you know the process for retiring from
teaching and information about the pension plan or retiree health
insurance? Probably not, because it doesn't concern you and won't for a
long time, if ever. While I believe in researching information that
pertains to you, like the job market for your college major, I don't see
a reason for someone like her, or me with 10 years, nearly the top of
seniority in my department (thank you Retirees!) to know about the new
teacher job market.

> not to mention the fact that
> most people OUTSIDE the world of public schools have NOOOOO
> knowledge of it whatsoever! I work a retail job and people get all
> excited for me when they hear a school *might* be hiring...until I
> burst their bubble by sharing the truth!

Well again, why would they? I have no idea what the job market looks
like for computer programmers right now in Michigan or nationally. I
remember several years ago it was very hot, but now I don't know, and
really don't have a reason to know. I'm not a computer programmer, and
neither is my wife, so why would I care?

> But I do think the information needs to be
> better publicized and available to our state's college students who
> are *just* learning how to function in the world and will searching
> for their first job!

I guess you and I just disagree on the responsibility we put on college
students. I mentioned my 22-year-old, war-hero cousin. He's not *just*
learning to function in the world. I've also run into several former
students around 22 or so who had more than one child. They better not
be *just* learning to function in the world. Maybe we need to make
college something different than a second round of high school with
booze and dorms. I don't know. I know when I was graduating college at
23 I was a Staff Sergeant in the Air Force Reserve (though I don't have
the medals my young cousin wears) and considered myself a grown adult
with the same responsibilities my father and grandfather had.

In any event, Michigan is pretty much dead and will be for a long time.
If you are looking to make your own way in the world, then you should
either look at moving out-of-state to be a teacher (not this year,
because everywhere is bad right now) or look at going into something
other than teaching. Understand that even in healthcare, there's no
guarantee that you'll get a job in Michigan. Michigan sucks, and if
you're looking to build a life, its almost impossible to do so from
scratch in this state. I hope to sell my house, collect SOME equity
(maybe), and buy property outside of Michigan, renting while I live
here. All of the people I've talked to tell me that there will be no
housing recovery in Michigan, period, and there won't be a general
economic recovery here either. We were in recession in MI well before
any other state, and we'll be in recession long after the rest of the
nation is out of it. GM and the others are essentially dead in MI, and
even if they live on, the plants will be in Right-to-Work states, not
MI. You're talking 20 years or more of misery and we haven't even
scratched the surface. I'm a tenured teacher, with almost no
possibility of lay-off, and I'm selling my home and hoping to rent
because I don't want an anchor around my leg when I do decide to leave.
If you're a young would-be teacher, or anything else for that matter,
get out when things turn around in the rest of the country and don't
look back!

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