Re: The Education System is FAILING
    Posted by: fight back now on 7/09/14
    () Comments

    I would never characterize the United States as having a long,
    stupid tradition. We have long led the world in conservation
    efforts, in philanthropy, in innovation, basically in freedom. Our
    Constitution is the most read and studied document in the world.
    Freedom and money go hand in hand. In the past schools could buy
    the best resources, thus creating opportunities. Now, we are being
    squeezed into a socially engineered experiment with our students as
    guinea pigs, by economically buying into what makes Gates and
    Pearson rich. We, the teachers, sure won't get rich in the equation.
    They are after our salaries and our pensions. If we don't fight
    back we will lose everything and all we will have left is a bunch of
    cheap computers and robot teachers. Free certainly isn't having
    King Arne Duncan run your little box schoolhouse. That is slavery.
    Read history. It is enlightening because what you are pushing has
    been tried and failed, thus the constant influx of people pushing
    into our country.

    On 7/09/14, PsyGuy wrote:
    > Yeah a long stupid tradition (hello metric system), different
    doesnt
    > mean better. We brag about freedom, but in most of the world such
    > as europe, etc they are a lot more free than we are. No one is
    > flooding our borders for "freedom" they are doing so for dollars.
    > You could argue that its the freedom of making dollars, but dont
    > fool yourself, love makes the world go round, love of money.
    >
    > On 7/09/14, don't sell our kids wrote:
    >> The United States has a long history of not doing what every
    >> other country in the world is doing. We do freedom.
    >> Centralized education is not freedom. Right now, if you don't
    >> like something your school is doing on behalf of YOUR child, go
    >> to your local school board and change it. If PsyGuy wins, are
    >> you going to fly to Washington and get something changed with a
    >> bunch of educrats in suits? Yeah, right. This discussion all
    >> rides on whether or not you think your child is best served by a
    >> conveyor belt, factory approach to education. Once our children
    >> are sold for profits, there is no turning back, and teaching can
    >> be controlled, and it will be. Teachers will largely be
    >> replaced with uncertified people...yes, even boorish PsyGuy will
    >> lose his cushy job because he is just a patsy, and after all,
    >> profits matter. Read history. My argument is proved every day
    >> by the people flooding our borders to get here, where freedom
    >> still exists. Freedom is in our local elected school boards,
    >> not a takeover of schools by the feds so they can be sold to
    >> rich men in suits.
    >>
    >>
    >> n 7/08/14, PsyGuy wrote:
    >>> Yes i can compare mass producing iPhones or any consumer
    >>> good to the education of children, just because you don't
    >> agree
    >>> with it doesn't make it flawed. Education and manufacturing
    >> are
    >>> both system processes. Kids arent unique, lots of educators
    >> and
    >>> human development professionals want to think they are, but
    >>> biologically the cognitive mechanism of learning is
    >> equivalent.
    >>> Thats why teaching works as a profession. You put 30 kids in a
    >>> room, present instruction, and about 24 of them are successful
    >>> in the knowledge transfer process.
    >>>
    >>> Yes its against the law now, but laws change, and theres no
    >>> reason to create a separate government office or department to
    >>> manage a national curriculum.
    >>>
    >>> So, what EVERY other country in the world is brainwashing
    >> their
    >>> youth because they have a "national curriculum", sounds like a
    >>> conspiracy run by extra terrestrials.
    >>>
    >>> Yes students should be assessed based on objective test
    >> scores,
    >>> thats how EVERY other country in the world does it, and how
    >>> this country does it for a lot of professions, want to be a
    >>> teacher, you have to take the TeXas PPR and the content exams,
    >>> its the same in EVERY regulated profession, why, tests work,
    >>> they are scientifically and statistically valid measures of
    >>> performance. They have far higher validity and reliability
    >> than
    >>> some teachers subjective measurement.
    >>>
    >>> On 7/08/14, PsyGuy's argument is faulty wrote:
    >>>> PsyGuy's argument is flawed. You can't compare mass
    >>>> producing iPhones on a factory line, with the education of
    >>>> children, each unique. However, his argument illustrates
    >>>> the reason why it is all crashing down. It is against the
    >>>> law in the US for the Department of Education to impose a
    >>>> "curriculum" or standards on all the schools. That is why
    >>>> there was the "Race to the Top" contest, so states would
    >>>> grab the $$ and the claim could be made they were choosing
    >>>> this crap. PsyGuy only wants the national curr. and
    >>>> standards if his political side writes their slant into
    >>>> them and the students are getting brainwashed his way. He
    >>>> doesn't want them brainwashed by your political team. I
    >>>> don't want the gov't. in our schools at all because
    >>>> politicians don't know what the heck we do in the
    >>>> classroom. Local control and choice is the most powerful
    >>>> position, and the one where quality can be chosen for
    >>>> students. Take PsyGuy's stand and make Gates and Pearson
    >>>> rich...he needs another yacht and mansion by evaluating
    >>>> teachers based on student test scores, don't ya' think?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> On 7/08/14, PsyGuy wrote:
    >>>>> The Department of Education.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Thats why their called standards, you dont need to "like"
    >>>>> them,
    >>>> you
    >>>>> need to comply with them.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Common core sucks, we need a national curriculum that
    >>>>> works, just because the first implementation doesnt work
    >>>>> does not mean abandon the cause. Every other country in
    >>>>> the world has a national curriculum and they didnt get it
    >>>>> right the first time either.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Would you want your iPhone made without standards, would
    >>>>> you want your doctor not held to a standard of care and
    >>>>> licensing, or would you prefer your doctor get to do
    >>>>> whatever they want because of "freedom" and they dont
    >>>>> "like" the standards everyone else agrees with is good
    >>>>> patient care.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> On 7/07/14, my 2 wrote:
    >>>>>> Let's say you support a national set of standards. Who
    >>>>>> is the puppeteer? We have Common Core, and over 27
    >>>>>> states have legislation to get out. Ask yourself, "Why?"
    >>>>>> You want kids to have the choice of the same education
    >>>>>> as everyone else, but if you have Common Standards, you
    >>>>>> end up with no choice,
    >>>>> because if
    >>>>>> you don't like them, you can't move to get away because
    >>>>>> they are everywhere. We already see people moving to
    >>>>>> Texas to get away from Common Core. It is naive to
    >>>>>> assume that the "standards" chosen for everyone by some
    >>>>>> political person who has never been in education are
    >>>>>> going to be the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
    >>>>>> Get real. If you are fighting for poor kids, give them a
    >>>>>> real shot at opportunity. Freedom is always more choice,
    >>>>>> not less. Think about it, there always was a standard
    >>>>>> spiral curriculum, because textbooks were sold to more
    >>>>>> than one state. If things were not standardized at a
    >>>>>> basic level, that couldn't have worked, but it did.
    >>>>>> Look, just on this chat thread, three people can't even
    >>>>>> agree about the issue of personalized learning vs.
    >>>>>> standardized. Yet, you want someone in Washington to
    >>>>>> write standards for all of us? The question is why would
    >>>>>> you, who pretend to care about poor children, sell your
    >>>>>> students to the money machine of CC and all the
    >>>>>> testing...to line the pockets Gates, Walmart, Broad,
    >>>>>> etc? Education is not about profits. You are fighting on
    >>>>>> the wrong side and at some deep level you must know
    >>> that
    >>>>>> selling your students to Wally-world schools isn't going
    >>>>>> to fix the world for them. They will just drop out,
    >>>>>> frustrated over the testing money machine.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> On 7/07/14, PsyGuy wrote:
    >>>>>>> Students ned to have knowledge and understanding of
    >>>>>>> subject material OUTSIDE those fields of study they
    >>>>>>> find interesting.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> The outside world will require these young students to
    >>>>>>> do various amounts or work and tasks that they DONT
    >>>>>>> find interesting, life is not all about fun.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> STANDARDS need to be stronger, we are the ONLY
    >>> country
    >>>>>>> in the world that does not have a NATIONAL curriculum
    >>>>>>> and you dont even want a national standard, your
    >>>>>>> position is basically
    >>>>>> to
    >>>>>>> support NON ACCOUNTABILITY. We tried that we ended
    >>> up
    >>>>>>> with football players who couldnt read, and nice girls
    >>>>>>> who were
    >>>>>> great
    >>>>>>> teachers pets who couldnt do arithmetic.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> No they are not all capable of becoming genesis,
    >>>>>>> Intelligence distribution has CONSTANTLY been shown
    >>> to
    >>>>>>> fit a normal curve.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On 7/06/14, To AW wrote:
    >>>>>>>> I am pushing the fact that the main curriculum of
    >>>>>>>> schools should be a model that allows for a
    >>>>>>>> personalized curriculum. Personalization should not be
    >>>>>>>> just through "electives", it should the core of the
    >>>>>>>> curriculum.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Anybody, not just kids, will put forth an extreme
    >>>>>>>> amount of effort to learn things that interest them,
    >>>>>>>> and appeal to them. It needs to be incorporated in
    >>>>>>>> every student's learning.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Students associate learning with boring things at
    >>>>>>>> school. This only creates kids that are disinterested
    >>>>>>>> in doing anything to learn, or anything to do with
    >>>>>>>> school. Instead of creating students with this
    >>>>>>>> attitude, we need to create students who are intrigued
    >>>>>>>> in learning, and want to be better themselves.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Also, the standardization needs to abolished. We can
    >>>>>>>> not rank kids based on a set of values that we think
    >>>>>>>> are important. Not all kids are going to be successful
    >>>>>>>> at those values, and the ranking system only tells
    >>>>>>>> them that they aren't good enough to be anything.
    >>>>>>>> They're humans. Humans that have different interests,
    >>>>>>>> different talents, different tastes, and different
    >>>>>>>> things they are capable of excelling at. Why are we
    >>>>>>>> not embracing these differences? We don't encourage
    >>>>>>>> students to do what they're good at, but instead we
    >>>>>>>> rank them on what they might not be good at. Then
    >>> that
    >>>>>>>> ranking effects their future by inhibiting them from a
    >>>>>>>> good college, as well as psychologically because they
    >>>>>>>> feel they aren't capable of doing anything great.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Students are not born smart (maybe some), like the
    >>>>>>>> ranking system (GPA/Grades) suggests. They are ALL
    >>>>>>>> capable of becoming geniuses at ANYTHING they
    >>> please,
    >>>>>>>> but when you tell a student his GPA is bad & compare
    >>>>>>>> him to someone else who is way better, they feel
    >>>>>>>> worthless. When really, that might not even be what
    >>>>>>>> interests him, nor where his talent shines!
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> On 7/04/14, AW wrote:
    >>>>>>>>> Hunter, I can't justify common core as "we" in Texas
    >>>>>>>>> don't use it. Psyguy is a proponent of common core
    >>> so
    >>>>>>>>> he would have to enlighten you with CC's program is
    >>>>>>>>> so beneficial.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> I was replying to your "solutions." Most of your
    >>>>>>>>> comments are "general" and various comments may
    >>> apply
    >>>>>>>>> to some schools,
    >>>>>>>> but
    >>>>>>>>> I would guess that could be applied to any state or
    >>>>>>>>> country. None of your comments apply to my school.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> So I have to ask....what program are you pushing?


    Posts on this thread, including this one

  • The Education System is FAILING, 7/01/14, by Hunter.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/01/14, by Hunter.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/02/14, by AW -- I think you are a little behind the times.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/03/14, by Huner.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/04/14, by AW.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/04/14, by to Hunter.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/04/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/04/14, by to PsyGuy.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/04/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/04/14, by answer.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/06/14, by muinteoir.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/06/14, by To AW.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/07/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/07/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/07/14, by my 2 .
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/07/14, by my 2 .
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/07/14, by hmmmmmm.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/08/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/08/14, by PsyGuy's argument is faulty.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/08/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/09/14, by don't sell our kids.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/09/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/09/14, by fight back now.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/09/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/10/14, by Hunter.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/10/14, by to Hunter.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/10/14, by whomever.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/11/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/11/14, by about Finland.
  • Re: The Education System is FAILING, 7/13/14, by Hunter.