Re: I was treated unfairly
    Posted by: PsyGuy on 7/16/14
    () Comments

    No schools are very much a business. No your not a subcontractor,
    you get a W-2 at the end of the year not a 1099, and "you" are not
    a separately incorporated entity contracting your services to the
    district, as a temp service might. You are as much hired on a
    contract by the organization (the district) and are directly
    employed by them. I know youd like to think of yourself as an
    independent contractor, because then the natural flow of the
    argument would easily support the idea that the school/district
    doesnt direct your work, but your not an independent or sub
    contractor, your a direct employee, and your employer very much
    has the power to direct and dictate your work. You dont have to
    work on a factory line to be an employee (as opposed to sub
    contractor) and you cant legally be required to do anything illegal,
    this is true in any job or position or career, you do have to make
    sure you can prove your case and that you were asked to do
    something illegal or criminal. Changing a grade or being asked to
    change a grade is not illegal, a teachers grade is final, unless it
    meets certain criteria, and most principals simply say that criteria
    is met.

    You are as much a free agent as your free to accept or decline the
    districts offer of employment, but accepting it very much makes
    you a direct hire employee.

    On 7/16/14, re: psy Guy's comment wrote:
    > PsyGuy favors comparing education to business, which is a
    > fallacy of argument. Schools aren't a business. It is true
    > that we have a boss, called a principal, and generally
    > speaking, if your boss tells you to do something you do it or
    > you risk insubordination which can get you fired--that part
    > holds true. We are more like an architect, you don't hire one
    > and then try to have an incompetent tell him how to design a
    > house. The part that does not hold water is that teachers
    > (when compared to the other world) are more like
    > subcontractors. We are put on a contract to deliver a
    > service, and when a principal asks a teacher to do something
    > as unethical as changing a grade, the case can be made that
    > the teacher's reputation and career could be affected by going
    > along with something depending on the circumstances. There
    > was, in fact, a case where a principal directed a clan of
    > teachers to cheat on state testing by changing answers. The
    > teachers went along with it, and ended up facing criminal
    > charges. We don't work on a factory line, as PsyGuy would
    > describe. We are essentially free agents that contract with
    > the schools. For me, I maintain high ethics at all times. We
    > have to defend our teaching to the community at large and in
    > the end my job is on the line if my scores aren't strong.
    > Most of the principals I have worked with don't know how to
    > lead in the area of instructional design and many don't seem
    > to know much about classroom management either.
    >
    >
    > On 7/16/14, PsyGuy wrote:
    >> No business owners are the only ones unsupervised.
    >> Principals are very much supervised by both the board and
    >> the sup.
    >>
    >> Sure teachers careers can be ruined from evil principals,
    >> but thats no more or less true than in any profession or
    >> business. You can have an evil VP that ruins your banking
    >> career just as easily.
    >>
    >> Well if your supervisor tells you to change the grade, Id
    >> change the grade. Why anyone would think you could tell
    >> your supervisor no, and keep your job baffles me. Theres a
    >> reason its called a supervisor subordinate relationship.
    >> If im going to lose my job its going to be over money or
    >> seex, not one students grade.
    >>
    >> On 7/16/14, anon wrote:
    >>> Thank you for a great post. It is the truth. PsyGuy
    >>> should just shut up on threads having to do with the
    >>> abuse of teachers
    >> because
    >>> it is clear he knows nothing of what he is talking about.
    >>>
    >>> Principals are the worst supervisors in the economy for
    >>> the simple reason they aren't supervised. It's rare these
    >>> days to find one who is any good at all. Teachers can and
    >>> do get their lives destroyed just on a principal's whim,
    >>> and anybody who denies this reality is either a liar or
    >>> an idiot.
    >>>
    >>> All it takes to get a career ruined is to refuse to
    >>> change a grade when a principal orders it because of a
    >>> parent's complaint. All it takes is to get sick and use
    >>> FMLA to have a career ruined. It's all about covering for
    >>> a principal's or other administrator's worthless ass no
    >>> matter what the consequences to others.
    >>>
    >>> On 7/16/14, Empathy and Sympathy wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> PsyGuy? Are you a naturally self-superior, didactic,
    >>>> person, or do you have to work at it? Bottom line is,
    >>>> are you for real? Or just putting everyone on.
    >>>>
    >>>> What in the hell makes you think you know a single thing
    >>>> about what other people are experiencing and the
    >>>> motivations behind how certain administrators operate
    >>>> and why they do as they do.
    >>>>
    >>>> Sure, you are right in that the job of a principal is to
    >>>> manage the school and the teachers. And that it is the
    >>>> job of the teacher to adapt to a new style of management
    >>>> if required.
    >>>>
    >>>> But if you think you can make a silly blanket statement
    >>>> that all administrators are propelled by nothing more
    >>>> than a desire to better their school with nothing
    >>>> personal involved when it comes to teachers, then you
    >>>> must live on Planet Altair-4.
    >>>>
    >>>> Whether it fits your fanciful vision or not, there are
    >>>> some principals out there who are mean, stupid,
    >>>> vindictive, tyrannical, and have no conscience at all
    >>>> when it comes to destroying teaching careers. And if
    >>>> they have it in for you, then no amount of attempted
    >>>> adaptation on the part of the teacher is going to change
    >>>> it.
    >>>>
    >>>> One bit of proof is that more and more teachers are
    >>>> finally relating it, and many others are leaving in
    >>>> droves (as another poster said), because their physical
    >>>> and mental health, and even sense of personal dignity,
    >>>> cannot forever withstand the assaults .
    >>>>
    >>>> When was the last time *you* (if you ever were at all)
    >>>> in a classroom? What are *your* credentials to presume
    >>>> to lecture REAL teachers who know first hand of what
    >>>> they speak of, as to what they need to know?
    >>>>
    >>>> Your post is about the most insensitively, boorish, that
    >>>> I have read it a long time. I don't mean with me...I am
    >>>> tough enough to handle it, but with Mini. Again, when
    >>>> was the last time you ever bent over a desk to help a
    >>>> student or contribute to the teaching realm. Far as that
    >>>> goes, when was the last time you ever bent over for work
    >>>> at all, unless it was to kiss some C-Scope executives
    >>>> patootie (yeah, I have read you before on this one).
    >>>>
    >>>> Ordinarily, I wouldn't make comments like this to
    >>>> anyone. But your post was beyond the pale and shows an
    >>>> appalling ignorance of the realities of teaching today,
    >>>> and what more and more educators are forced to endure.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> On 7/15/14, PsyGuy wrote:
    >>>>> Well they arent dictators, they are your supervisor,
    >>>>> and
    >>>> their job
    >>>>> is to manage you and the school. Thats means that
    >>>>> things dont always go your way, and maybe your no
    >>>>> longer a good fit for the school and its leadership.
    >>>>> Its your job to be flexible
    >>>> and
    >>>>> adapt to your schools leadership and culture, not the
    >>>>> other
    >>>> way
    >>>>> around. Being a good fit for 15 years doesnt mean you
    >>>>> can
    >>>> just
    >>>>> keep repeating that behavior indefinitely. Professional
    >>>>> good professional adapt to change. Including changes in
    >>>>> management. I really dont know why people can think not
    >>>>> getting along with your boss is going to somehow be
    >>>>> okay.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> On 7/15/14, mini wrote:
    >>>>>> Thank you so much everyone for your support. I will be
    >>>>>> substitute teaching. Like some of you are. Because we
    >>>>>> need to make a living. I can never get past this
    >>>>>> because employers look at your last job, even if you
    >>>>>> worked for them before with a great record. I am
    >>>>>> leaving TX because I can't afford to live here
    >>>>>> anymore. I will have to go and live with family. That
    >>>>>> is why I named the good guys and bad guys in my
    >>>>>> situation. For Psyguy yes this is a job, but in the
    >>>>>> private sector I at least would have 6 months to prove
    >>>>>> myself. I didn't get that in a 4 month contract. So, I
    >>>>>> can only assume it was a hack job. Why,I don't know?
    >>>>>> Like I said before my direct supervisor and co-
    >>>>>> workers were very kind, they showed me the ropes, they
    >>>>>> answered my questions. I got along with them. Thank
    >>>>>> you everyone. I know I have lost. I just had to say
    >>>>>> something to someone. Thank you! Thank you!


    Posts on this thread, including this one

  • I was treated unfairly, 7/10/14, by mini.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/10/14, by mini.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/10/14, by mini.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/11/14, by anon.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/11/14, by to mini.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/11/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/12/14, by anon.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/12/14, by Real name.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/15/14, by Empathy and Sympathy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/15/14, by To empathy & sympathy .
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/15/14, by anon.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/15/14, by Feel your Pain....
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/15/14, by there is hope!.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/15/14, by I know what you are going through.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/15/14, by I know what you are going through.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/15/14, by mini.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/15/14, by Dave.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/15/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/15/14, by mini.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/15/14, by anon.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/15/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/16/14, by Empathy and Sympathy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/16/14, by Integrity.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/16/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/16/14, by anon.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/16/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/16/14, by re: psy Guy's comment.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/16/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/16/14, by retort.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/16/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/17/14, by A great teacher is irreplaceable.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/17/14, by anon.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/17/14, by anon.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/17/14, by Jo.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/17/14, by Teachers with the "it" factor.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/17/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/17/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/17/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/17/14, by anon.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/17/14, by Jo.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 7/18/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 9/18/14, by C Davis.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 9/20/14, by Janice VanCleave.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 9/20/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 9/20/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 9/20/14, by anon.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 9/20/14, by anon.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 9/21/14, by anon.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 9/22/14, by Anon.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 9/24/14, by EasTexSteve.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 9/24/14, by to EasTex Steve.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 9/25/14, by EasTexSteve.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 9/26/14, by not here.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 9/28/14, by both are right.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 10/21/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 10/21/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 10/21/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 10/28/14, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: I was treated unfairly, 10/28/14, by PsyGuy.