Re: 27,000 a year?
    Posted by: 27k on 5/19/15
    () Comments

    You absolutely can pay shortage area teachers more and we do in
    Texas in the form of stipends, but those stipends are typically a
    few grand. I see no reason why the stipends can't be
    significantly more if there, indeed, are shortage areas.

    It doesn't matter if a job is more or less difficult. What
    matters is the labor pool available to do the job. A correctional
    officer or landscaper works harder than I do, but I make more
    money because I have a skill they don't and am part of a different
    labor pool.

    Put out an ad for a 3rd grade teacher and you will likely get an
    avalanche of applications. Put out an ad for a Spanish-speaking
    sped teacher, and you might not get any applications. So, how do
    you attract a Spanish speaking sped teacher if that is what you
    need? Jargon and rhetoric? Beg and talk about the precious
    children? You hear a lot of that, but that is ineffective. No,
    you attract people by offering more money. Offer A didn't work,
    so try offer A + 2000. That didn't work, how about A + 5000 and
    so on. Offer A got more than enough candidates for the 3rd grade
    position. If a candidate doesn't want it, then the 2nd or 3rd
    choice will. There is an ample supply of labor for the 3rd grade
    job, so there is no need to pay more (in fact, an argument might
    be to pay less).

    This is why computer programmers make a lot more than teachers
    (especially early on), as a rule. Not because they work harder,
    or are better educated, but because they have a different labor pool.

    On 5/19/15, anon wrote:
    > The bottom line, so to speak, is you cannot pay math and
    > science teachers or special education teachers more than
    > those in other subject areas in public ed. These jobs aren't
    > more difficult to do than say kindergarten, a job that
    > requires a tremendous amount of prep time and one of the
    > reasons teachers more often than not have assistants in the
    > classroom. Supply and demand ideas just don't apply in these
    > types of jobs.
    >
    > Current teachers can always get endorsements in hard to fill
    > areas, and many of them actually have the endorsements like
    > special ed but go into a regular classroom.
    >
    >
    > On 5/18/15, Dave wrote:
    >> Thats not true substitutes can be paid anything the
    >> district feels they are worth whether they are certified or
    >> not. Its CONTRACT employees who must be offered the same
    >> salary scale, and even then the only requirement is that
    >> districts and schools offer the state minimum, and that
    >> classes of teachers be treated equally. This is why Sp.Ed
    >> and math/science teachers have been offered stipends in the
    >> past, and nothing would prohibit a district from paying an
    >> art teacher or P.E. teacher the state minimum and a math
    >> teacher the state minimum, plus a $20K stipend. As long as
    >> all Math teachers were offered the same stipend it would be
    >> legal.
    >>
    >> Bonuses arent illegal, but I only know one district (and
    >> its a Charter) that gives large payout bonuses.
    >>
    >> On 5/16/15, Payscale differ wrote:
    >>> Payscales vary for subs and long-term subs in different
    >>> districts. But teachers who ARE certified have to be paid
    >>> the same level -, no matter what district / position
    >>> you're in per Texas law. Schools with difficulties in
    >>> filling hard to fill positions most likely will hire
    >>> uncertified and not-yet certified teachers as short and
    >>> long-term (year-long) with a promise of large sum payoff
    >>> at end of contract as if they're certified teachers. This
    >>> is a way of keeping contracts 'money attractive' to
    >>> applicants instead of searching and paying already
    >>> certfified teachers $40K annually at year zero.
    >>>
    >>> On 5/14/15, anon wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> Rules about supply and demand do NOT apply in public
    >>> employment
    >>>> because they are non-profits.
    >>>>
    >>>> It would be highly unfair to pay somebody more money
    >>> because
    >>>> they are math or science teachers than kindergarten,
    >>>> which is a LOT harder work and which helps lay the
    >>>> groundwork for future academic success.
    >>>>
    >>>> The ONLY fair compensation in the public sector is in
    >> the
    >>>> step system.
    >>>>
    >>>> Your post is idiotic on its face.
    >>>>
    >>>> On 5/13/15, 27K No Way! wrote:
    >>>>> There is a shortage of teachers in some fields that are
    >>>>> willing to work for low teacher pay, like Spanish
    >>>>> speaking ELL, STEM, sped... the list is pretty well
    >>>>> known and it is similar around the country. These
    >>>>> "shortages" would be cleared up if they raised the pay
    >>>>> for these fields.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Texas doesn't have collective bargaining for teachers,
    >>>>> but it still makes the same mistake collective
    >>>>> bargaining states make in simply having one salary for
    >>>>> all teachers. Yes, some of it is based upon
    >> performance,
    >>>>> but there is no recognition of the fact that there are
    >>>>> sub-sets of teachers that have a very different labor
    >>>>> market. There is simply a lack of intelligence when it
    >>>>> comes to understanding supply and demand. A
    >>>>> Spanish-speaking, HS Math teacher has a lot of other
    >>>>> career options than a regular old elementary teacher.
    >>>>> Not to say the elem teacher doesn't work hard, but hard
    >>>>> work is not (typically) what results in higher pay in a
    >>>>> free market...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> If the supply of teachers outstrips demand for their
    >>>>> labor, then you must increase the supply by attracting
    >>>>> more people into the field on a macro-level. That
    >>>>> Spanish-speaking Math teacher, who has other options
    >> in,
    >>>>> say: IT or engineering, might then be attracted to the
    >>>>> field. The general ed elementary teacher... probably
    >>>>> doesn't have that skill set and therefore their labor
    >> is
    >>>>> not as scarce.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> On a micro-level, an individual district should
    >> increase
    >>>>> it's pay for the type of teacher that is in short
    >> supply
    >>>>> to attract what supply of labor does exist. A district
    >>>>> superintendent at one ISD probably can't affect change
    >>>>> that will bring more Math or Sped teachers into the
    >>>>> overall labor pool, but they can pay more to attract
    >> the
    >>>>> scarce labor to their classrooms. The problem is that
    >>>>> they don't think about teachers in sub-sets. They think
    >>>>> think they need to pay a "shortage" area teacher the
    >>>>> same as a non-shortage area teacher, which makes pay
    >>>>> increases insufficient to attract people in the
    >> shortage
    >>>>> fields. You don't need to pay a gym teacher more...,
    >>>>> there are already a hundred applicants for every
    >>>>> position, but you might need to pay a STEM or sped
    >>>>> teacher more because those classrooms could go
    >> unfilled.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Regardless: I wouldn't teach any subject for 27K per
    >>>>> year.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> On 5/01/15, PsyGuy wrote:
    >>>>>> The presentation that there is a shortage of teachers
    >>>>>> is a myth, there are a lot of teachers that will
    >> accept
    >>>>>> any job that pays more than substituting (which at $80
    >>>>>> a day for 150 days is $12,000).
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> On 4/24/15, 27k BS wrote:
    >>>>>>> 27K is garbage pay and you'll attract garbage
    >> teachers
    >>>>>>> at that salary... if that. You could make more in a
    >>>>>>> call center or cubical farm without the BS involved
    >>>>>>> with teaching.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On 4/21/15, PsyGuy wrote:
    >>>>>>>> Well yes and no. It is likely that your
    >>>>>>>> district/school is adapting the state minimum salary
    >>>>>>>> schedule which is $27,540 for step 0, however the
    >>>>>>>> salary schedule does increase on average about $500
    >>>>>>>> per year of experience. You can find the state
    >>>>>>>> minimum salary schedule here:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>> tea.texas.gov/Texas_Educators/Salary_and_Service_Record/M
    >>>>>>>> inimum _Salary_Schedule/2014-
    >>> 2015_Minimum_Salary_Schedule/
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Anything more than that is whats referred to as
    >>>>>>>> "local supplemental" salary, which your district can
    >>>>>>>> change or eliminate entirely.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> As to why, there could be a number of reasons.
    >> First,
    >>>>>>>> is to incentivise teachers to retire or resign,
    >>>>>>>> without going through long and expensive grievance
    >>>>>>>> procedures. Second, is if your district is
    >>>>>>>> implementing a "pay for performance" or "bonus"
    >>>>>>>> salary program. You get the
    >>>>>> state
    >>>>>>>> minimum and depending on your student pass
    >>>>>> (satisfactory)
    >>>>>>>> and commended (advanced) numbers you get bonus pay,
    >>>>>> which
    >>>>>>>> may or may not exceed your conventional salary.
    >>>>>>>> Third, your district may be experiencing a financial
    >>>>>>>> or budgetary crises, perhaps they are anticipating a
    >>>>>>>> loss
    >>>>>> of
    >>>>>>>> federal funding, etc. There could be a number of
    >>>>>>>> other reasons.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> On 4/18/15, Aeiou wrote:
    >>>>>>>>> Can someone explain this? Does this apply to all
    >>>>>> current
    >>>>>>>>> employed teachers? What are they doing to do? Drop
    >>> my
    >>>>>>>>> pay to 27,000 after I made 40,000 a year? That is
    >> BS
    >>>>>>>>> if so.....


    Posts on this thread, including this one

  • PDAS Stuff, 2/13/15, by Sovetis.
  • Re: PDAS Stuff, 2/14/15, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: PDAS Stuff, 2/14/15, by Sovetis.
  • Re: PDAS Stuff, 2/15/15, by my 2.
  • Re: PDAS Stuff, 2/16/15, by Formeradmin.
  • Re: PDAS Stuff, 2/17/15, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: PDAS Stuff, 2/17/15, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: 27,000 a year?, 4/18/15, by Aeiou.
  • Re: 27,000 a year?, 4/21/15, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: 27,000 a year?, 4/24/15, by 27k BS.
  • Re: 27,000 a year?, 4/27/15, by BS bs.
  • Re: 27,000 a year?, 5/01/15, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: 27,000 a year?, 5/13/15, by 27K No Way!.
  • Re: 27,000 a year?, 5/14/15, by anon.
  • Re: 27,000 a year?, 5/16/15, by Payscale differ.
  • Re: 27,000 a year?, 5/16/15, by ash.
  • Re: 27,000 a year?, 5/17/15, by 27k.
  • Re: 27,000 a year?, 5/18/15, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: 27,000 a year?, 5/18/15, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: 27,000 a year?, 5/18/15, by Dave.
  • Re: 27,000 a year?, 5/18/15, by PsyGuy.
  • Re: 27,000 a year?, 5/19/15, by anon.
  • Re: 27,000 a year?, 5/19/15, by 27k.
  • Re: 27,000 a year?, 5/20/15, by PsyGuy.