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Re: Dibels reading assess.
Posted by plcarlson on 1/01/07

    Our school has been using it now for four years. We were a Reading First school. It
    may help to identify kids in grades K and 1, but informally the teacher has already
    figured out those kids with difficulty. This test is very time consuming for the
    classroom teacher. She is told it is only a minute, the administration is told that
    too....Well, when you have maybe 10 kids to monitor, possibly weekly, it becomes
    much more valuable time than realized. It takes from set up to completion close to
    20 min. That is instruction time wasted, because now what are the interventions and
    more time then is needed for those students. We have found that it is nice
    documentation for SBIT or RTI, but that can come from any Title 1 or simple
    assessments as well. Now, the teacher will be asked to punch the scores in on the
    internet site as well, another thing to take more time.

    The readability of these passages varies greatly. We have noticed that a student
    will pass two, and then the third will be a nonfiction with proper nouns (places
    that may not be familiar to your region), and this slows the student down
    considerably. So, they drop 30 wpm and are back in the monitoring program. Very few
    ever get out it seems! It is a money maker for DIBELS - not free!!! Most schools buy
    the booklets - who has time to put them together, costs a dollar for each student to
    be entered....and the list goes on.

    We have been in Scientifically Based Reading Program, used with fidelity...and our
    kids ORF is still poor when they get to third and fourth grade. What is the plan?
    Administration doesn't have one...just keep giving these tests. WASTE of time!

    I am a Title 1 teacher who already assesses these students with very similar items.
    Letter naming and sounds. Now, I can make it become a fluency by timing these. Not
    rocket science!! But, I am not interested in speed, I am interested in all of the
    letters and wanting to know if they have the sounds for them. Nonsense words....I
    have tests for this...can tell if they can apply vowel sounds, long or short,
    without all of the documentation of DIBELS. I need to work with the students on
    applying the rules and giving knowledge of those rules to them, not more tests!

    Many READING COACHES and ADMINISTRATORS say this is great....because it is a nice
    printout of students, but the teacher who works with them and gives them and records
    them feels differently. TIME is needed, we test weekly and use up more instruction
    time that those students needed in the first place. The teacher knows that without
    these tests.

    It seems we are hearing the little beepers in our school quite frequently, all of
    the kids know that someone is getting tested. My greatest question then is...what
    are we doing for these kids besides diagnosing them. We run out of time!

    THANKS for your ear! I don't think that these tests are as valuable as everyone
    thinks, because most of us had something similar. We have targetted most of the kdis
    already and now we need to test more. Teachers informal observations have already
    caught this, and you were gearing your instruction already with your spare minutes.
    Has it helped our kids become better readers....I wonder.... I would love to hear
    what the interventions are that are used for those who are monitored and not making
    it, and when are these interventions implemented? We can't fit it into the regular
    schedule, so I wonder what are some plans out there?


    On 12/03/06, Jane Bain wrote:
    > We are looking at a variety of assessments in our board, which is in
    > Ontario,Canada. I've been reading a lot abour DIBELS. We are looking at the
    > reading readiness skills assessments. (Some of the other tests--retell and oral
    > reading would be better tested by PM Benchmarks or DRA.) No one seems to say that
    > the test doesn't measure what it sets out to measure; Letter naming, Initial sound
    > fluency,Phonemic Segmentation Fluency, Nonsense Word Fluency etc. I guess what I'm
    > wondering is if it is the teaching which is following the assessment which is the
    > problem. Are teachers teaching to the sub-tests or are they using the theory of
    > the gradual release of responsibility and basing their programs and instruction on
    > best practice models ( Four Blocks, Fountas and Pinnell) and using the gradual
    > release of reponsibility to teach the process of reading?
    > I'm very interested in hearing the perspective of teachers who are using DIBELS.
    > Thank you.
    >
    >
    > On 11/22/06, Ms. Altman wrote:
    >> I loathe Dibels. In one of my graduate courses for special education I had a
    >> professor that went on and one about great DIBELS is...The only thing great about
    >> DIBELS is that it is free.
    >>
    >>
    >> On 9/23/06, Kathy wrote:
    >>> YIKES!!! It frightens me that an experience educator thinks that DIBELS is
    >>> measuring the reading process. The reading process is a complex process that
    >>> we have only begun to understand. I am concerned about U.S. Department of
    >>> Education findings that many programs and assessments have been seen as "Not
    >>> scientifically researched" based on a panel of people who were more interested
    >>> in profit than helping our children learn to read in the most effective and
    >>> efficient way. There is information that DIBELS does not do as much as it
    >>> claims. I urge any teachers!!! Stand up, be courageous. We are the ones in the
    >>> trenches. We are the experts. Why do we continually let others tell us what
    >>> is best for our children? We know them best. I hope that we have moved beyond
    >>> the whole language vs. phonics war. When our gut tells us that something isn't
    >>> quite right we need to shout loudly and clearly. We should be the strongest
    >>> advocates for our children.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> On 9/03/06, Ginny wrote:
    >>>> We have been trained to believe that DIBELS is an effective way to assess
    >>>> student reading skills. I have been reading "The Truth About DIBELS" by
    >>>> Kenneth S. Goodman and am concerned that I have been only told one side of
    >>>> the story by my state leaders and U of O. I don't want to implement DIBELS
    >>>> without being very sure that the time, money to be spent equals valid
    >>>> information. I am also concerned about the affects Dr. Goodman state about
    >>>> how the timed testing is not valid in 5-7 year olds and the stress it places
    >>>> on the children.
    >>>>
    >>>> I would appreciate anyone who has information that will help me make a
    >>>> determination. Is this a "Whole Language" vs. "Phonics" war where we are
    >>>> talking about personal opinons or is it a real.
    >>>>
    >>>> Thank your for your thoughts.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> On 4/04/06, Margaret Turner wrote:
    >>>>> On 3/04/06, Kathy wrote:
    >>>>>> I am an administrator looking at better ways to diagnose reading
    >>>>>> difficulties for our special education children in the elementary
    >>>>>> grades. We currently use observation survy in the early grades and
    >>>>>> frankly, it is hit and miss for children thereafter relative to specific
    >>>>>> skills. This leaves the inclusion class teachers struggling to teach
    >>>>>> without a clear understanding of what needs to be supported, etc.
    >>>>>> Anything you can tell me would help inform our team - thanks!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> On 1/11/06, Kim wrote:
    >>>>>>> Maureen, We are also considering DIBELS as an assessment tool. I
    >>>>>>> would be very interested in reading your paper. Please e-mail it to
    >>>>>>> me.
    >>>>>>> Thanks,
    >>>>>>> Kim
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On 12/08/05, Maureen wrote:
    >>>>>>>> On 7/14/05, Cheryle wrote:
    >>>>>>>>> On 7/14/05, A wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>> I am looking at DIBELS as a potential tool to use in my first
    >>>>>>>>>> grade classroom after attending a fluency PD this summer. The
    >>>>>>>>>> teacher leading the session, and several of the teachers in the
    >>>>>>>>>> session really liked this assessment, which is required for the
    >>>>>>>>>> Kentucky Reading First schools. (My school is not a Reading
    >>>>>>>>>> First school.) We are required to administer the DRA, and I
    >>>>>>>>>> think I will try DIBELS this year too. It is available free of
    >>>>>>>>>> charge from the DIBELS website.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> I am interested in any feedback from folks who have used this
    >>>>>>>>>> assessment - pro and con. Please don't spare me your real
    >>>>>>>>>> opinion just because I am thinking of using it. I really want to
    >>>>>>>>>> know.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> This past year was the first that we used DIBELS in our district.
    >>>>>>>>> It has been mandated by the state. It can be time consuming,
    >>>>>>>>> especially in the grades K-2. Third grade only has the oral reading
    >>>>>>>>> fluency test. I used it to help me pinpoint areas where particular
    >>>>>>>>> children needed help. However, my co=workers and I found faults
    >>>>>>>>> with it as well. I would recommend going to the University of
    >>>>>>>>> Oregon website (Official DIBELS Homepage.
    >>>>>>>>> http://dibels.uoregon.edu/) and read the technical papers listed
    >>>>>>>>> there, especially Technical Report #10 by Good and Kaminsky.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> My curiosity was aroused when we found that students followed a
    >>>>>>>>> pattern of pass-fail-pass-fail and so on. TR #10 explains how the
    >>>>>>>>> creators of DIBELS leveled the passages. It makes no sense to me.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> For one of my Master's classes I wrote a paper on my findings in my
    >>>>>>>>> classroom. I would be glad to email it to you if you are interested
    >>>>>>>>> in reading it.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> I am studying for the National Boards. I would love to read the
    >>>>>>> paper
    >>>>>>>> you wrote on it. Thanks,
    >>>>>>>> Maureen
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Hi, I am Margaret Turner. I'm a reading coach in Florida. We've been
    >>>>> using the DIBELS Assessment for about 5 years now. We find it to be
    >>>>> invaluable in predicting success and failure in reading. What we had to
    >>>>> learn was that the dibels is assessing the reading process itself. The
    >>>>> reading process develops the way the dibels assesses; phonemic and
    >>>>> phonological awareness,the alphabetic principle, phonics, and finally oral
    >>>>> reading fluency. If we can help the children develop the skills in each
    >>>>> one of those categories, the goal of reading fluency will happen. From
    >>>>> there, our real goal, comprehension will occur. It's a process. The
    >>>>> children can't skip any or the processes and be successful readers. The
    >>>>> DIBELS allows us to see where they are in the process and address that
    >>>>> area of weakness. Usually, it works very well.
    >>>>> Sometimes we have students that can't seem to get it no matter what you do.
    >>>>> I'm looking for an assessment for those students.

     
     

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