SUBSCRIBE \| PREFERENCES	MY LINKS:	chat center	STATES \| GRADE LEVEL \| SUBJECTS

Building Blocks Literacy Chatboard

top posts | all posts | submit post

Make Building Blocks Literacy a Favorite!

We also recommend...

Language Arts Center

Building Blocks Literacy Lesson Plans

Building Blocks Literacy Mailring

Lesson Plans
• Math	• Language Arts
• Science	• Social Studies
• Music	• Art & Crafts
• Phys Ed	• Other

Teacher Chatboards

• latest posts

• by subject

• by grade level

• by state

• all chatboards

• language arts center

• technology center

• foreign language center

• hot topics

• interest groups

Teaching Jobs

Classroom Projects

Teacher Mailrings

Teachers.Net Gazette

• Current Issue

• Harry Wong Column

• Teacher Classified Ads

• classroom printables

Site Map

skip topic

Print | Share | Report Post

Re: Dibels reading assess.
Posted by Kristin on 1/30/07

On 1/01/07, plcarlson wrote:
> Our school has been using it now for four years. We were a Reading First school. It
> may help to identify kids in grades K and 1, but informally the teacher has already
> figured out those kids with difficulty. This test is very time consuming for the
> classroom teacher. She is told it is only a minute, the administration is told that
> too....Well, when you have maybe 10 kids to monitor, possibly weekly, it becomes
> much more valuable time than realized. It takes from set up to completion close to
> 20 min. That is instruction time wasted, because now what are the interventions and
> more time then is needed for those students. We have found that it is nice
> documentation for SBIT or RTI, but that can come from any Title 1 or simple
> assessments as well. Now, the teacher will be asked to punch the scores in on the
> internet site as well, another thing to take more time.
>
> The readability of these passages varies greatly. We have noticed that a student
> will pass two, and then the third will be a nonfiction with proper nouns (places
> that may not be familiar to your region), and this slows the student down
> considerably. So, they drop 30 wpm and are back in the monitoring program. Very few
> ever get out it seems! It is a money maker for DIBELS - not free!!! Most schools buy
> the booklets - who has time to put them together, costs a dollar for each student to
> be entered....and the list goes on.
>
> We have been in Scientifically Based Reading Program, used with fidelity...and our
> kids ORF is still poor when they get to third and fourth grade. What is the plan?
> Administration doesn't have one...just keep giving these tests. WASTE of time!
>
> I am a Title 1 teacher who already assesses these students with very similar items.
> Letter naming and sounds. Now, I can make it become a fluency by timing these. Not
> rocket science!! But, I am not interested in speed, I am interested in all of the
> letters and wanting to know if they have the sounds for them. Nonsense words....I
> have tests for this...can tell if they can apply vowel sounds, long or short,
> without all of the documentation of DIBELS. I need to work with the students on
> applying the rules and giving knowledge of those rules to them, not more tests!
>
> Many READING COACHES and ADMINISTRATORS say this is great....because it is a nice
> printout of students, but the teacher who works with them and gives them and records
> them feels differently. TIME is needed, we test weekly and use up more instruction
> time that those students needed in the first place. The teacher knows that without
> these tests.
>
> It seems we are hearing the little beepers in our school quite frequently, all of
> the kids know that someone is getting tested. My greatest question then is...what
> are we doing for these kids besides diagnosing them. We run out of time!
>
> THANKS for your ear! I don't think that these tests are as valuable as everyone
> thinks, because most of us had something similar. We have targetted most of the kdis
> already and now we need to test more. Teachers informal observations have already
> caught this, and you were gearing your instruction already with your spare minutes.
> Has it helped our kids become better readers....I wonder.... I would love to hear
> what the interventions are that are used for those who are monitored and not making
> it, and when are these interventions implemented? We can't fit it into the regular
> schedule, so I wonder what are some plans out there?
>
>
> On 12/03/06, Jane Bain wrote:
>> We are looking at a variety of assessments in our board, which is in
>> Ontario,Canada. I've been reading a lot abour DIBELS. We are looking at the
>> reading readiness skills assessments. (Some of the other tests--retell and oral
>> reading would be better tested by PM Benchmarks or DRA.) No one seems to say that
>> the test doesn't measure what it sets out to measure; Letter naming, Initial sound
>> fluency,Phonemic Segmentation Fluency, Nonsense Word Fluency etc. I guess what I'm
>> wondering is if it is the teaching which is following the assessment which is the
>> problem. Are teachers teaching to the sub-tests or are they using the theory of
>> the gradual release of responsibility and basing their programs and instruction on
>> best practice models ( Four Blocks, Fountas and Pinnell) and using the gradual
>> release of reponsibility to teach the process of reading?
>> I'm very interested in hearing the perspective of teachers who are using DIBELS.
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>> On 11/22/06, Ms. Altman wrote:
>>> I loathe Dibels. In one of my graduate courses for special education I had a
>>> professor that went on and one about great DIBELS is...The only thing great about
>>> DIBELS is that it is free.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/23/06, Kathy wrote:
>>>> YIKES!!! It frightens me that an experience educator thinks that DIBELS is
>>>> measuring the reading process. The reading process is a complex process that
>>>> we have only begun to understand. I am concerned about U.S. Department of
>>>> Education findings that many programs and assessments have been seen as "Not
>>>> scientifically researched" based on a panel of people who were more interested
>>>> in profit than helping our children learn to read in the most effective and
>>>> efficient way. There is information that DIBELS does not do as much as it
>>>> claims. I urge any teachers!!! Stand up, be courageous. We are the ones in the
>>>> trenches. We are the experts. Why do we continually let others tell us what
>>>> is best for our children? We know them best. I hope that we have moved beyond
>>>> the whole language vs. phonics war. When our gut tells us that something isn't
>>>> quite right we need to shout loudly and clearly. We should be the strongest
>>>> advocates for our children.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/03/06, Ginny wrote:
>>>>> We have been trained to believe that DIBELS is an effective way to assess
>>>>> student reading skills. I have been reading "The Truth About DIBELS" by
>>>>> Kenneth S. Goodman and am concerned that I have been only told one side of
>>>>> the story by my state leaders and U of O. I don't want to implement DIBELS
>>>>> without being very sure that the time, money to be spent equals valid
>>>>> information. I am also concerned about the affects Dr. Goodman state about
>>>>> how the timed testing is not valid in 5-7 year olds and the stress it places
>>>>> on the children.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would appreciate anyone who has information that will help me make a
>>>>> determination. Is this a "Whole Language" vs. "Phonics" war where we are
>>>>> talking about personal opinons or is it a real.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank your for your thoughts.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/04/06, Margaret Turner wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/04/06, Kathy wrote:
>>>>>>> I am an administrator looking at better ways to diagnose reading
>>>>>>> difficulties for our special education children in the elementary
>>>>>>> grades. We currently use observation survy in the early grades and
>>>>>>> frankly, it is hit and miss for children thereafter relative to specific
>>>>>>> skills. This leaves the inclusion class teachers struggling to teach
>>>>>>> without a clear understanding of what needs to be supported, etc.
>>>>>>> Anything you can tell me would help inform our team - thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/11/06, Kim wrote:
>>>>>>>> Maureen, We are also considering DIBELS as an assessment tool. I
>>>>>>>> would be very interested in reading your paper. Please e-mail it to
>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Kim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/08/05, Maureen wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/14/05, Cheryle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/14/05, A wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I am looking at DIBELS as a potential tool to use in my first
>>>>>>>>>>> grade classroom after attending a fluency PD this summer. The
>>>>>>>>>>> teacher leading the session, and several of the teachers in the
>>>>>>>>>>> session really liked this assessment, which is required for the
>>>>>>>>>>> Kentucky Reading First schools. (My school is not a Reading
>>>>>>>>>>> First school.) We are required to administer the DRA, and I
>>>>>>>>>>> think I will try DIBELS this year too. It is available free of
>>>>>>>>>>> charge from the DIBELS website.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in any feedback from folks who have used this
>>>>>>>>>>> assessment - pro and con. Please don't spare me your real
>>>>>>>>>>> opinion just because I am thinking of using it. I really want to
>>>>>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This past year was the first that we used DIBELS in our district.
>>>>>>>>>> It has been mandated by the state. It can be time consuming,
>>>>>>>>>> especially in the grades K-2. Third grade only has the oral reading
>>>>>>>>>> fluency test. I used it to help me pinpoint areas where particular
>>>>>>>>>> children needed help. However, my co=workers and I found faults
>>>>>>>>>> with it as well. I would recommend going to the University of
>>>>>>>>>> Oregon website (Official DIBELS Homepage.
>>>>>>>>>> http://dibels.uoregon.edu/) and read the technical papers listed
>>>>>>>>>> there, especially Technical Report #10 by Good and Kaminsky.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My curiosity was aroused when we found that students followed a
>>>>>>>>>> pattern of pass-fail-pass-fail and so on. TR #10 explains how the
>>>>>>>>>> creators of DIBELS leveled the passages. It makes no sense to me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For one of my Master's classes I wrote a paper on my findings in my
>>>>>>>>>> classroom. I would be glad to email it to you if you are interested
>>>>>>>>>> in reading it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am studying for the National Boards. I would love to read the
>>>>>>>> paper
>>>>>>>>> you wrote on it. Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Maureen
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, I am Margaret Turner. I'm a reading coach in Florida. We've been
>>>>>> using the DIBELS Assessment for about 5 years now. We find it to be
>>>>>> invaluable in predicting success and failure in reading. What we had to
>>>>>> learn was that the dibels is assessing the reading process itself. The
>>>>>> reading process develops the way the dibels assesses; phonemic and
>>>>>> phonological awareness,the alphabetic principle, phonics, and finally oral
>>>>>> reading fluency. If we can help the children develop the skills in each
>>>>>> one of those categories, the goal of reading fluency will happen. From
>>>>>> there, our real goal, comprehension will occur. It's a process. The
>>>>>> children can't skip any or the processes and be successful readers. The
>>>>>> DIBELS allows us to see where they are in the process and address that
>>>>>> area of weakness. Usually, it works very well.
>>>>>> Sometimes we have students that can't seem to get it no matter what you do.
>>>>>> I'm looking for an assessment for those students.

Hi, I'm Kristin, an experienced Kindergarten teacher in CA. We have been using
DIBELS at our school for 2 years now. Our principal is up in the air about having us
administer the nonsense fluency test for Kinder. I am against it because they are just
learning to read. Don't want to intimidate the children that are still challenged by
beginning reading skills. My principal challenged me (in a fun way)to find research
against the nonsense test. She says she has documentation supporting it. I am a
follower of Fountas and Pinelle and have a very successful reading program with
interventions in my own classroom. Anyone know of any research in my favor??? I would
really appreciate it. I think admin like DIBELS because it is data based and easy for
them to decipher. Personally I think it is a huge waste of $.