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On 7/17/14, Jo wrote:
> The arguments on this thread are interesting.
>
> 1. A great teacher is irreplaceable. False.
> This would mean there was only one great teacher. So, if anyone
> insists on supporting this argument, which poster here is that
> great teacher and what other ones are sub-par?
>
> 2. Schools don't have a bottom line to worry about. False.
> Schools definitely do have bottom lines. Their bottom lines are
> probably even more solid than a business. There is only so much
> money allotted, and part of the job of the administrator is to
> adhere to the budget. Public schools are not designed to make
> money. They aren't manufacturers of material goods, but they do
> have a bottom line.

The term "bottom line" is only used for business, not non-profits
like school districts. You should know that, so don't make a false
equivalency where none exists, and don't twist my words. That
means funds are guaranteed, so there is NO bottom line to worry
about. That is why they are "solid," to use your words. A business
HAS to worry about the bottom line because if there is no profit,
they can't stay in business. Principals are allowed to do whatever
the hell they want, when they want to do it because if a district is
sued, the district doesn't go bankrupt. Businesses in general are
better places to work because they are more careful in how they
treat their employees, at least if they are moderate-to-large-size
businesses, for they are afraid of negative publicity. School
districts couldn't care less, which is why there are so many rotten
principals out there. That is why they are not closely supervised,
which in turn is why so many "great" teachers are kicked to the curb
every single year.

>
> On 7/17/14, anon wrote:
>> PsyGuy is an ignoramus. Schools aren't businesses. Because
>> there is no bottom line to worry about, these principals aren't
>> supervised at all and do pretty much what they want. The worse
>> a principal is, the better he or she does. Most of them are
>> utter crap and got where they are because of connections.
>> Talent has utterly nothing to do with being moved up the career
>> ladder.
>>
>> They can literally do absolutely NOTHING, be completely
>> incompetent, and they will be backed to the hilt by school
>> district central offices. Teachers are easily ruined. They are
>> professionals, not Mickey D workers, and should have rights.
>> However, they do not.
>>
>>
>> On 7/16/14, re: psy Guy's comment wrote:
>>> PsyGuy favors comparing education to business, which is a
>>> fallacy of argument. Schools aren't a business. It is true
>>> that we have a boss, called a principal, and generally
>>> speaking, if your boss tells you to do something you do it or
>>> you risk insubordination which can get you fired--that part
>>> holds true. We are more like an architect, you don't hire
>>> and then try to have an incompetent tell him how to design a
>>> house. The part that does not hold water is that teachers
>>> (when compared to the other world) are more like
>>> subcontractors. We are put on a contract to deliver a
>>> service, and when a principal asks a teacher to do something
>>> as unethical as changing a grade, the case can be made that
>>> the teacher's reputation and career could be affected by going
>>> along with something depending on the circumstances. There
>>> was, in fact, a case where a principal directed a clan of
>>> teachers to cheat on state testing by changing answers. The
>>> teachers went along with it, and ended up facing criminal
>>> charges. We don't work on a factory line, as PsyGuy would
>>> describe. We are essentially free agents that contract with
>>> the schools. For me, I maintain high ethics at all times. We
>>> have to defend our teaching to the community at large and in
>>> the end my job is on the line if my scores aren't strong.
>>> Most of the principals I have worked with don't know how to
>>> lead in the area of instructional design and many don't seem
>>> to know much about classroom management either.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/16/14, PsyGuy wrote:
>>>> No business owners are the only ones unsupervised.
>>>> Principals are very much supervised by both the board and
>>>> the sup.
>>>>
>>>> Sure teachers careers can be ruined from evil principals,
>>>> but thats no more or less true than in any profession or
>>>> business. You can have an evil VP that ruins your banking
>>>> career just as easily.
>>>>
>>>> Well if your supervisor tells you to change the grade, Id
>>>> change the grade. Why anyone would think you could tell
>>>> your supervisor no, and keep your job baffles me. Theres a
>>>> reason its called a supervisor subordinate relationship.
>>>> If im going to lose my job its going to be over money or
>>>> seex, not one students grade.
>>>>
>>>> On 7/16/14, anon wrote:
>>>>> Thank you for a great post. It is the truth. PsyGuy
>>>>> should just shut up on threads having to do with the
>>>>> abuse of teachers
>>>> because
>>>>> it is clear he knows nothing of what he is talking about.
>>>>>
>>>>> Principals are the worst supervisors in the economy for
>>>>> the simple reason they aren't supervised. It's rare these
>>>>> days to find one who is any good at all. Teachers can and
>>>>> do get their lives destroyed just on a principal's whim,
>>>>> and anybody who denies this reality is either a liar or
>>>>> an idiot.
>>>>>
>>>>> All it takes to get a career ruined is to refuse to
>>>>> change a grade when a principal orders it because of a
>>>>> parent's complaint. All it takes is to get sick and use
>>>>> FMLA to have a career ruined. It's all about covering for
>>>>> a principal's or other administrator's worthless ass no
>>>>> matter what the consequences to others.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/16/14, Empathy and Sympathy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PsyGuy? Are you a naturally self-superior, didactic,
>>>>>> person, or do you have to work at it? Bottom line is,
>>>>>> are you for real? Or just putting everyone on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What in the hell makes you think you know a single thing
>>>>>> about what other people are experiencing and the
>>>>>> motivations behind how certain administrators operate
>>>>>> and why they do as they do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure, you are right in that the job of a principal is to
>>>>>> manage the school and the teachers. And that it is the
>>>>>> job of the teacher to adapt to a new style of management
>>>>>> if required.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But if you think you can make a silly blanket statement
>>>>>> that all administrators are propelled by nothing more
>>>>>> than a desire to better their school with nothing
>>>>>> personal involved when it comes to teachers, then you
>>>>>> must live on Planet Altair-4.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whether it fits your fanciful vision or not, there are
>>>>>> some principals out there who are mean, stupid,
>>>>>> vindictive, tyrannical, and have no conscience at all
>>>>>> when it comes to destroying teaching careers. And if
>>>>>> they have it in for you, then no amount of attempted
>>>>>> adaptation on the part of the teacher is going to change
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One bit of proof is that more and more teachers are
>>>>>> finally relating it, and many others are leaving in
>>>>>> droves (as another poster said), because their physical
>>>>>> and mental health, and even sense of personal dignity,
>>>>>> cannot forever withstand the assaults .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When was the last time *you* (if you ever were at all)
>>>>>> in a classroom? What are *your* credentials to presume
>>>>>> to lecture REAL teachers who know first hand of what
>>>>>> they speak of, as to what they need to know?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your post is about the most insensitively, boorish, that
>>>>>> I have read it a long time. I don't mean with me...I am
>>>>>> tough enough to handle it, but with Mini. Again, when
>>>>>> was the last time you ever bent over a desk to help a
>>>>>> student or contribute to the teaching realm. Far as that
>>>>>> goes, when was the last time you ever bent over for work
>>>>>> at all, unless it was to kiss some C-Scope executives
>>>>>> patootie (yeah, I have read you before on this one).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ordinarily, I wouldn't make comments like this to
>>>>>> anyone. But your post was beyond the pale and shows an
>>>>>> appalling ignorance of the realities of teaching today,
>>>>>> and what more and more educators are forced to endure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/15/14, PsyGuy wrote:
>>>>>>> Well they arent dictators, they are your supervisor,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> their job
>>>>>>> is to manage you and the school. Thats means that
>>>>>>> things dont always go your way, and maybe your no
>>>>>>> longer a good fit for the school and its leadership.
>>>>>>> Its your job to be flexible
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> adapt to your schools leadership and culture, not the
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>> way
>>>>>>> around. Being a good fit for 15 years doesnt mean you
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> keep repeating that behavior indefinitely. Professional
>>>>>>> good professional adapt to change. Including changes in
>>>>>>> management. I really dont know why people can think not
>>>>>>> getting along with your boss is going to somehow be
>>>>>>> okay.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/15/14, mini wrote:
>>>>>>>> Thank you so much everyone for your support. I will be
>>>>>>>> substitute teaching. Like some of you are. Because we
>>>>>>>> need to make a living. I can never get past this
>>>>>>>> because employers look at your last job, even if you
>>>>>>>> worked for them before with a great record. I am
>>>>>>>> leaving TX because I can't afford to live here
>>>>>>>> anymore. I will have to go and live with family. That
>>>>>>>> is why I named the good guys and bad guys in my
>>>>>>>> situation. For Psyguy yes this is a job, but in the
>>>>>>>> private sector I at least would have 6 months to prove
>>>>>>>> myself. I didn't get that in a 4 month contract. So, I
>>>>>>>> can only assume it was a hack job. Why,I don't know?
>>>>>>>> Like I said before my direct supervisor and co-
>>>>>>>> workers were very kind, they showed me the ropes, they
>>>>>>>> answered my questions. I got along with them. Thank
>>>>>>>> you everyone. I know I have lost. I just had to say
>>>>>>>> something to someone. Thank you! Thank you!
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