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Already living abroad?

Jul 9, 2016

What happens if someone already lives abroad (Europe, near an Air Force Base, no military affiliation, not already being provided housing/utilities) and then is offered a job in a different part of the world (Pacific). The job offer was based on a OCONUS EAS application, using US contact information and address. Is it possible to fly to the new job from my current location abroad? What about shipping house hold goods from my current location? Then if/when I am offered a job, could I use the base to schedule travel and/or medical clearance?

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haha There is a lot to consider and unfortunately (or possibly fortunately in some cases) these things often seem to come down to how one or two specific HR people are interpreting your individual circumstances.

In this case, it seems that if you stick with a HoR in the US then your being overseas becomes basically a non-factor since you are no...See MoreThere is a lot to consider and unfortunately (or possibly fortunately in some cases) these things often seem to come down to how one or two specific HR people are interpreting your individual circumstances.

In this case, it seems that if you stick with a HoR in the US then your being overseas becomes basically a non-factor since you are not trying to say that you were recruited from overseas by your current employer with expat type benefits as an incentive to relocate (and not costing the gov't any extra money for your relocation etc).

In thinking about our situation, we did pretty much (or could have) everything required while overseas through a private hospital, the nearest consulate etc. Fingerprints were the main thing we didn't do since we were coming back to the US for vacation anyway and didn't have to research the possibilities where we were.

I would contact the nearest US Embassy/Consulate and ask them if they provide that services or can recommend some place that does in your current location. Normally I don't think you would have access to the base without orders already but maybe there is a way around that.

it On 7/10/16, hoping wrote: > Thank you guys so much for this clear info. Unfortunately I > don't have any benefit package in Western Europe. None. > Too bad, I wouldn't mind if this was my home of record. So I > will make sure to fly and ship from the US. > > But what about the things which need to be completed before > travel orders, such as physical and fingerprints. I just don't > know if I can fly back to the states to complete this. I would > want official travel orders before I fly back to the US and > before I ship off my household from Europe, and it looks like I > would need to complete the physical and fingerprints prior to > getting official travel orders. So I either complete the physical > in a foreign country (or on base if possible??) and complete > the fingerprints on base, or quickly pack up a house in a week > and fly back to the US with the hopes that a TO will become > official. > > And then, what about background check. Won't they know I > am abroad based on the school I listed in the application being > abroad. > > > On 7/09/16, haha wrote: >> Lots of good information here already. I was hired while >> overseas (with no base in the country). HR would have used > my >> location for travel and shipping purposes but then that would >> have been my HoR for RAT, return, etc and we had no > intention >> of returning there any time soon (if ever). >> >> So we shipped our 2 cubic meters of belongings to our new >> location and traveled back to the states (with our then >> current employers paying a significant portion as part of our >> contract) and used that location as our HoR for all DoDDS >> purposes. >> >> If you are overseas after having been recruited by your >> current employer from the states, then you would likely have >> some shipping/travel benefits in place when your service > ends >> with them (which should offset the costs of returning to the >> states to establish your HoR/shipping belongings to your > new >> duty location). >> >> If you do not currently have overseas recruitment incentive >> type benefits from your current employer then you are > risking >> being considered a local hire by HR at some point if you do >> not work everything out of the states. >> >> On 7/09/16, reality sheriff wrote: >>> If you have an in-writing-employer-paid benefit for return >> to >>> your permanent home in the US for yourselves and your >>> HHG and possibly even your vehicle, then such a >>> contractual entitlement becomes the basis for DoDDS to >>> (almost certainly) consider you to be a CONUS-hired >>> employee should you be offered a DoDDS position >>> anywhere, whether that's a mere mile from your current >>> location or across the world. At that point, your gov't >> paid >>> transporation & shipment of yourselves and stuff from >>> where-ever, including your current overseas location, is >>> definitely do-able, just with IMPORTANT limits, and yes, >>> you will be able to avail of the local overseas base's >>> travel/transportation offices to arrange these, *BUT* the >>> limits are: the gov't's total dollar commitment for your & >>> family's transportation costs and your shipping costs is >>> limited to no more than what the gov't would have paid had >>> the gov't arranged/paid for you/family/stuff *from* your US >>> HOR. If the actual costs to travel & ship from the overseas >>> locaiton are more than that constructed-calculated- >>> authorized limit, then you are responsible for paying the >>> difference, which can be painful when overseas shipping >>> costs are typically in the $2 to $5 per pound range. If the >>> actual costs turn out to be less than what Uncle Sam would >>> have paid from your US OR, then this is a no-harm, no-foul >>> situation, but you *won't* be paid any "savings" if those >>> actual costs are less than what the gov't would have paid, >>> as if I needed to say that ;) >>> >>> If you do *not* have a current, in-writing Return-to-US >>> employer-paid entitlement, then the only safe way for you >>> to ensure being treated as a CONUS-Hire in DoDDS, i.e. >>> w/ LQA, w/ paid Transportation, w/ paid Shipping, w/ paid >>> RAT, etc. etc., is to return to your US home>on your own >>> dime< in order to begin your travel & shipping from there >> to >>> your DoDDS assignment. VERY IMPORTANT HEADS UP: >>> if you instead begin your travel and shipments from your >>> overseas location (which is what you seem to be >>> contemplating) then you *will* be a Local Hire once at that >>> DoDDS destination, and Local Hire status will be true >>> whether the DoDDS destination is a mere mile from your >>> current location or across the globe or anywhere in >>> between. Over many years, many have tried to do what >>> you apparently contemplate doing; all of them have been >>> *profoundly* disappointed to learn that they are Local >> Hires >>> w/ no CONUS-Hire benefits once at the destination - >>> should you be hired by DoDDS, I strongly recommned you >>> avoid that shock by "biting the bullet" to get yourselves & >>> stuff back to US HOR to begin travel and shipping from >>> there. >>> >>> On 7/09/16, hoping wrote: >>>> What happens if someone already lives abroad (Europe, >>> near >>>> an Air Force Base, no military affiliation, not already >>>> being provided housing/utilities) and then is offered a >> job >>>> in a different part of the world (Pacific). The job offer >>>> was based on a OCONUS EAS application, using US >>> contact >>>> information and address. Is it possible to fly to the new >>>> job from my current location abroad? What about >>> shipping >>>> house hold goods from my current location? Then >>> if/when I >>>> am offered a job, could I use the base to schedule travel >>>> and/or medical clearance?

Jul 10, 2016

For pre-appointment physical, plan to use local host nation providers, or better: a US provider when you return; w/ no connection to military, you won't be allowed usage of any military base's medical providers for pre-appointment med screenings. For fingerprints, you might be able to talk the local base's Law Enforcement folks to do these for you ...See MoreFor pre-appointment physical, plan to use local host nation providers, or better: a US provider when you return; w/ no connection to military, you won't be allowed usage of any military base's medical providers for pre-appointment med screenings. For fingerprints, you might be able to talk the local base's Law Enforcement folks to do these for you when you show them your TO letter, but if not possible there, then another possibility you could try is a US consulate or US embassy, otherwise, do these in the US and any willling place that has the approved fed fingerprints form.

Glad to hear you intend to fly to, and ship from, the US should you be hired by DoDDS. You are also smart to be thinking on all apsects of your overseas situation, e.g. your background investigation vis-a-vis your HOR and its effects on the determination of your actual benefits, especially for the biggie, game-changing Living Quarters Allowance.

Some observations and experiences re Home of Record issues affecting recruited federal civilians prospectively being assigned overseas: HOR is ~generally~ the place where you are residing when recruited and, in general, is near impossible to ever get changed once it's set and formal regulations and MANY legal cases through the years will govern/restrict what evidence is acceptable at changing the HOR once it's been set. That said, HOR is individually evaluated based on all the relevant facts presented by the person being recruited, especially if/when one is trying to substantiate a claim that HOR should be somewhere other than the recruitment location. If HOR is claimed to not be at the recruitment location, then the evidence considered includes: What are the reasons for living overseas? Is presence there of a permanent nature? Or clearly/provably temporary? During the time of being overseas, is there clear/documentable evidence of having maintained official connections to the claimed place of HOR in the US? (e.g. own real estate, file & pay Fed/State/Local/Property taxes, voter registration, drivers license, bank accounts, immediate family there, etc., etc.) Is there a voluntarily established residence in the overseas area? (e.g. property ownership). Are there intentionally made long-standing relationships in the overseas area? (e.g. establishing formal foreign-resident status, have immdiate family members of host nation, house/property, job, etc.)

Consider the above HOR impacts and compare to your actual situation. It may be easy for you to establish a US HOR despite being overseas now. OTOH, it may be difficult to impossible to do so. Only you can decide if an overseas HOR w/ its attendant denial of LQA and the other CONUS-Hire allowances/incentives is an acceptable situation to you, or not.

On 7/10/16, hoping wrote: > Thank you guys so much for this clear info. Unfortunately I > don't have any benefit package in Western Europe. None. > Too bad, I wouldn't mind if this was my home of record. So I > will make sure to fly and ship from the US. > > But what about the things which need to be completed before > travel orders, such as physical and fingerprints. I just don't > know if I can fly back to the states to complete this. I would > want official travel orders before I fly back to the US and > before I ship off my household from Europe, and it looks like I > would need to complete the physical and fingerprints prior to > getting official travel orders. So I either complete the physical > in a foreign country (or on base if possible??) and complete > the fingerprints on base, or quickly pack up a house in a week > and fly back to the US with the hopes that a TO will become > official. > > And then, what about background check. Won't they know I > am abroad based on the school I listed in the application being > abroad. > > > On 7/09/16, haha wrote: >> Lots of good information here already. I was hired while >> overseas (with no base in the country). HR would have used > my >> location for travel and shipping purposes but then that would >> have been my HoR for RAT, return, etc and we had no > intention >> of returning there any time soon (if ever). >> >> So we shipped our 2 cubic meters of belongings to our new >> location and traveled back to the states (with our then >> current employers paying a significant portion as part of our >> contract) and used that location as our HoR for all DoDDS >> purposes. >> >> If you are overseas after having been recruited by your >> current employer from the states, then you would likely have >> some shipping/travel benefits in place when your service > ends >> with them (which should offset the costs of returning to the >> states to establish your HoR/shipping belongings to your > new >> duty location). >> >> If you do not currently have overseas recruitment incentive >> type benefits from your current employer then you are > risking >> being considered a local hire by HR at some point if you do >> not work everything out of the states. >> >> On 7/09/16, reality sheriff wrote: >>> If you have an in-writing-employer-paid benefit for return >> to >>> your permanent home in the US for yourselves and your >>> HHG and possibly even your vehicle, then such a >>> contractual entitlement becomes the basis for DoDDS to >>> (almost certainly) consider you to be a CONUS-hired >>> employee should you be offered a DoDDS position >>> anywhere, whether that's a mere mile from your current >>> location or across the world. At that point, your gov't >> paid >>> transporation & shipment of yourselves and stuff from >>> where-ever, including your current overseas location, is >>> definitely do-able, just with IMPORTANT limits, and yes, >>> you will be able to avail of the local overseas base's >>> travel/transportation offices to arrange these, *BUT* the >>> limits are: the gov't's total dollar commitment for your & >>> family's transportation costs and your shipping costs is >>> limited to no more than what the gov't would have paid had >>> the gov't arranged/paid for you/family/stuff *from* your US >>> HOR. If the actual costs to travel & ship from the overseas >>> locaiton are more than that constructed-calculated- >>> authorized limit, then you are responsible for paying the >>> difference, which can be painful when overseas shipping >>> costs are typically in the $2 to $5 per pound range. If the >>> actual costs turn out to be less than what Uncle Sam would >>> have paid from your US OR, then this is a no-harm, no-foul >>> situation, but you *won't* be paid any "savings" if those >>> actual costs are less than what the gov't would have paid, >>> as if I needed to say that ;) >>> >>> If you do *not* have a current, in-writing Return-to-US >>> employer-paid entitlement, then the only safe way for you >>> to ensure being treated as a CONUS-Hire in DoDDS, i.e. >>> w/ LQA, w/ paid Transportation, w/ paid Shipping, w/ paid >>> RAT, etc. etc., is to return to your US home>on your own >>> dime< in order to begin your travel & shipping from there >> to >>> your DoDDS assignment. VERY IMPORTANT HEADS UP: >>> if you instead begin your travel and shipments from your >>> overseas location (which is what you seem to be >>> contemplating) then you *will* be a Local Hire once at that >>> DoDDS destination, and Local Hire status will be true >>> whether the DoDDS destination is a mere mile from your >>> current location or across the globe or anywhere in >>> between. Over many years, many have tried to do what >>> you apparently contemplate doing; all of them have been >>> *profoundly* disappointed to learn that they are Local >> Hires >>> w/ no CONUS-Hire benefits once at the destination - >>> should you be hired by DoDDS, I strongly recommned you >>> avoid that shock by "biting the bullet" to get yourselves & >>> stuff back to US HOR to begin travel and shipping from >>> there. >>> >>> On 7/09/16, hoping wrote: >>>> What happens if someone already lives abroad (Europe, >>> near >>>> an Air Force Base, no military affiliation, not already >>>> being provided housing/utilities) and then is offered a >> job >>>> in a different part of the world (Pacific). The job offer >>>> was based on a OCONUS EAS application, using US >>> contact >>>> information and address. Is it possible to fly to the new >>>> job from my current location abroad? What about >>> shipping >>>> house hold goods from my current location? Then >>> if/when I >>>> am offered a job, could I use the base to schedule travel >>>> and/or medical clearance?

Jul 10, 2016

hoping Thank you so much. This has been valuable information. At what point would I know if I would be offered LQA and other benefits. With the tentative offer, with the official offer, or a while later? My worry is that I would accept a position, move somewhere (where housing could be potentially and significantly more expensive), and THEN find out that ...See MoreThank you so much. This has been valuable information. At what point would I know if I would be offered LQA and other benefits. With the tentative offer, with the official offer, or a while later? My worry is that I would accept a position, move somewhere (where housing could be potentially and significantly more expensive), and THEN find out that I don't qualify for LQA.

On 7/10/16, reality sheriff wrote: > For pre-appointment physical, plan to use local host nation > providers, or better: a US provider when you return; w/ no > connection to military, you won't be allowed usage of any military > base's medical providers for pre-appointment med screenings. > For fingerprints, you might be able to talk the local base's Law > Enforcement folks to do these for you when you show them your > TO letter, but if not possible there, then another possibility you > could try is a US consulate or US embassy, otherwise, do these > in the US and any willling place that has the approved fed > fingerprints form. > > Glad to hear you intend to fly to, and ship from, the US should > you be hired by DoDDS. You are also smart to be thinking on all > apsects of your overseas situation, e.g. your background > investigation vis-a-vis your HOR and its effects on the > determination of your actual benefits, especially for the biggie, > game-changing Living Quarters Allowance. > > Some observations and experiences re Home of Record issues > affecting recruited federal civilians prospectively being assigned > overseas: HOR is ~generally~ the place where you are residing > when recruited and, in general, is near impossible to ever get > changed once it's set and formal regulations and MANY legal > cases through the years will govern/restrict what evidence is > acceptable at changing the HOR once it's been set. That said, > HOR is individually evaluated based on all the relevant facts > presented by the person being recruited, especially if/when one > is trying to substantiate a claim that HOR should be somewhere > other than the recruitment location. If HOR is claimed to not be at > the recruitment location, then the evidence considered includes: > What are the reasons for living overseas? Is presence there of a > permanent nature? Or clearly/provably temporary? During the > time of being overseas, is there clear/documentable evidence of > having maintained official connections to the claimed place of > HOR in the US? (e.g. own real estate, file & pay > Fed/State/Local/Property taxes, voter registration, drivers license, > bank accounts, immediate family there, etc., etc.) Is there a > voluntarily established residence in the overseas area? (e.g. > property ownership). Are there intentionally made long-standing > relationships in the overseas area? (e.g. establishing formal > foreign-resident status, have immdiate family members of host > nation, house/property, job, etc.) > > Consider the above HOR impacts and compare to your actual > situation. It may be easy for you to establish a US HOR despite > being overseas now. OTOH, it may be difficult to impossible to do > so. Only you can decide if an overseas HOR w/ its attendant > denial of LQA and the other CONUS-Hire allowances/incentives > is an acceptable situation to you, or not. > > On 7/10/16, hoping wrote: >> Thank you guys so much for this clear info. Unfortunately I >> don't have any benefit package in Western Europe. None. >> Too bad, I wouldn't mind if this was my home of record. So I >> will make sure to fly and ship from the US. >> >> But what about the things which need to be completed before >> travel orders, such as physical and fingerprints. I just don't >> know if I can fly back to the states to complete this. I would >> want official travel orders before I fly back to the US and >> before I ship off my household from Europe, and it looks like I >> would need to complete the physical and fingerprints prior to >> getting official travel orders. So I either complete the physical >> in a foreign country (or on base if possible??) and complete >> the fingerprints on base, or quickly pack up a house in a week >> and fly back to the US with the hopes that a TO will become >> official. >> >> And then, what about background check. Won't they know I >> am abroad based on the school I listed in the application being >> abroad. >> >> >> On 7/09/16, haha wrote: >>> Lots of good information here already. I was hired while >>> overseas (with no base in the country). HR would have used >> my >>> location for travel and shipping purposes but then that would >>> have been my HoR for RAT, return, etc and we had no >> intention >>> of returning there any time soon (if ever). >>> >>> So we shipped our 2 cubic meters of belongings to our new >>> location and traveled back to the states (with our then >>> current employers paying a significant portion as part of our >>> contract) and used that location as our HoR for all DoDDS >>> purposes. >>> >>> If you are overseas after having been recruited by your >>> current employer from the states, then you would likely have >>> some shipping/travel benefits in place when your service >> ends >>> with them (which should offset the costs of returning to the >>> states to establish your HoR/shipping belongings to your >> new >>> duty location). >>> >>> If you do not currently have overseas recruitment incentive >>> type benefits from your current employer then you are >> risking >>> being considered a local hire by HR at some point if you do >>> not work everything out of the states. >>> >>> On 7/09/16, reality sheriff wrote: >>>> If you have an in-writing-employer-paid benefit for return >>> to >>>> your permanent home in the US for yourselves and your >>>> HHG and possibly even your vehicle, then such a >>>> contractual entitlement becomes the basis for DoDDS to >>>> (almost certainly) consider you to be a CONUS-hired >>>> employee should you be offered a DoDDS position >>>> anywhere, whether that's a mere mile from your current >>>> location or across the world. At that point, your gov't >>> paid >>>> transporation & shipment of yourselves and stuff from >>>> where-ever, including your current overseas location, is >>>> definitely do-able, just with IMPORTANT limits, and yes, >>>> you will be able to avail of the local overseas base's >>>> travel/transportation offices to arrange these, *BUT* the >>>> limits are: the gov't's total dollar commitment for your & >>>> family's transportation costs and your shipping costs is >>>> limited to no more than what the gov't would have paid had >>>> the gov't arranged/paid for you/family/stuff *from* your US >>>> HOR. If the actual costs to travel & ship from the overseas >>>> locaiton are more than that constructed-calculated- >>>> authorized limit, then you are responsible for paying the >>>> difference, which can be painful when overseas shipping >>>> costs are typically in the $2 to $5 per pound range. If the >>>> actual costs turn out to be less than what Uncle Sam would >>>> have paid from your US OR, then this is a no-harm, no-foul >>>> situation, but you *won't* be paid any "savings" if those >>>> actual costs are less than what the gov't would have paid, >>>> as if I needed to say that ;) >>>> >>>> If you do *not* have a current, in-writing Return-to-US >>>> employer-paid entitlement, then the only safe way for you >>>> to ensure being treated as a CONUS-Hire in DoDDS, i.e. >>>> w/ LQA, w/ paid Transportation, w/ paid Shipping, w/ paid >>>> RAT, etc. etc., is to return to your US home>on your own >>>> dime< in order to begin your travel & shipping from there >>> to >>>> your DoDDS assignment. VERY IMPORTANT HEADS UP: >>>> if you instead begin your travel and shipments from your >>>> overseas location (which is what you seem to be >>>> contemplating) then you *will* be a Local Hire once at that >>>> DoDDS destination, and Local Hire status will be true >>>> whether the DoDDS destination is a mere mile from your >>>> current location or across the globe or anywhere in >>>> between. Over many years, many have tried to do what >>>> you apparently contemplate doing; all of them have been >>>> *profoundly* disappointed to learn that they are Local >>> Hires >>>> w/ no CONUS-Hire benefits once at the destination - >>>> should you be hired by DoDDS, I strongly recommned you >>>> avoid that shock by "biting the bullet" to get yourselves & >>>> stuff back to US HOR to begin travel and shipping from >>>> there. >>>> >>>> On 7/09/16, hoping wrote: >>>>> What happens if someone already lives abroad (Europe, >>>> near >>>>> an Air Force Base, no military affiliation, not already >>>>> being provided housing/utilities) and then is offered a >>> job >>>>> in a different part of the world (Pacific). The job offer >>>>> was based on a OCONUS EAS application, using US >>>> contact >>>>> information and address. Is it possible to fly to the new >>>>> job from my current location abroad? What about >>>> shipping >>>>> house hold goods from my current location? Then >>>> if/when I >>>>> am offered a job, could I use the base to schedule travel >>>>> and/or medical clearance?

Jul 10, 2016

haha When you receive your TO, it will include all of the benefits that they are offering.

Generally speaking that should mean that you are good, but this IS the gov't we are talking about. The same gov't that loves to send out debt letters 10 years after you have left service (I just got one from 3 years ago for $3.76).

So, there is a...See MoreWhen you receive your TO, it will include all of the benefits that they are offering.

Generally speaking that should mean that you are good, but this IS the gov't we are talking about. The same gov't that loves to send out debt letters 10 years after you have left service (I just got one from 3 years ago for $3.76).

So, there is always a chance that it could come back to bite you just as there is always a chance for any of us that something could could suddenly come back and be a problem for us.

On 7/10/16, hoping wrote: > Thank you so much. This has been valuable information. At what > point would I know if I would be offered LQA and other benefits. > With the tentative offer, with the official offer, or a while later? > My worry is that I would accept a position, move somewhere (where > housing could be potentially and significantly more expensive), and > THEN find out that I don't qualify for LQA. > > On 7/10/16, reality sheriff wrote: >> For pre-appointment physical, plan to use local host nation >> providers, or better: a US provider when you return; w/ no >> connection to military, you won't be allowed usage of any military >> base's medical providers for pre-appointment med screenings. >> For fingerprints, you might be able to talk the local base's Law >> Enforcement folks to do these for you when you show them your >> TO letter, but if not possible there, then another possibility you >> could try is a US consulate or US embassy, otherwise, do these >> in the US and any willling place that has the approved fed >> fingerprints form. >> >> Glad to hear you intend to fly to, and ship from, the US should >> you be hired by DoDDS. You are also smart to be thinking on all >> apsects of your overseas situation, e.g. your background >> investigation vis-a-vis your HOR and its effects on the >> determination of your actual benefits, especially for the biggie, >> game-changing Living Quarters Allowance. >> >> Some observations and experiences re Home of Record issues >> affecting recruited federal civilians prospectively being assigned >> overseas: HOR is ~generally~ the place where you are residing >> when recruited and, in general, is near impossible to ever get >> changed once it's set and formal regulations and MANY legal >> cases through the years will govern/restrict what evidence is >> acceptable at changing the HOR once it's been set. That said, >> HOR is individually evaluated based on all the relevant facts >> presented by the person being recruited, especially if/when one >> is trying to substantiate a claim that HOR should be somewhere >> other than the recruitment location. If HOR is claimed to not be at >> the recruitment location, then the evidence considered includes: >> What are the reasons for living overseas? Is presence there of a >> permanent nature? Or clearly/provably temporary? During the >> time of being overseas, is there clear/documentable evidence of >> having maintained official connections to the claimed place of >> HOR in the US? (e.g. own real estate, file & pay >> Fed/State/Local/Property taxes, voter registration, drivers > license, >> bank accounts, immediate family there, etc., etc.) Is there a >> voluntarily established residence in the overseas area? (e.g. >> property ownership). Are there intentionally made long-standing >> relationships in the overseas area? (e.g. establishing formal >> foreign-resident status, have immdiate family members of host >> nation, house/property, job, etc.) >> >> Consider the above HOR impacts and compare to your actual >> situation. It may be easy for you to establish a US HOR despite >> being overseas now. OTOH, it may be difficult to impossible to do >> so. Only you can decide if an overseas HOR w/ its attendant >> denial of LQA and the other CONUS-Hire allowances/incentives >> is an acceptable situation to you, or not. >> >> On 7/10/16, hoping wrote: >>> Thank you guys so much for this clear info. Unfortunately I >>> don't have any benefit package in Western Europe. None. >>> Too bad, I wouldn't mind if this was my home of record. So I >>> will make sure to fly and ship from the US. >>> >>> But what about the things which need to be completed before >>> travel orders, such as physical and fingerprints. I just don't >>> know if I can fly back to the states to complete this. I would >>> want official travel orders before I fly back to the US and >>> before I ship off my household from Europe, and it looks like I >>> would need to complete the physical and fingerprints prior to >>> getting official travel orders. So I either complete the physical >>> in a foreign country (or on base if possible??) and complete >>> the fingerprints on base, or quickly pack up a house in a week >>> and fly back to the US with the hopes that a TO will become >>> official. >>> >>> And then, what about background check. Won't they know I >>> am abroad based on the school I listed in the application being >>> abroad. >>> >>> >>> On 7/09/16, haha wrote: >>>> Lots of good information here already. I was hired while >>>> overseas (with no base in the country). HR would have used >>> my >>>> location for travel and shipping purposes but then that would >>>> have been my HoR for RAT, return, etc and we had no >>> intention >>>> of returning there any time soon (if ever). >>>> >>>> So we shipped our 2 cubic meters of belongings to our new >>>> location and traveled back to the states (with our then >>>> current employers paying a significant portion as part of our >>>> contract) and used that location as our HoR for all DoDDS >>>> purposes. >>>> >>>> If you are overseas after having been recruited by your >>>> current employer from the states, then you would likely have >>>> some shipping/travel benefits in place when your service >>> ends >>>> with them (which should offset the costs of returning to the >>>> states to establish your HoR/shipping belongings to your >>> new >>>> duty location). >>>> >>>> If you do not currently have overseas recruitment incentive >>>> type benefits from your current employer then you are >>> risking >>>> being considered a local hire by HR at some point if you do >>>> not work everything out of the states. >>>> >>>> On 7/09/16, reality sheriff wrote: >>>>> If you have an in-writing-employer-paid benefit for return >>>> to >>>>> your permanent home in the US for yourselves and your >>>>> HHG and possibly even your vehicle, then such a >>>>> contractual entitlement becomes the basis for DoDDS to >>>>> (almost certainly) consider you to be a CONUS-hired >>>>> employee should you be offered a DoDDS position >>>>> anywhere, whether that's a mere mile from your current >>>>> location or across the world. At that point, your gov't >>>> paid >>>>> transporation & shipment of yourselves and stuff from >>>>> where-ever, including your current overseas location, is >>>>> definitely do-able, just with IMPORTANT limits, and yes, >>>>> you will be able to avail of the local overseas base's >>>>> travel/transportation offices to arrange these, *BUT* the >>>>> limits are: the gov't's total dollar commitment for your & >>>>> family's transportation costs and your shipping costs is >>>>> limited to no more than what the gov't would have paid had >>>>> the gov't arranged/paid for you/family/stuff *from* your US >>>>> HOR. If the actual costs to travel & ship from the overseas >>>>> locaiton are more than that constructed-calculated- >>>>> authorized limit, then you are responsible for paying the >>>>> difference, which can be painful when overseas shipping >>>>> costs are typically in the $2 to $5 per pound range. If the >>>>> actual costs turn out to be less than what Uncle Sam would >>>>> have paid from your US OR, then this is a no-harm, no-foul >>>>> situation, but you *won't* be paid any "savings" if those >>>>> actual costs are less than what the gov't would have paid, >>>>> as if I needed to say that ;) >>>>> >>>>> If you do *not* have a current, in-writing Return-to-US >>>>> employer-paid entitlement, then the only safe way for you >>>>> to ensure being treated as a CONUS-Hire in DoDDS, i.e. >>>>> w/ LQA, w/ paid Transportation, w/ paid Shipping, w/ paid >>>>> RAT, etc. etc., is to return to your US home>on your own >>>>> dime< in order to begin your travel & shipping from there >>>> to >>>>> your DoDDS assignment. VERY IMPORTANT HEADS UP: >>>>> if you instead begin your travel and shipments from your >>>>> overseas location (which is what you seem to be >>>>> contemplating) then you *will* be a Local Hire once at that >>>>> DoDDS destination, and Local Hire status will be true >>>>> whether the DoDDS destination is a mere mile from your >>>>> current location or across the globe or anywhere in >>>>> between. Over many years, many have tried to do what >>>>> you apparently contemplate doing; all of them have been >>>>> *profoundly* disappointed to learn that they are Local >>>> Hires >>>>> w/ no CONUS-Hire benefits once at the destination - >>>>> should you be hired by DoDDS, I strongly recommned you >>>>> avoid that shock by "biting the bullet" to get yourselves & >>>>> stuff back to US HOR to begin travel and shipping from >>>>> there. >>>>> >>>>> On 7/09/16, hoping wrote: >>>>>> What happens if someone already lives abroad (Europe, >>>>> near >>>>>> an Air Force Base, no military affiliation, not already >>>>>> being provided housing/utilities) and then is offered a >>>> job >>>>>> in a different part of the world (Pacific). The job offer >>>>>> was based on a OCONUS EAS application, using US >>>>> contact >>>>>> information and address. Is it possible to fly to the new >>>>>> job from my current location abroad? What about >>>>> shipping >>>>>> house hold goods from my current location? Then >>>>> if/when I >>>>>> am offered a job, could I use the base to schedule travel >>>>>> and/or medical clearance?

Jul 10, 2016

Because I know none of *your* answers to the HOR-determination questions I wrote earlier, there is, unfortunately, no definitive date nor in-processing event that I can provide to you. However, *you* should be able to reasonably predict now how this HOR- determination will eventually come down based on *your* answers to all those guidance questions...See MoreBecause I know none of *your* answers to the HOR-determination questions I wrote earlier, there is, unfortunately, no definitive date nor in-processing event that I can provide to you. However, *you* should be able to reasonably predict now how this HOR- determination will eventually come down based on *your* answers to all those guidance questions.

It has been a "profound disappointment" reality for others in overseas-recruited situations, like yours, to intially be granted the full range of recruitmenmt incentives that accord to CONUS-Hired applicants, only to have that intial decision reversed, sometimes YEARS after arrival, which can mean many thousands, tens of thousands, EVEN HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars of LQA/etc. being "clawed back" by Uncle Sam.

If a DoDDS teaching job is your goal, the earliest hiring you'd be aiming for would be for SY17-18 (I assume), so, you might consider eliminating ALL doubt about having a US HOR by moving back now/asap so that you will have ALL the provable evidence required. Admittedly, this would be a HUGE step for anyone to take, especially considering that getting hired by DoDDS is a very long-odds event; it's the proverbial "golden ring" event for thousands of like-minded public school teachers applying to DoDDS, and very few, realistically speaking, will ever get on a referral List, much less snag an interview, much less get that goden ring job offer.

On 7/10/16, hoping wrote: > Thank you so much. This has been valuable information. At what > point would I know if I would be offered LQA and other benefits. > With the tentative offer, with the official offer, or a while later? > My worry is that I would accept a position, move somewhere (where > housing could be potentially and significantly more expensive), and > THEN find out that I don't qualify for LQA. > > On 7/10/16, reality sheriff wrote: >> For pre-appointment physical, plan to use local host nation >> providers, or better: a US provider when you return; w/ no >> connection to military, you won't be allowed usage of any military >> base's medical providers for pre-appointment med screenings. >> For fingerprints, you might be able to talk the local base's Law >> Enforcement folks to do these for you when you show them your >> TO letter, but if not possible there, then another possibility you >> could try is a US consulate or US embassy, otherwise, do these >> in the US and any willling place that has the approved fed >> fingerprints form. >> >> Glad to hear you intend to fly to, and ship from, the US should >> you be hired by DoDDS. You are also smart to be thinking on all >> apsects of your overseas situation, e.g. your background >> investigation vis-a-vis your HOR and its effects on the >> determination of your actual benefits, especially for the biggie, >> game-changing Living Quarters Allowance. >> >> Some observations and experiences re Home of Record issues >> affecting recruited federal civilians prospectively being assigned >> overseas: HOR is ~generally~ the place where you are residing >> when recruited and, in general, is near impossible to ever get >> changed once it's set and formal regulations and MANY legal >> cases through the years will govern/restrict what evidence is >> acceptable at changing the HOR once it's been set. That said, >> HOR is individually evaluated based on all the relevant facts >> presented by the person being recruited, especially if/when one >> is trying to substantiate a claim that HOR should be somewhere >> other than the recruitment location. If HOR is claimed to not be at >> the recruitment location, then the evidence considered includes: >> What are the reasons for living overseas? Is presence there of a >> permanent nature? Or clearly/provably temporary? During the >> time of being overseas, is there clear/documentable evidence of >> having maintained official connections to the claimed place of >> HOR in the US? (e.g. own real estate, file & pay >> Fed/State/Local/Property taxes, voter registration, drivers > license, >> bank accounts, immediate family there, etc., etc.) Is there a >> voluntarily established residence in the overseas area? (e.g. >> property ownership). Are there intentionally made long- standing >> relationships in the overseas area? (e.g. establishing formal >> foreign-resident status, have immdiate family members of host >> nation, house/property, job, etc.) >> >> Consider the above HOR impacts and compare to your actual >> situation. It may be easy for you to establish a US HOR despite >> being overseas now. OTOH, it may be difficult to impossible to do >> so. Only you can decide if an overseas HOR w/ its attendant >> denial of LQA and the other CONUS-Hire allowances/incentives >> is an acceptable situation to you, or not. >> >> On 7/10/16, hoping wrote: >>> Thank you guys so much for this clear info. Unfortunately I >>> don't have any benefit package in Western Europe. None. >>> Too bad, I wouldn't mind if this was my home of record. So I >>> will make sure to fly and ship from the US. >>> >>> But what about the things which need to be completed before >>> travel orders, such as physical and fingerprints. I just don't >>> know if I can fly back to the states to complete this. I would >>> want official travel orders before I fly back to the US and >>> before I ship off my household from Europe, and it looks like I >>> would need to complete the physical and fingerprints prior to >>> getting official travel orders. So I either complete the physical >>> in a foreign country (or on base if possible??) and complete >>> the fingerprints on base, or quickly pack up a house in a week >>> and fly back to the US with the hopes that a TO will become >>> official. >>> >>> And then, what about background check. Won't they know I >>> am abroad based on the school I listed in the application being >>> abroad. >>> >>> >>> On 7/09/16, haha wrote: >>>> Lots of good information here already. I was hired while >>>> overseas (with no base in the country). HR would have used >>> my >>>> location for travel and shipping purposes but then that would >>>> have been my HoR for RAT, return, etc and we had no >>> intention >>>> of returning there any time soon (if ever). >>>> >>>> So we shipped our 2 cubic meters of belongings to our new >>>> location and traveled back to the states (with our then >>>> current employers paying a significant portion as part of our >>>> contract) and used that location as our HoR for all DoDDS >>>> purposes. >>>> >>>> If you are overseas after having been recruited by your >>>> current employer from the states, then you would likely have >>>> some shipping/travel benefits in place when your service >>> ends >>>> with them (which should offset the costs of returning to the >>>> states to establish your HoR/shipping belongings to your >>> new >>>> duty location). >>>> >>>> If you do not currently have overseas recruitment incentive >>>> type benefits from your current employer then you are >>> risking >>>> being considered a local hire by HR at some point if you do >>>> not work everything out of the states. >>>> >>>> On 7/09/16, reality sheriff wrote: >>>>> If you have an in-writing-employer-paid benefit for return >>>> to >>>>> your permanent home in the US for yourselves and your >>>>> HHG and possibly even your vehicle, then such a >>>>> contractual entitlement becomes the basis for DoDDS to >>>>> (almost certainly) consider you to be a CONUS-hired >>>>> employee should you be offered a DoDDS position >>>>> anywhere, whether that's a mere mile from your current >>>>> location or across the world. At that point, your gov't >>>> paid >>>>> transporation & shipment of yourselves and stuff from >>>>> where-ever, including your current overseas location, is >>>>> definitely do-able, just with IMPORTANT limits, and yes, >>>>> you will be able to avail of the local overseas base's >>>>> travel/transportation offices to arrange these, *BUT* the >>>>> limits are: the gov't's total dollar commitment for your & >>>>> family's transportation costs and your shipping costs is >>>>> limited to no more than what the gov't would have paid had >>>>> the gov't arranged/paid for you/family/stuff *from* your US >>>>> HOR. If the actual costs to travel & ship from the overseas >>>>> locaiton are more than that constructed-calculated- >>>>> authorized limit, then you are responsible for paying the >>>>> difference, which can be painful when overseas shipping >>>>> costs are typically in the $2 to $5 per pound range. If the >>>>> actual costs turn out to be less than what Uncle Sam would >>>>> have paid from your US OR, then this is a no-harm, no-foul >>>>> situation, but you *won't* be paid any "savings" if those >>>>> actual costs are less than what the gov't would have paid, >>>>> as if I needed to say that ;) >>>>> >>>>> If you do *not* have a current, in-writing Return-to-US >>>>> employer-paid entitlement, then the only safe way for you >>>>> to ensure being treated as a CONUS-Hire in DoDDS, i.e. >>>>> w/ LQA, w/ paid Transportation, w/ paid Shipping, w/ paid >>>>> RAT, etc. etc., is to return to your US home>on your own >>>>> dime< in order to begin your travel & shipping from there >>>> to >>>>> your DoDDS assignment. VERY IMPORTANT HEADS UP: >>>>> if you instead begin your travel and shipments from your >>>>> overseas location (which is what you seem to be >>>>> contemplating) then you *will* be a Local Hire once at that >>>>> DoDDS destination, and Local Hire status will be true >>>>> whether the DoDDS destination is a mere mile from your >>>>> current location or across the globe or anywhere in >>>>> between. Over many years, many have tried to do what >>>>> you apparently contemplate doing; all of them have been >>>>> *profoundly* disappointed to learn that they are Local >>>> Hires >>>>> w/ no CONUS-Hire benefits once at the destination - >>>>> should you be hired by DoDDS, I strongly recommned you >>>>> avoid that shock by "biting the bullet" to get yourselves & >>>>> stuff back to US HOR to begin travel and shipping from >>>>> there. >>>>> >>>>> On 7/09/16, hoping wrote: >>>>>> What happens if someone already lives abroad (Europe, >>>>> near >>>>>> an Air Force Base, no military affiliation, not already >>>>>> being provided housing/utilities) and then is offered a >>>> job >>>>>> in a different part of the world (Pacific). The job offer >>>>>> was based on a OCONUS EAS application, using US >>>>> contact >>>>>> information and address. Is it possible to fly to the new >>>>>> job from my current location abroad? What about >>>>> shipping >>>>>> house hold goods from my current location? Then >>>>> if/when I >>>>>> am offered a job, could I use the base to schedule travel >>>>>> and/or medical clearance?

Jul 10, 2016

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