Need Research to Backup All-day Pull-out

by Mary T

Sep 3, 2009

Hello GATE community! I'm torn between going with a weekly all-day pull-out (grade 5) with high verbal, high math kids combined or pulling them several times a week for smaller chunks of time to focus only on their strength area. I've done both; scores were generally more impressive with subject only. But does anyone know of any data that supports either approach? Unfortunately, grade or subject acceleration isn't an option. Need to hear back quick. Thank you!

Mary

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cavey I can see > that Rogers believes certain things work better than others, but I > wish she had revealed what she's basing that on. (She maybe does. > I'll have to look it up.)

Rogers' whole book is based on data, not her feelings.

Sep 11, 2009

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Mary T Hi, Cavey. And you're basing that on....? ;)

On 9/11/09, cavey wrote: > > Rogers' whole book is based on data, not her feelings.

Sep 11, 2009

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GT Teacher It's an interesting world we do live in and increasingly that part of it that is our country is certainly trying to measure performance - particularly so in education. I think our current measures for both student and teacher performance are flawed but that's another matter.

Your post said that scores were generally more impressive when pu...See MoreIt's an interesting world we do live in and increasingly that part of it that is our country is certainly trying to measure performance - particularly so in education. I think our current measures for both student and teacher performance are flawed but that's another matter.

Your post said that scores were generally more impressive when pulled for subject and you've gathered data over three years. Even in a world focused on performance measurement, a three year study with generally more impressive scores in one venue understandably leaves you looking for more data.

I actually had GATE parents refusing to allow their children to sit for similar tests - they thought it a misuse of time that could be otherwise devoted to instruction. We even have a small cadre of GATE parents here who refuse to allow their children to sit for SATs and prefer instead to apply to the schools that no longer require them. But all that's another matter too. > > So if I understand the matter at hand, it intrigues me. Your data shows generally or hands down that one day a week makes a difference in their scores? How much of a difference? My interest would not be what they do that day but that a day a week could raise or ruin the scores of GATE children. On what test? On all sections? I assume these are state tests.

Unless I misunderstand, you're pulling from a reg. classroom? Or from their GATE class for further GATE instruction? > > I've looked at the data on my students and can see that hands down, > they scored worse with me after a year of all-day pull-out than they > did when I pulled them for only their subject and didn't put them in > one large group of reading-gifted, math-gifted, and nonverbal-gifted. > To ignore that because they had fun in my class isn't really helping > them develop their gifts. It's not helping them with their > social-emotional needs when they feel bad after scoring lower than > they had expected; it's not demonstrating to anyone that they've > advanced in math or reading; it's leaving them possibly unprepared > for the next grade's expectations; and it will not foster in them a > sense of "I'm a winner and good at tests," which is a crucial > component when it comes time for scholarship-tied tests such as the > PSAT and the SAT. I want my children to have fun, to be > well-rounded, but I also want them to perform at the levels I know > they can perform at, and if it means I have to forsake my preferred > way of teaching, then, as a conscientious teacher, I have to do that. > > Looking at test scores can be depressing. But to opt out, which is > what I'd do if I discounted the data and went on my merry way with > what I "feel" works, really isn't serving anyone but me. > > Thank you for your question; it's one I obviously feel strongly > about! ;) > > MT > > On 9/09/09, GT Teacher wrote: >> >> >> The ERIC data base is always good to check. But what is it >> you're trying to achieve? Why are we concerned with test scores >> for GATE students? They most often do fairly well on the tests - >> why are we directing testing support to GATE students?? >>

Sep 11, 2009

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Juliana On 9/10/09, Mary T wrote: > GT Teacher: > > We live in a world that measures us by our performance. My students > are measured that way, I'm measured that way, and I want my > daughter's school to care about helping her score as high as possible > on high stakes tests. > > I've looked at the data on my students and can see t...See More

Sep 11, 2009

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Mary T On 9/11/09, Juliana wrote:

> > Okay, what kinds of differences in scores are we talking about? And what > kind of test? What kind of scores do you assume they should be getting, > and what kind of scores are they getting? Is it possible that you're > seeing score drops that look significant on paper, but that could really &...See More

Sep 16, 2009

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