Gifted Checklist Identifiers Don't Work

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Gifted Checklist Identifiers Don't Work

by Heather

Apr 24, 2011

This is an interesting site about gifted checklists. My district started using these checklists a few years ago. We haven't identified more students than we used to, but now we are testing a lot more kids. I found this article interesting.

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Bill T 6 NC A gifted abilities scale is used as one of the criteria for identifying gifted in my current school system.

I can see both plus and minus in that approach. While it might identify some who might otherwise slip through the "cracks" because they do not test well on end of grade tests (another criteria), it is very easy for a teacher to be p...See More

Jul 3, 2011

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Ben Yes, I think the article is partially right. IQ should be the determining factor. That way, you would have far fewer kids that didn't belong in a gifted program.

On 7/03/11, Bill T 6 NC wrote: > > A gifted abilities scale is used as one of the criteria for > identifying gifted in my current school system. > > I can see both...See More

Jul 3, 2011

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Richard We don't even test. It's required by law, but all we do is use the gifted checklist. Our gifted program doesn't work because of this. We have so many "qualified" students, but none of them have even been tested. The gifted teachers are frustrated, because they have so many students who don't belong in their classes. They seem to get the nice kids, ...See MoreWe don't even test. It's required by law, but all we do is use the gifted checklist. Our gifted program doesn't work because of this. We have so many "qualified" students, but none of them have even been tested. The gifted teachers are frustrated, because they have so many students who don't belong in their classes. They seem to get the nice kids, the hard workers, and the students that frustrate administration. The result is a system that identifies students who don't belong in the gifted program. We need to test for IQ, but we haven't done that in over two years! I think there is a lot of merit to this article.

On 7/03/11, Ben wrote: > Yes, I think the article is partially right. IQ should be the > determining factor. That way, you would have far fewer kids that > didn't belong in a gifted program. > > On 7/03/11, Bill T 6 NC wrote: >> >> A gifted abilities scale is used as one of the criteria for >> identifying gifted in my current school system. >> >> I can see both plus and minus in that approach. While it might >> identify some who might otherwise slip through the "cracks" because >> they do not test well on end of grade tests (another criteria), it >> is very easy for a teacher to be pressured by a parent into giving >> inflated scores on the scale. >> >> My school system WAY over identifies students for our gifted >> program. I had two blocks (two classes) of "gifted" students this >> past year. I would say that less than a third of them were >> actually anywhere close to gifted. Most were just above average >> students with pushy parents who have political pull. I found that >> out, rather quickly, when I ratched up the challenge level of the >> work we did in class (the level, not the amount) and many did not >> or would not meet the challenge. >> >> The pushy parents went amuck, of course. I guess I might too, when >> reality smacked me in the face like that. >> >> "My child always got A's." >> >> I was the target of several complaints and false accusations. Oh, it >> got interesting, particularly with our weak kneed, new principal >> who just came from an elementary school and was absolutely >> overlwhelmed by the task of running a middle school. But I stayed >> the course. I didn't maintain as high of standards as I should and >> for that, I blame me. But the cream did rise to the top, finally. >> >> So while I see both merit and shortcoming in the use of checklists, >> it would not make me unhappy if we didn't use them anymore

Jul 19, 2011

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GT1276 What you use to identify should be reflective of the program itself. If we are identifying for mathematical giftedness for example, then using a language based assessment would not be appropriate. THe problem with most school identification systems is that they are trying to fit something that is multi-faceted and complex inside a neat little box. ...See MoreWhat you use to identify should be reflective of the program itself. If we are identifying for mathematical giftedness for example, then using a language based assessment would not be appropriate. THe problem with most school identification systems is that they are trying to fit something that is multi-faceted and complex inside a neat little box. If I learned anything in my grad work, it is that there is absolutely no ONE way to identify or define who gifted. It is a debate that has and continues to rage on in the field since its inception. The IQ breakdown is arbitrary.. gifted vs. profoundly gifted? All that really tells us is that two very bright children process information at different speed and in different ways. The reliance on IQ is too significant and quite frankly is dependent on student performance - not ability to perform. What about the underachiever who has no interest in performing on some "dumb" test. And not all characteristics listed on these checklists are present with gifted children. Many gifted students simply do not have the opportunity in the confines of most public schools around the country to display their giftedness. (Thank you high stakes testing...) So, what would I suggest: In addition to selecting ones with high IQ, test scores, grades, etc., I would say parent input (be careful - they are after all bias - but they know their kids best), teacher input, self nomination, performance tasks that show creative/critical thinking (observing students when they are faced with a given problem), intake interviews, product assessments. Basically, the goal of education needs to be that every student is taught at their level - a level that cannot be determined by testing or checklist alone.

On 7/03/11, Ben wrote: > Yes, I think the article is partially right. IQ should be the > determining factor. That way, you would have far fewer kids that > didn't belong in a gifted program. > > On 7/03/11, Bill T 6 NC wrote: >> >> A gifted abilities scale is used as one of the criteria for >> identifying gifted in my current school system. >> >> I can see both plus and minus in that approach. While it might >> identify some who might otherwise slip through the "cracks" because >> they do not test well on end of grade tests (another criteria), it >> is very easy for a teacher to be pressured by a parent into giving >> inflated scores on the scale. >> >> My school system WAY over identifies students for our gifted >> program. I had two blocks (two classes) of "gifted" students this >> past year. I would say that less than a third of them were >> actually anywhere close to gifted. Most were just above average >> students with pushy parents who have political pull. I found that >> out, rather quickly, when I ratched up the challenge level of the >> work we did in class (the level, not the amount) and many did not >> or would not meet the challenge. >> >> The pushy parents went amuck, of course. I guess I might too, when >> reality smacked me in the face like that. >> >> "My child always got A's." >> >> I was the target of several complaints and false accusations. Oh, it >> got interesting, particularly with our weak kneed, new principal >> who just came from an elementary school and was absolutely >> overlwhelmed by the task of running a middle school. But I stayed >> the course. I didn't maintain as high of standards as I should and >> for that, I blame me. But the cream did rise to the top, finally. >> >> So while I see both merit and shortcoming in the use of checklists, >> it would not make me unhappy if we didn't use them anymore

Aug 8, 2011

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Paige I see your point about testing, and I feel the same way about testing. It seems that we're testing students too often. Still, I agree with the article. IQ is the only logical way to really identify children. When they're not identified with an IQ test, you have problems. Here are my concerns:

1. Yes, hard workers can succeed in gifted clas...See MoreI see your point about testing, and I feel the same way about testing. It seems that we're testing students too often. Still, I agree with the article. IQ is the only logical way to really identify children. When they're not identified with an IQ test, you have problems. Here are my concerns:

1. Yes, hard workers can succeed in gifted classrooms, but do they belong there? My experience has been that hard workers burn out, because they work themselves to the point that they don't want to do well. Are gifted classes supposed to challenge students who need an extra challenge, or are they supposed to stretch gifted children? It seems that a true gifted class should be different. An acclerated class might just also be different. Isn't there a difference between accelerated and gifted?

2. There is a difference between gifted and profoundly gifted. I have many gifted-qualified students in my class, but I only have one profoundly gifted student. The instruction is different, because the abilities are CONSIDERABLY different.

3. IQ tests can be given each year. Yes, they are a picture of one day's performance, but they are also the only accurate predictor of ability. I wish I had a dollar for every student who was placed in my class because a parent, teacher, or administrator thought he/she was a genius. I've had two students placed directly from a gifted class into special education, because they were placed in the wrong program.

4. Underachievers who are gifted belong in gifted classes! They're the students who need it the most! There's a reason they are not achieving. They're bored, uninterested, etc.

5. Checklists don't work. The article is right. Almost anybody can qualify gifted with the right gifted checklist. Try it. If that list doesn't work, Google it again, and you're sure to find another list that might be more beneficial. Get a checklist and see if your lowest students qualify in many, many areas. I did, and I was surprised by the results.

Gifted instruction should be reserved for truly gifted students, not hard workers. Accelerated instruction can be for gifted students and/or hard working students. I think we really need to show a difference between the two programs.

In a perfect world, one would look at many, many factors to determine giftedness. In reality, only an IQ test can be trusted.

On 8/08/11, GT1276 wrote: > What you use to identify should be reflective of the program itself. If > we are identifying for mathematical giftedness for example, then using a > language based assessment would not be appropriate. THe problem with most > school identification systems is that they are trying to fit something > that is multi-faceted and complex inside a neat little box. > If I learned anything in my grad work, it is that there is absolutely no > ONE way to identify or define who gifted. It is a debate that has and > continues to rage on in the field since its inception. > The IQ breakdown is arbitrary.. gifted vs. profoundly gifted? All that > really tells us is that two very bright children process information at > different speed and in different ways. > The reliance on IQ is too significant and quite frankly is dependent on > student performance - not ability to perform. What about the > underachiever who has no interest in performing on some "dumb" test. And > not all characteristics listed on these checklists are present with gifted > children. Many gifted students simply do not have the opportunity in the > confines of most public schools around the country to display their > giftedness. (Thank you high stakes testing...) > So, what would I suggest: In addition to selecting ones with high IQ, test > scores, grades, etc., I would say parent input (be careful - they are > after all bias - but they know their kids best), teacher input, self > nomination, performance tasks that show creative/critical thinking > (observing students when they are faced with a given problem), intake > interviews, product assessments. Basically, the goal of education needs > to be that every student is taught at their level - a level that cannot be > determined by testing or checklist alone. > > > > On 7/03/11, Ben wrote: >> Yes, I think the article is partially right. IQ should be the >> determining factor. That way, you would have far fewer kids that >> didn't belong in a gifted program. >> >> On 7/03/11, Bill T 6 NC wrote: >>> >>> A gifted abilities scale is used as one of the criteria for >>> identifying gifted in my current school system. >>> >>> I can see both plus and minus in that approach. While it might >>> identify some who might otherwise slip through the "cracks" because >>> they do not test well on end of grade tests (another criteria), it >>> is very easy for a teacher to be pressured by a parent into giving >>> inflated scores on the scale. >>> >>> My school system WAY over identifies students for our gifted >>> program. I had two blocks (two classes) of "gifted" students this >>> past year. I would say that less than a third of them were >>> actually anywhere close to gifted. Most were just above average >>> students with pushy parents who have political pull. I found that >>> out, rather quickly, when I ratched up the challenge level of the >>> work we did in class (the level, not the amount) and many did not >>> or would not meet the challenge. >>> >>> The pushy parents went amuck, of course. I guess I might too, when >>> reality smacked me in the face like that. >>> >>> "My child always got A's." >>> >>> I was the target of several complaints and false accusations. Oh, it >>> got interesting, particularly with our weak kneed, new principal >>> who just came from an elementary school and was absolutely >>> overlwhelmed by the task of running a middle school. But I stayed >>> the course. I didn't maintain as high of standards as I should and >>> for that, I blame me. But the cream did rise to the top, finally. >>> >>> So while I see both merit and shortcoming in the use of checklists, >>> it would not make me unhappy if we didn't use them anymore

Nov 8, 2011

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