how is this fair

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how is this fair

by Ed U Kaytor

Nov 9, 2011

a regular education teacher gets behavior disabled and learning disabled kids mainstreamed into his class of 30+ students, while the GT teacher next door can't have more than 15 of the best and brightest in his class?

How is that the best use of educational resources? Pack in the low-achievers into a classroom, but don't dare put the brightest students in a big class!

Why not mainstream GT students too? Give them enrichments just like the BD and LD students get accomodations?

That way the GT teachers can teach bigger classes and reduce class sizes overall for the whole school?

BTW, I know a couple of Gateway teachers who would retire first before teaching the students I teach!

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Ed U Kaytor There are several Gateway teachers at my school, and between them they probably write two referrals a year! The average general teacher writes about 2 every nine weeks!

Are you going to honestly say that gateway kids need small group instruction, but general kids, who may be anywhere from a few to several years behind in reading level, are...See MoreThere are several Gateway teachers at my school, and between them they probably write two referrals a year! The average general teacher writes about 2 every nine weeks!

Are you going to honestly say that gateway kids need small group instruction, but general kids, who may be anywhere from a few to several years behind in reading level, are packed into classes of 30? Seriously?

Wouldn't it be better off doing the opposite? Have large classes of Gateway and small classes of low achievers?

yes, Gateway has different challenges, but how many fights to Gateway teachers break up? How man parent phone numbers are no longer working? How many times a day do they have to tell their students to stop sagging, wake up, do their work, and stay on task.

Spare me the grass is always greener speech. As I said, there are Gateway teachers in my school I know would retire before they'd teach general kids!

And since I don't believe Gateway should get more preferred treatment over general kids, it would be hypocritical of me to want to teach in Gateway.

Having Gateway kids in small classes while the most challenging and at-risk students packed in big classes is a case of the rich getting richer and the poor getting left behind! On 11/09/11, M wrote: > You sound disgruntled with your class make up. It is not the > gifted students fault that they require specialized > instruction, just as those on the other end do. There is a > large body of research supporting cluster grouping as it sounds > as if your school is implementing. If you think it is a dream > to teach the gifted kids, maybe you should think about getting > certified to teach them. Those 15 kids may take a great deal > more planning, knowledge and may also have very helicopter like > parents with their own issues to deal with. The grass is not > always greener on the other side. But we like to keep our > board friendly. Everyone needs to vent sometimes, but this > felt a little personal. Those who are here are here because we > love these kiddos and meeting their needs. Many of us feel very > strongly about getting their academic needs met because we do > see them as a special population who requires more than the > general curriculum can give them. If you are interested in > getting assistance we'd be glad to help, but perhaps you might > think about asking questions rather than venting at us.

Nov 9, 2011

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Ginny A lot of scholars in gifted ed. are concerned about this very issue--does gifted education contribute to social inequality? What I've found to be the general consensus is complicated because the theory doesn't always match the practice. Gifted kids need different services and types of teaching then general ed. and special ed. students. Without gift...See More

Nov 9, 2011

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KK 30 is too many students, no matter what ability level you're talking about. There is considerable research that shows that having a wide range of ability levels in one classroom is much more demanding than cluster grouping within similar ranges. I agree that it makes sense to have smaller class sizes, with additional teacher push-in support for stu...See More30 is too many students, no matter what ability level you're talking about. There is considerable research that shows that having a wide range of ability levels in one classroom is much more demanding than cluster grouping within similar ranges. I agree that it makes sense to have smaller class sizes, with additional teacher push-in support for students who have learning challenges. However, I absolutely know that advanced learners need small class sizes, too.

It sounds like you are in a frustrating situation, but it is really ignorant to claim that the best educational practice would be to mainstream gifted students into class sizes of 30 or more. It sounds like you believe that students who learn quickly are also well-behaved students. I don't know how students in your district are identified, so maybe they are a bunch of high-achieving, rule-following people-pleasers, but I can assure you that gifted students do not all fit that mold. In fact, many teachers find them infinitely more frustrating to teach because they tend to question instructions, argue with each other, point out (and not necessarily with tact) when the teacher makes mistakes, be extremely sensitive to criticism, be very stubborn about how they want to work and what they want to work on, and on, and on. How many times do teachers have to remind gifted students to get back on task? Seriously? It doesn't sound like you are at all familiar with characteristics of gifted children if you are asking that question.

Another thing you may not be aware of is that within a range of gifted students, there can be a wider range between the "lowest" gifted student and the highest as there is between the "lowest" general student and the "lowest" gifted student. Sometimes you have a tenth grader's intellectual ability walking around in a seven year old body. It's not easy to find that child age-appropriate fiction reading, or help that child get along with age-mates, or even to help her relate to adults who expect academic and behavioral perfection from her because of her IQ score.

Gifted kids also come from high-poverty backgrounds where phones don't work, where power gets turned off, where 10 people share two bedrooms. Sometimes gifted kids are the chair-throwers and the floor-lickers and the ones in the office for too many incomplete assignments or for impudence to authority figures. Gifted kids can be twice exceptional, in case you weren't aware of that. It can be very challenging to teach a child who has adult-level mathematics skills but who won't make eye contact and will spend all day in a battle over having to write one sentence. It can also be challenging to advocate for that child's gifted services when other people want to focus on his learning deficits.

So yes, I am going to honestly say that gifted kids need small group instruction. We wouldn't be better off doing the opposite, as you suggest, but we would be better off with class sizes of no larger than 20 in the middle and smaller groups at either end.

On 11/09/11, Ed U Kaytor wrote: > There are several Gateway teachers at my school, and between them > they probably write two referrals a year! The average general > teacher writes about 2 every nine weeks! > > Are you going to honestly say that gateway kids need small group > instruction, but general kids, who may be anywhere from a few to > several years behind in reading level, are packed into classes of > 30? Seriously? > > Wouldn't it be better off doing the opposite? Have large classes > of Gateway and small classes of low achievers? > > yes, Gateway has different challenges, but how many fights to > Gateway teachers break up? How man parent phone numbers are no > longer working? How many times a day do they have to tell their > students to stop sagging, wake up, do their work, and stay on > task. > > Spare me the grass is always greener speech. As I said, there are > Gateway teachers in my school I know would retire before they'd > teach general kids! > > And since I don't believe Gateway should get more preferred > treatment over general kids, it would be hypocritical of me to > want to teach in Gateway. > > Having Gateway kids in small classes while the most challenging > and at-risk students packed in big classes is a case of the rich > getting richer and the poor getting left behind! > On 11/09/11, M wrote: >> You sound disgruntled with your class make up. It is not the >> gifted students fault that they require specialized >> instruction, just as those on the other end do. There is a >> large body of research supporting cluster grouping as it sounds >> as if your school is implementing. If you think it is a dream >> to teach the gifted kids, maybe you should think about getting >> certified to teach them. Those 15 kids may take a great deal >> more planning, knowledge and may also have very helicopter like >> parents with their own issues to deal with. The grass is not >> always greener on the other side. But we like to keep our >> board friendly. Everyone needs to vent sometimes, but this >> felt a little personal. Those who are here are here because we >> love these kiddos and meeting their needs. Many of us feel very >> strongly about getting their academic needs met because we do >> see them as a special population who requires more than the >> general curriculum can give them. If you are interested in >> getting assistance we'd be glad to help, but perhaps you might >> think about asking questions rather than venting at us.

Nov 10, 2011

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Anita Gifted students are exceptional learners as well. This is the reason the IDEA should become the the IEEA--Individuals with Exceptionalities Educational Act. Then all students' needs would be met appropriately.

Anita learntoreadnow

On 11/09/11, Ed U Kaytor wrote: > a regular education teacher gets behavior disabled and > lear...See More

Dec 9, 2011

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Bill T 6 NC (getting into this a bit late) Ed u Kaytor, I used to be where you are now. To answer your question....it isn't "fair," but neither would the arrangement you suggest be equitable.

All students have needs that must be met, whether they are autistic, regular ed, or a genius. The overall problem is that not enough resources are being devoted to that task, particularly whe...See More

Mar 10, 2012

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