Mandatory summer school

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NCLB Chatboard

Mandatory summer school

by AYP rates

Aug 3, 2008

If the government is SO serious about students who are behind getting extra help. Why don't they just require all students who don't pass the test to be required to attend school during the summer and I'm not talking about for a couple of weeks either. I am talking about two extra months of schooling.

If we are serious about these kids catching up them lets get serious about it. Summer vacations are not equal. Many of these kids who are behind in school actually get farther behind during the summer vacation. If we are lucky they only stagnat. Many unfortuanately actually LOSE ground. On the other hand their classmates, who read, watch Discovery channel and are enrolled in enrichment activities come back to school with more education than they left, further the gap. The other students do not sit around and wait for the students who are behind to catch up. Every trick we do in the classroom to give them the extra boost, to make it easier to learn is also doing the same for the k...See More

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Kim/AR/math On 8/06/08, Tessa- FL wrote: > > Kim, have you ever taught title 1? Try it sometime, you'll see > why testing a 4th grader on 4th grade material doesn't work.

I have never taught elementary school, but I do teach in a district that has title 1. Why do you say it doesn't work? Because the kids fail? If the student can not do 4th g...See MoreOn 8/06/08, Tessa- FL wrote: > > Kim, have you ever taught title 1? Try it sometime, you'll see > why testing a 4th grader on 4th grade material doesn't work.

I have never taught elementary school, but I do teach in a district that has title 1. Why do you say it doesn't work? Because the kids fail? If the student can not do 4th grade work, and he fails the test, then it seems to me the test does work. It is an accurate reflection of the child's ability.

> These kids move from town to town to town, country to country, > and are never able to get a solid backgroud in anything. So > what should we do, keep those kids in 3rd grade when they're 14 > years old?

No, I don't think that is the answer. But I don't think passing them along like everything is ok is the answer either. Like I said, my school has had some success with double blocking. I also like the idea of ALEs. My district has one in the high school, and this year will be adding one at the elementary level.

> Some of them will never pass the test and are > destined to work at McDonalds. There's nothing wrong with that, > but there's something wrong with punishing schools who can't > teach children who are unable to learn. When a kid has an IQ of > 72 (like one of my students) he will never be on grade level. > Because of this low IQ, he wasn't qualified for SPED because he > was "performing at the level expected for his IQ." Should we > keep him in elementary school until age 18?

I have encountered situations like you described where student's IQ doesn't qualify him for sped. No, I think he should be in an ALE.

If a student will never be on grade level, then do you think he really deserves a diploma stating he has completed 12th grade, when he is actually being taught at a 7th grade level?

> > We had a debate at my school over where to place a new 11 year > old: in 2nd grade where he belongs academically, or in 4th > grade where he should be socially. His drug addict momma never > sent him to school before. Of course he was put in 2nd grade > because he'd flunk the state test and make our school look bad. > He left and is some other school now (his 3rd school in 2 > years.)

I think there should be more alternatives like I described above.

> I'm guessing that you don't have many problems like > this where you teach.

I do have similar problems where I teach - students who speak little or no English, students who have been "homeschooled" when they actually just stayed home doing nothing, highly mobile students...

Aug 8, 2008

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Tessa- FL On 8/08/08, Kim/AR/math wrote:

> I have never taught elementary school, but I do teach in a > district that has title 1. Why do you say it doesn't work? Because > the kids fail? If the student can not do 4th grade work, and he > fails the test, then it seems to me the test does work. It is an > accurate reflection of the ch...See MoreOn 8/08/08, Kim/AR/math wrote:

> I have never taught elementary school, but I do teach in a > district that has title 1. Why do you say it doesn't work? Because > the kids fail? If the student can not do 4th grade work, and he > fails the test, then it seems to me the test does work. It is an > accurate reflection of the child's ability. > >

Yes, the test does it's job. The problem is that NCLB uses it to punish the school as if it's the school's fault for not teaching them (AYP, school grades, etc). Why are we blamed when kids come and go year in and year out? Our population, and the poor choices they make, is not our fault. Also, where we are, a student can be in third grade for 3 years due to not passing the FCAT (if they fail twice they repeat. On the third failure we give up and pass them to 4th.) Like I said, some will never pass the test. We can't keep them in third grade forever.

> > No, I don't think that is the answer. But I don't think passing > them along like everything is ok is the answer either. Like I > said, my school has had some success with double blocking. I also > like the idea of ALEs. My district has one in the high school, and > this year will be adding one at the elementary level. >

I don't know what ALE is. If we don't pass them along, then they are years older than their peers. I don't see how this is good. It humiliates and frustrates them. But if we pass them along, they never catch up, again they are humiliated and frustrated. There's no good answer.

> > I have encountered situations like you described where student's > IQ doesn't qualify him for sped. No, I think he should be in an > ALE. > > If a student will never be on grade level, then do you think he > really deserves a diploma stating he has completed 12th grade, > when he is actually being taught at a 7th grade level? > > > > > I think there should be more alternatives like I described above. >

I agree, students shouldn't graduate on 7th grade material. But to be honest these kids will drop out the minute they turn 16 so it's not really an issue. After years of failing they can't wait to be done. The issue is how do we teach them without humiliation (being held back again and again) and how do the schools avoid humiliation.

Aug 8, 2008

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Kim/AR/math On 8/08/08, Tessa- FL wrote: ... The problem is that NCLB uses it to > punish the school as if it's the school's fault for not teaching them > (AYP, school grades, etc). Why are we blamed when kids come and go > year in and year out? Our population, and the poor choices they make, > is not our fault.

I agree that the schools a...See More

Aug 8, 2008

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Tessa- FL On 8/08/08, Kim/AR/math wrote:

> > Alternative Learning Environment... Some schools use it for students who > can't control their behavior in a normal classroom setting, pregnant > students, students who are way below grade level, a GED class, etc > > >

Thanks for the definition. This seems to be the way to ...See More

Aug 8, 2008

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OP We have the same situation. ALE doesn't begin until 8th grade and then we have to fight for every position we can get. (We share with 6 other schools.) The waiting list is very long.

This is also one of the reasons that I recommend having mandatory summerschool for students who don't pass the test. Automatically everyone in the program wil...See More

Aug 17, 2008

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