filling up classes

Join Teachers.Net

Chatboards

Recent Groups

Art Teachers

MEMBERS

20 Members

+ Join Group

Pinned Posts

ALLAll Teachers

Teachers.Net LIVE CHAT Support group - Tues eve!

Featured Jobs

Full-timeMontessori Teacher

Maple Ridge, British Columbia, Canada

TemporaryTeachers, rural schools

Peace River North School District

Full-timeHead Teacher: 2nd/3rd Grades – Mills College Children’s School

Mills College

Teaching Jobs on Teachers.Net

Featured Job special only $39!

https://teachers.net/jobs

Become a Teachers.Net sponsor!

Art Teachers Chatboard

filling up classes

by how does it work?

Apr 14, 2013

I am wondering how visual arts classes are treated in terms of scheduling at other high schools. At ours, we've been giving students choice sheets to fill out indicating their preferences from a long list of electives (Visual Arts, Performing Arts and miscellaneous). To my shock, much fewer than 50% of our students, including incoming 9th graders chose Visual Arts classes for next year. This kind of thing can threaten to close classes in the Visual Arts as well as, in a worst-case scenario, cause us to lose teachers in our department.

The whole thing seems very strange to me. I would assume it's normal that a Visual Arts department would set up the classes they're willing to offer and the kids would choose from those. Otherwise, the department would have to constantly appeal to kids through what could amount to a popularity contest, with the popular teachers and easy classes getting the most sign-ups. That's what's happened in many cases with the electives we are competing wi...See More

Comment

(14)

report post

view previous comments

how does it work?-any opinions? On 5/07/13, how does it work? wrote: > On 5/05/13, CiciNParadise wrote: >> On 4/20/13, Opaque or transparent? wrote: >>> In my high school it is an opaque process that we really don't >>> trust. As in yours, students sign up in course selection for >>> elective courses. Then the art staff is told which courses wi...See MoreOn 5/07/13, how does it work? wrote: > On 5/05/13, CiciNParadise wrote: >> On 4/20/13, Opaque or transparent? wrote: >>> In my high school it is an opaque process that we really don't >>> trust. As in yours, students sign up in course selection for >>> elective courses. Then the art staff is told which courses will run >>> or not, depending on future enrollment. The art teachers feel that >>> our courses are the last to be filled, and we know from students >>> that they are often steered away from our courses by counselors, or >>> told that there is no room in their schedules... Sometimes even for >>> students who plan to major in art at college. There really is no >>> way for us to really see the process, so it seems like it is done by >>> design. This is how art teachers can be furloughed due to low >>> enrollment. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/19/13, how does it work? wrote: >>>> On 4/16/13, how does it work? wrote: >>>>> On 4/14/13, how does it work? wrote: >>>>>> I am wondering how visual arts classes are treated in terms >>>>>> of scheduling at other high schools. At ours, we've been >>>>>> giving students choice sheets to fill out indicating their >>>>>> preferences from a long list of electives (Visual Arts, >>>>>> Performing Arts and miscellaneous). To my shock, much fewer >>>>>> than 50% of our students, including incoming 9th graders >>>>>> chose Visual Arts classes for next year. This kind of thing >>>>>> can threaten to close classes in the Visual Arts as well as, >>>>>> in a worst-case scenario, cause us to lose teachers in our >>>>>> department. >>>>>> >>>>>> The whole thing seems very strange to me. I would assume >>>>>> it's normal that a Visual Arts department would set up the >>>>>> classes they're willing to offer and the kids would choose >>>>>> from those. Otherwise, the department would have to >>>>>> constantly appeal to kids through what could amount to a >>>>>> popularity contest, with the popular teachers and easy >>>>>> classes getting the most sign-ups. That's what's happened in >>>>>> many cases with the electives we are competing with. >>>>>> >>>>>> How typical is this scenario in high schools? Do you have to >>>>>> close certain classes from time to time, offering them in >>>>>> later years when there's interest? Do you have to create >>>>>> classes to get enough students to retain teaching positions? >>>>>> >>>>> I'd really love to hear responses to this post >> >> >> Placement in most schools is only as good as the counseling staff. I >> have had promising students told by counselors that they "didn't need >> any more art" after Art 1. I have also had students placed in AP3D when >> the counselor thought it was the sequel to AP2D. Most counselors have a >> shaky idea at best in what we offer and they are more concerned just >> getting the kids through the system than filling classes. My school has >> the smallest art faculty of any in my district largely because the >> administration doesn't see the benefit. But we're getting three more >> coaches next year so we can keep up with the other schools. I will try >> to restrain my enthusiasm. > > It sounds like the norm then is to allow kids' interest to dictate what > electives (art or any other ) are offered, and counselors normally mess > things up because their priorities are completely different from teachers. > Does anyone have experience with the loss of an art program due to lack > of student interest? And how much does this interest fluctuate from year > to year? If you have a poor turnout one year, with a small number of > students signing up, can that change dramatically the next year due to > students who happen to be coming in as 9th graders or who simply want a > change from other electives they've already taken? How much of a role > does generating student interest for art classes have during the course > of the year?

May 15, 2013

report post

Electives SHOULD be the students' choice, though, right? On 5/15/13, how does it work?-any opinions? wrote: > On 5/07/13, how does it work? wrote: >> On 5/05/13, CiciNParadise wrote: >>> On 4/20/13, Opaque or transparent? wrote: >>>> In my high school it is an opaque process that we >>>> really don't trust. As in yours, students sign up >>>> in course...See MoreOn 5/15/13, how does it work?-any opinions? wrote: > On 5/07/13, how does it work? wrote: >> On 5/05/13, CiciNParadise wrote: >>> On 4/20/13, Opaque or transparent? wrote: >>>> In my high school it is an opaque process that we >>>> really don't trust. As in yours, students sign up >>>> in course selection for elective courses. Then >>>> the art staff is told which courses will run or >>>> not, depending on future enrollment. The art >>>> teachers feel that our courses are the last to be >>>> filled, and we know from students that they are >>>> often steered away from our courses by >>>> counselors, or told that there is no room in >>>> their schedules... Sometimes even for students >>>> who plan to major in art at college. There really >>>> is no way for us to really see the process, so it >>>> seems like it is done by design. This is how art >>>> teachers can be furloughed due to low enrollment. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 4/19/13, how does it work? wrote: >>>>> On 4/16/13, how does it work? wrote: >>>>>> On 4/14/13, how does it work? wrote: >>>>>>> I am wondering how visual arts classes are >>>>>>> treated in terms of scheduling at other >>>>>>> high schools. At ours, we've been giving >>>>>>> students choice sheets to fill out >>>>>>> indicating their preferences from a long >>>>>>> list of electives (Visual Arts, Performing >>>>>>> Arts and miscellaneous). To my shock, much >>>>>>> fewer than 50% of our students, including >>>>>>> incoming 9th graders chose Visual Arts >>>>>>> classes for next year. This kind of thing >>>>>>> can threaten to close classes in the Visual >>>>>>> Arts as well as, in a worst-case scenario, >>>>>>> cause us to lose teachers in our >>>>>>> department. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The whole thing seems very strange to me. I >>>>>>> would assume it's normal that a Visual Arts >>>>>>> department would set up the classes they're >>>>>>> willing to offer and the kids would choose >>>>>>> from those. Otherwise, the department would >>>>>>> have to constantly appeal to kids through >>>>>>> what could amount to a popularity contest, >>>>>>> with the popular teachers and easy classes >>>>>>> getting the most sign-ups. That's what's >>>>>>> happened in many cases with the electives >>>>>>> we are competing with. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How typical is this scenario in high >>>>>>> schools? Do you have to close certain >>>>>>> classes from time to time, offering them in >>>>>>> later years when there's interest? Do you >>>>>>> have to create classes to get enough >>>>>>> students to retain teaching positions? >>>>>>> >>>>>> I'd really love to hear responses to this post >>> >>> >>> Placement in most schools is only as good as the >>> counseling staff. I have had promising students >>> told by counselors that they "didn't need any >>> more art" after Art 1. I have also had >>> students placed in AP3D when the counselor thought >>> it was the sequel to AP2D. Most counselors have a >>> shaky idea at best in what we offer and they are >>> more concerned just getting the kids through the >>> system than filling classes. My school has the >>> smallest art faculty of any in my district largely >>> because the administration doesn't see the benefit. >>> But we're getting three more coaches next year so >>> we can keep up with the other schools. I will try >>> to restrain my enthusiasm. >> >> It sounds like the norm then is to allow kids' >> interest to dictate what electives (art or any other >> ) are offered, and counselors normally mess things up >> because their priorities are completely different >> from teachers. Does anyone have experience with the >> loss of an art program due to lack of student >> interest? And how much does this interest fluctuate >> from year to year? If you have a poor turnout one >> year, with a small number of students signing up, can >> that change dramatically the next year due to >> students who happen to be coming in as 9th graders or >> who simply want a change from other electives they've >> already taken? How much of a role does generating >> student interest for art classes have during the >> course of the year?

That's why they're called "electives." The students can elect to take those courses or to pass them over for other elective courses that they're more interested in taking.

Not getting how your counselors are messing things up. If the art classes at your school are unpopular with the students, then honestly, it's probably time to start talking to some students to find out WHY they don't want to enroll in those classes. And, I mean, it's ART CLASS! Most kids enjoy art, so something's happening in the art classes at your school to obliterate that enjoyment.

Your best bet, both for your own sanity and for your career security, is to find out why your art classes are so widely unpopular, and then to revise the curriculum accordingly. Blaming the counselors won't fix the problem; they have no control over what goes on in art class. And the problem absolutely isn't that children have the freedom to elect their electives. That's how it's supposed to work.

But what's going on in those art classes that has so many children disliking art class? That's the hurdle you need to conquer.

May 15, 2013

report post

how does it work? On 5/15/13, Electives SHOULD be the students' choice, though, right? wrote: > On 5/15/13, how does it work?-any opinions? wrote: >> On 5/07/13, how does it work? wrote: >>> On 5/05/13, CiciNParadise wrote: >>>> On 4/20/13, Opaque or transparent? wrote: >>>>> In my high school it is an opaque process that...See MoreOn 5/15/13, Electives SHOULD be the students' choice, though, right? wrote: > On 5/15/13, how does it work?-any opinions? wrote: >> On 5/07/13, how does it work? wrote: >>> On 5/05/13, CiciNParadise wrote: >>>> On 4/20/13, Opaque or transparent? wrote: >>>>> In my high school it is an opaque process that we >>>>> really don't trust. As in yours, students sign up >>>>> in course selection for elective courses. Then >>>>> the art staff is told which courses will run or >>>>> not, depending on future enrollment. The art >>>>> teachers feel that our courses are the last to be >>>>> filled, and we know from students that they are >>>>> often steered away from our courses by >>>>> counselors, or told that there is no room in >>>>> their schedules... Sometimes even for students >>>>> who plan to major in art at college. There really >>>>> is no way for us to really see the process, so it >>>>> seems like it is done by design. This is how art >>>>> teachers can be furloughed due to low enrollment. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 4/19/13, how does it work? wrote: >>>>>> On 4/16/13, how does it work? wrote: >>>>>>> On 4/14/13, how does it work? wrote: >>>>>>>> I am wondering how visual arts classes are >>>>>>>> treated in terms of scheduling at other >>>>>>>> high schools. At ours, we've been giving >>>>>>>> students choice sheets to fill out >>>>>>>> indicating their preferences from a long >>>>>>>> list of electives (Visual Arts, Performing >>>>>>>> Arts and miscellaneous). To my shock, much >>>>>>>> fewer than 50% of our students, including >>>>>>>> incoming 9th graders chose Visual Arts >>>>>>>> classes for next year. This kind of thing >>>>>>>> can threaten to close classes in the Visual >>>>>>>> Arts as well as, in a worst-case scenario, >>>>>>>> cause us to lose teachers in our >>>>>>>> department. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The whole thing seems very strange to me. I >>>>>>>> would assume it's normal that a Visual Arts >>>>>>>> department would set up the classes they're >>>>>>>> willing to offer and the kids would choose >>>>>>>> from those. Otherwise, the department would >>>>>>>> have to constantly appeal to kids through >>>>>>>> what could amount to a popularity contest, >>>>>>>> with the popular teachers and easy classes >>>>>>>> getting the most sign-ups. That's what's >>>>>>>> happened in many cases with the electives >>>>>>>> we are competing with. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How typical is this scenario in high >>>>>>>> schools? Do you have to close certain >>>>>>>> classes from time to time, offering them in >>>>>>>> later years when there's interest? Do you >>>>>>>> have to create classes to get enough >>>>>>>> students to retain teaching positions? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd really love to hear responses to this post >>>> >>>> >>>> Placement in most schools is only as good as the >>>> counseling staff. I have had promising students >>>> told by counselors that they "didn't need any >>>> more art" after Art 1. I have also had >>>> students placed in AP3D when the counselor thought >>>> it was the sequel to AP2D. Most counselors have a >>>> shaky idea at best in what we offer and they are >>>> more concerned just getting the kids through the >>>> system than filling classes. My school has the >>>> smallest art faculty of any in my district largely >>>> because the administration doesn't see the benefit. >>>> But we're getting three more coaches next year so >>>> we can keep up with the other schools. I will try >>>> to restrain my enthusiasm. >>> >>> It sounds like the norm then is to allow kids' >>> interest to dictate what electives (art or any other >>> ) are offered, and counselors normally mess things up >>> because their priorities are completely different >>> from teachers. Does anyone have experience with the >>> loss of an art program due to lack of student >>> interest? And how much does this interest fluctuate >>> from year to year? If you have a poor turnout one >>> year, with a small number of students signing up, can >>> that change dramatically the next year due to >>> students who happen to be coming in as 9th graders or >>> who simply want a change from other electives they've >>> already taken? How much of a role does generating >>> student interest for art classes have during the >>> course of the year? > > > That's why they're called "electives." The students can > elect to take those courses or to pass them over for other > elective courses that they're more interested in taking. > > Not getting how your counselors are messing things up. If > the art classes at your school are unpopular with the > students, then honestly, it's probably time to start talking > to some students to find out WHY they don't want to enroll > in those classes. And, I mean, it's ART CLASS! Most kids > enjoy art, so something's happening in the art classes at > your school to obliterate that enjoyment. > > Your best bet, both for your own sanity and for your career > security, is to find out why your art classes are so widely > unpopular, and then to revise the curriculum accordingly. > Blaming the counselors won't fix the problem; they have no > control over what goes on in art class. And the problem > absolutely isn't that children have the freedom to elect > their electives. That's how it's supposed to work. > > But what's going on in those art classes that has so many > children disliking art class? That's the hurdle you need to > conquer.

You make a good point, but consider this: we have a random community. There's no reason for us to think there are more or less visual arts-oriented kids at our school than anywhere else. We also have a small population and a ton of other electives, including performing arts and traditionally "fun" classes like Yearbook. Roughly 1/3 of our students, including incoming Freshmen have chosen Visual Arts classes. Yes, it could be that since we teach rigor in our classes, many students avoid them to take easy classes with easy teachers. It seems the best approach may be to provide classes that seem more exciting than simply drawing or painting. I have also noticed that our photo and film classes are very popular. I attribute this, at least in part, to the perception kids may have that these are not art classes, but again, fun classes. Translated as: I can sit around and not do much and get an easy A.

What I refuse to do is try to be more popular myself to fill my classes, or lower my academic standards. I need to think of what kinds of classes will bring in more kids. I'm guessing classes that deal with digital media

May 17, 2013

report post

CiciNParadise . > > But what's going on in those art classes that has so many > children disliking art class? That's the hurdle you need to > conquer.

There are many factors at play. Due to site based management, some of our feeder schools don't even offer art as a rotation for sixth graders. They get in band, orchestra or athletics and the ...See More

Jun 9, 2013

report post

CiciNParadise br> > You make a good point, but consider this: we have a random > community. There's no reason for us to think there are more or > less visual arts-oriented kids at our school than anywhere else. > We also have a small population and a ton of other electives, > including performing arts and traditionally "fun" classes like > Y...See Morebr> > You make a good point, but consider this: we have a random > community. There's no reason for us to think there are more or > less visual arts-oriented kids at our school than anywhere else. > We also have a small population and a ton of other electives, > including performing arts and traditionally "fun" classes like > Yearbook. Roughly 1/3 of our students, including incoming > Freshmen have chosen Visual Arts classes. Yes, it could be that > since we teach rigor in our classes, many students avoid them to > take easy classes with easy teachers. It seems the best approach > may be to provide classes that seem more exciting than simply > drawing or painting. I have also noticed that our photo and > film classes are very popular. I attribute this, at least in > part, to the perception kids may have that these are not art > classes, but again, fun classes. Translated as: I can sit around > and not do much and get an easy A. > > What I refuse to do is try to be more popular myself to fill my > classes, or lower my academic standards. I need to think of what > kinds of classes will bring in more kids. I'm guessing classes > that deal with digital media

The last paragraph echoes my own sentiments. However due to the implementation of BYOT, I have had to drop entire units because students are so very very very distracted by their phones and other electronics. This last term, despite cutting a unit and giving the class far more of a safety net than before, my Art 1 class made the lowest scores on my final in seven years and had the lowest averages. I have allowed open note tests for art history sections, and even given them the test questions in the form of an online review. Half of them didn't even bother to do the review. The highest grade with a five point curve was an 85. Keep in mind this is the same set of lessons I taught in the Fall and had scores ranging from 99 to 43. The bottom line is that counselors, parents and administrators do not see the importance of art as a developmental tool. I have observed students who fail my class also often fail English and History. The upcoming teens have little practice writing or thinking on their own. They want multiple choice tests and then they jettison whatever they have learned. Since my class is cumulative, with skills being built upon skills, I can't do that for tests. I have five years and I am trying very hard to involved students. I have gotten students in elite art schools like Pratt, RISD, SVU,SCAD and Art Center-but it seems that the more technology is involved the less engaged the students become.

Jun 9, 2013

report post