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Beginning Teachers Chatboard

Disrespectful students

by Mr. F

May 24, 2012

Hello, I have been teaching Spanish at a rural middle school since January and have some great kids. However, one of my classes has been difficult to deal with all along. I have been very strict with them. On a side note, I know very well that respect is earned, not given. I live by that every day. I always give respect to the student to teach them about the rule 'Treat others the way you want to be treated.'

As you can imagine, while the year is coming to a close, the situation is getting a little more tense (these are eighth graders getting ready to move on to high school). Furthermore, I am the third Spanish teacher this school year.

Here is what happened: towards the end of class, a student 'flicked' a peice of plastic at me. I responded demanding to know who it was. I knew that of course no one would come forward (but I gave it a try anyway). So, I gave the entire class an ultimatum. If know one comes forward, I will not allow the class to have a 'relax' day on t...See More

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Mr. F On 5/24/12, Mr. F wrote: > Hello, I have been teaching Spanish at a rural middle > school since January and have some great kids. However, one > of my classes has been difficult to deal with all along. I > have been very strict with them. On a side note, I know > very well that respect is earned, not given. I live by that > every ...See More

May 24, 2012

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pixie I totally know how you feel! It is hard to get used to the idea that some kids take pleasure in tormenting a hard-working teacher who is just trying to offer them something of value. I cannot claim to be an expert but in my years of studying student behavior issues I can agree that asking who did something is not the best route. The students will t...See MoreI totally know how you feel! It is hard to get used to the idea that some kids take pleasure in tormenting a hard-working teacher who is just trying to offer them something of value. I cannot claim to be an expert but in my years of studying student behavior issues I can agree that asking who did something is not the best route. The students will think it is hilarious and No One will snitch, which they consider the cardinal sin. If you continue to get visibly more frustrated, they will be absolutely in their glory. I would add that whole-class consequences are not a good idea, according to the experts. It gives the disrespecter too much power over the rest of the class. My go-to expert for these things is Dr. Fred Jones, who has an excellent website with a wealth of free materials. One thing that I use is his advice to move slowly and deliberately when students try to push your buttons. If you suddenly pivot around and hustle to where the disturbance is coming from, and demand to know who did something, they know they have got you. (I learned this the hard way years ago as a sub, when students in a technology learned to make the computer speak risque comments in a comedian's voice. They would wait until I was at the other side of the room and then when you heard it you could not tell who did it. Of course I would zip over and demand to know who was doing it, which was the entertainment highlight of their day. Now, if that happened, I would slowly and casually walk over, and just casually stay there. If the noise sprang up from another part of the room, I would calmly announce that it was time to turn the computers off and work from the textbook.) In his seminars Fred has the whole group practice turning around very slowly, having a regal bearing and a stony "We are not amused" expression, a la Queen Victoria. He has some great ideas for using whole class rewards for good behavior. I would look them up. I highly highly recommend Fred's book Tools for Teaching. He addresses many problems in his free materials, however. In the meanwhile, you might not be able to turn your back on this group. Don't let them see you sweat! Good luck!!

On 5/24/12, Mr. F wrote: > On 5/24/12, Mr. F wrote: >> Hello, I have been teaching Spanish at a rural middle >> school since January and have some great kids. However, one >> of my classes has been difficult to deal with all along. I >> have been very strict with them. On a side note, I know >> very well that respect is earned, not given. I live by that >> every day. I always give respect to the student to teach >> them about the rule 'Treat others the way you want to be >> treated.' >> >> As you can imagine, while the year is coming to a close, >> the situation is getting a little more tense (these are >> eighth graders getting ready to move on to high school). >> Furthermore, I am the third Spanish teacher this school >> year. >> >> Here is what happened: towards the end of class, a >> student 'flicked' a peice of plastic at me. I responded >> demanding to know who it was. I knew that of course no one >> would come forward (but I gave it a try anyway). So, I gave >> the entire class an ultimatum. If no one comes forward, I >> will not allow the class to have a 'relax' day on the last >> day of school. I added, 'If you guys cannot respect me, >> then I cannot give respect back to you.' I was upset to >> find the level of disrespect that was given to me, >> especially after how hard I work for this class. However, O >> feel that I could have dealt with this situation another >> way. >> >> What should I have done to handle this situation a little >> differently?

May 24, 2012

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that's so much worse than disrespect On 5/24/12, Mr. F wrote: >Never demandn to know who did it - you put yourself in the position of being defied. What do you do if no one comes forward??

Exactly - with your 'demand', you backed yourself into a corner. That said, a student flicking plastic at you is not 'disrespect' - it's dislike. Flicking plastic can hurt - it can land ...See MoreOn 5/24/12, Mr. F wrote: >Never demandn to know who did it - you put yourself in the position of being defied. What do you do if no one comes forward??

Exactly - with your 'demand', you backed yourself into a corner. That said, a student flicking plastic at you is not 'disrespect' - it's dislike. Flicking plastic can hurt - it can land in your eye or someone else's eye. No kid flips plastic at you out of disrespect.

And out of this class you don't have any idea of which kid has a problem with you or your class enough to want to throw something at you? Really?

And ultimatums are no better than 'demands' - again you back yourself into a corner with ultimatums. And kids really don't care very much about a promised 'relax day' - they certainly don't care enough about it to turn someone in for it.

Denying them a 'relax day' on the last day of classes isn't much of a good thing in any case - the last day of classes is usually relaxed. Denying them a relax day isn't a sign of your disrespect either - and the statement "I can't respect you because you don't respect me' sounds childish.

All that said too if a student threw something at me - even a piece of plastic - I'd be very reflective about that - especially as you have no idea of who harbored that kind of ill will. If that had happened to me, I would have been genuinely upset and there's nothing wrong and everything right with showing that as in "What just happened here?" (that's my favorite line) "Somebody threw something at me? One of you wants to blind me? Someone here wants to put out my eye badly enough to throw something in the classroom?"

"I'm sorry that our relationship as teacher and student is this bad. We haven't had an easy time of it but throwing something at me is beyond my belief of what decent people do. (sit down heavily at your desk looking genuinely discouraged) "Just open your books to the next chapter. Read ahead." ( and you do the same - don't say another word. Allow the class to be silent until a minute before the bell rings then say "The bell is about to ring. Pack up. I'm sorry this happened - sorrier still that someone in here responds to this class with that kind of back-handed hurtful action. I know you've had three different teachers this year and I can understand that you might not like that or this class. But throwing something at me is not something I thought any of you were small enough and mean enough to do. I see I'm wrong - someone in here is that small and that mean. It's a serious lesson for me. I'd thought better of you than that. I'm clearly wrong. Go to your next class."

Some teachers just get mad - but this is an opportunity to thing about things. Sometimes we do get a kid who's got some small and mean behavior, other times we have a kid who's just misguided, and sometimes we can have done something - however unintentionally to bring out the worst in a kid. That's the part we'd all do well to consider seriously. > >> > > > What should I have done to handle this situation a little > differently?

May 24, 2012

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Mandy Not sure how students react in the environment you teach at, but I know I would be careful about directly calling students "small" or "mean." We try to put the focus on their actions and not them as a person. But again, it depends on the school/community you're in.

Anyway, I think the instinct for any human being would be to ask who did i...See MoreNot sure how students react in the environment you teach at, but I know I would be careful about directly calling students "small" or "mean." We try to put the focus on their actions and not them as a person. But again, it depends on the school/community you're in.

Anyway, I think the instinct for any human being would be to ask who did it. It might not be the best way to handle the situation, but I don't think you or anyone should fault you for making that decision.

I think the key is to address that the action was disrespectful and hurtful and that you would hope that whoever it was would make a better choice in the future.

If you have administrator support, he/she could pull kids one on one and investigate. I know we have an administrator who could get through an entire class in about 10 minutes. Sometimes she get info. Other she doesn't. But I do believe whoever flicked the plastic should receive a consequence (if they ever find out).

Good luck. :)

On 5/24/12, that's so much worse than disrespect wrote: > On 5/24/12, Mr. F wrote: >>Never demandn to know who did it - you put yourself in the > position of being defied. What do you do if no one comes > forward?? > > Exactly - with your 'demand', you backed yourself into a > corner. That said, a student flicking plastic at you is > not 'disrespect' - it's dislike. Flicking plastic can hurt - > it can land in your eye or someone else's eye. No kid flips > plastic at you out of disrespect. > > And out of this class you don't have any idea of which kid has > a problem with you or your class enough to want to throw > something at you? Really? > > And ultimatums are no better than 'demands' - again you back > yourself into a corner with ultimatums. And kids really don't > care very much about a promised 'relax day' - they certainly > don't care enough about it to turn someone in for it. > > Denying them a 'relax day' on the last day of classes isn't > much of a good thing in any case - the last day of classes is > usually relaxed. Denying them a relax day isn't a sign of your > disrespect either - and the statement "I can't respect you > because you don't respect me' sounds childish. > > All that said too if a student threw something at me - even a > piece of plastic - I'd be very reflective about that - > especially as you have no idea of who harbored that kind of > ill will. If that had happened to me, I would have been > genuinely upset and there's nothing wrong and everything right > with showing that as in "What just happened here?" (that's my > favorite line) "Somebody threw something at me? One of you > wants to blind me? Someone here wants to put out my eye badly > enough to throw something in the classroom?" > > "I'm sorry that our relationship as teacher and student is > this bad. We haven't had an easy time of it but throwing > something at me is beyond my belief of what decent people do. > (sit down heavily at your desk looking genuinely > discouraged) "Just open your books to the next chapter. Read > ahead." ( and you do the same - don't say another word. Allow > the class to be silent until a minute before the bell rings > then say "The bell is about to ring. Pack up. I'm sorry this > happened - sorrier still that someone in here responds to this > class with that kind of back-handed hurtful action. I know > you've had three different teachers this year and I can > understand that you might not like that or this class. But > throwing something at me is not something I thought any of you > were small enough and mean enough to do. I see I'm wrong - > someone in here is that small and that mean. It's a serious > lesson for me. I'd thought better of you than that. I'm > clearly wrong. Go to your next class." > > Some teachers just get mad - but this is an opportunity to > thing about things. Sometimes we do get a kid who's got some > small and mean behavior, other times we have a kid who's just > misguided, and sometimes we can have done something - however > unintentionally to bring out the worst in a kid. That's the > part we'd all do well to consider seriously. >> >>> >> >> >> What should I have done to handle this situation a little >> differently?

May 24, 2012

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Mr. Flatley Thanks to all for your responses. I have had time to reflect and found that the teacher's general demeanor can have a large affect on situations like these. I had this class again today and found that the suspected students were calm and ready to move on...I will take what I have learned here and think of better ways to react should this situation ...See MoreThanks to all for your responses. I have had time to reflect and found that the teacher's general demeanor can have a large affect on situations like these. I had this class again today and found that the suspected students were calm and ready to move on...I will take what I have learned here and think of better ways to react should this situation arises again next year. However, I understand that as long as a teacher is proactive and not reactive, there is less of a chance that this will happen again.

On 5/24/12, Mandy wrote: > Not sure how students react in the environment you teach at, but > I know I would be careful about directly calling students "small" > or "mean." We try to put the focus on their actions and not them > as a person. But again, it depends on the school/community you're > in. > > Anyway, I think the instinct for any human being would be to ask > who did it. It might not be the best way to handle the situation, > but I don't think you or anyone should fault you for making that > decision. > > I think the key is to address that the action was disrespectful > and hurtful and that you would hope that whoever it was would > make a better choice in the future. > > If you have administrator support, he/she could pull kids one on > one and investigate. I know we have an administrator who could > get through an entire class in about 10 minutes. Sometimes she > get info. Other she doesn't. But I do believe whoever flicked the > plastic should receive a consequence (if they ever find out). > > Good luck. :) > > On 5/24/12, that's so much worse than disrespect wrote: >> On 5/24/12, Mr. F wrote: >>>Never demandn to know who did it - you put yourself in the >> position of being defied. What do you do if no one comes >> forward?? >> >> Exactly - with your 'demand', you backed yourself into a >> corner. That said, a student flicking plastic at you is >> not 'disrespect' - it's dislike. Flicking plastic can hurt - >> it can land in your eye or someone else's eye. No kid flips >> plastic at you out of disrespect. >> >> And out of this class you don't have any idea of which kid has >> a problem with you or your class enough to want to throw >> something at you? Really? >> >> And ultimatums are no better than 'demands' - again you back >> yourself into a corner with ultimatums. And kids really don't >> care very much about a promised 'relax day' - they certainly >> don't care enough about it to turn someone in for it. >> >> Denying them a 'relax day' on the last day of classes isn't >> much of a good thing in any case - the last day of classes is >> usually relaxed. Denying them a relax day isn't a sign of your >> disrespect either - and the statement "I can't respect you >> because you don't respect me' sounds childish. >> >> All that said too if a student threw something at me - even a >> piece of plastic - I'd be very reflective about that - >> especially as you have no idea of who harbored that kind of >> ill will. If that had happened to me, I would have been >> genuinely upset and there's nothing wrong and everything right >> with showing that as in "What just happened here?" (that's my >> favorite line) "Somebody threw something at me? One of you >> wants to blind me? Someone here wants to put out my eye badly >> enough to throw something in the classroom?" >> >> "I'm sorry that our relationship as teacher and student is >> this bad. We haven't had an easy time of it but throwing >> something at me is beyond my belief of what decent people do. >> (sit down heavily at your desk looking genuinely >> discouraged) "Just open your books to the next chapter. Read >> ahead." ( and you do the same - don't say another word. Allow >> the class to be silent until a minute before the bell rings >> then say "The bell is about to ring. Pack up. I'm sorry this >> happened - sorrier still that someone in here responds to this >> class with that kind of back-handed hurtful action. I know >> you've had three different teachers this year and I can >> understand that you might not like that or this class. But >> throwing something at me is not something I thought any of you >> were small enough and mean enough to do. I see I'm wrong - >> someone in here is that small and that mean. It's a serious >> lesson for me. I'd thought better of you than that. I'm >> clearly wrong. Go to your next class." >> >> Some teachers just get mad - but this is an opportunity to >> thing about things. Sometimes we do get a kid who's got some >> small and mean behavior, other times we have a kid who's just >> misguided, and sometimes we can have done something - however >> unintentionally to bring out the worst in a kid. That's the >> part we'd all do well to consider seriously. >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> What should I have done to handle this situation a little >>> differently?

May 29, 2012

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