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Beginning Teachers Chatboard

Teaching in a Fishbowl

by J.

Nov 26, 2012

Hi all -

I discovered this board trying to find resources to help my husband, who is a first-year middle-school math teacher in a small rural school.

His problem is not the kids; he gets along with them well. The administration is challenging, but he's working through it. His problem is being in the public eye.

In this community (which he commutes to; we don't live there), the school is at the center of everything - literally and metaphorically. As a result, it's politicized in every way imaginable. Every decision he makes is under a microscope, and every parent thinks he should be doing a different thing. They don't talk to him about it; they go directly to the principal, who then comes to his classroom and "suggests" he incorporate the "feedback." If he doesn't, there are a web of consequences, all of which are highly visible and always stressful.

He keeps saying that if there's one thing that will drive him away from teaching, it's suddenly bein...See More

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Vet Teacher On 11/30/12, J wrote: > Hi Vet Teacher - So it's an inexperienced principal or maybe not a very good one. Both happen. Because it's not just two choices between giving in or making them angry - human behavior is somewhat more complicated than that and a good manager works to solve problems and bring some harmony to the situation and certainly wh...See MoreOn 11/30/12, J wrote: > Hi Vet Teacher - So it's an inexperienced principal or maybe not a very good one. Both happen. Because it's not just two choices between giving in or making them angry - human behavior is somewhat more complicated than that and a good manager works to solve problems and bring some harmony to the situation and certainly when it's a school.

It could help if you'd give some examples of what suggestions the parents are making and how well in general the kids are doing in math. As you say the kids are happy that suggests they're doing pretty well. When kids are happy in school and doing well too it's downright odd for parents to be complaining. Parents love nothing more than to hear their kids enjoy math class and to have them doing well. That's not usually a situation that brings parents into the principal with complaints or suggestions.> > If 1/4 of the teachers are new, my math's good enough to tell me that 3/4s of the teachers aren't new. Building colleagues have the best advice.>

If the kids overall aren't doing well in terms of their grades, that's a firestorm and another discussion entirely. If a significant percentage of the kids aren't doing well, that does invite administrative concern and parent dissatisfaction. > > >> > As for the fishbowl itself - that’s harder. The community has > been welcoming to him too, and the kids think he’s great. He > likes this school because he can actually teach math instead of > classroom-managing five sections a day with 35 kids in each like > he did in student-teaching. (His largest class is 19 kids; > smallest is 8.) > > j > > On 11/29/12, Vet Teacher wrote: >> On 11/26/12, J. wrote: >> >> Interesting issue. But is the root of the problem the >> Principal? You can't change where you live and your husband >> teaches a very controversial subject - math. Parents often >> believe that how their children do in math is how they will do >> in life - they attach Huge Importance to math and - every >> parent wants their child to be successful overall but perhaps >> especially in math. >> >> Add to that - the instruction of math has undergone tremendous >> change over the years and the debate about what math to teach >> and how to teach it and test it is ongoing. >> >> I say those things outloud when I teach math and I find it >> helps. I don't present my method of instruction as the only >> one or one that's written in stone. And I grade generously in >> any subject I teach and teach middle school so I can grade >> generously and have the college guidance counselors leave me >> alone. I've lost the ability to see the point in being a >> demanding grader in middle school. I focus my demands on kids >> behaving in class and being a positive member of the class. >> >> All that said, I think the issue lies in the Principal - it's >> time to ask the Principal for some logical input like "Harry, >> how can I incorporate what Selma Smith has asked when it's in >> direct contradiction to what the Joneses want? Selma's asking >> for more homework and the Joneses think I assign too much >> homework? I want to be responsive to parents but how can I do >> opposite things in the same classroom?" >> >> We're all in the public eye as teachers even if our parents >> aren't our neighbors as yours are. The Principal should be >> encouraging parents to "Go and talk to Joe about that" >> or "Let's give Joe some time on this. I know you'd like me to >> make this change and now but patience is a virtue, Selma." >> >> Otherwise, yes, it sounds like an impossible situation even >> though you don't specify what the consequences are in the web >> of them that derive from 'not incorporating the feedback'. >> >> Is it the 'fishbowl feeling' that's bothering him or the >> seeming fishbowl?? What happened to the last teacher in the >> same job? Math is certainly special but is your husband the >> only teacher in the building? Science is another subject the >> curriculum and instruction of which is controversial and a >> subject that parents think their child's future lives or dies >> on - how does the science teacher handle it?

Dec 1, 2012

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J Hi Anon -

Thanks for your response! I appreciate everyone who takes the time to share their thoughts and experiences.

It's reassuring to know that this phenomenon isn't uncommon. And after visiting the community last weekend, I see your point about hidden relationships - the waitress at the cafe where we had breakfast mentioned o...See MoreHi Anon -

Thanks for your response! I appreciate everyone who takes the time to share their thoughts and experiences.

It's reassuring to know that this phenomenon isn't uncommon. And after visiting the community last weekend, I see your point about hidden relationships - the waitress at the cafe where we had breakfast mentioned one of my husband's students by name and asked how he was doing. Turns out she used to babysit for him when he was younger. I hadn't even considered some of these non-family relationships, but they're just as strong.

Thanks for your good wishes!

j

On 11/30/12, Anon for This wrote: > I can relate to this. I have experienced it whenever I've taught in > a small town. Some of the people are absolutely great, but > inevitably, the culture resists change, including anyone new. In > fact, I met parents who were residents for ten years who were still > viewed as "new" by some of the other parents. This is compounded by > the fact that if you have a disagreement or competing interest with > one person, that person is probably married to, or a sibling or > neighbor of another person you work with--and you might not be aware > of the relationship, much less know who has said what to whom. > > The parental influence in small towns is usually very strong and > that's great, because parents are usually very supportive of their > schools, and you get great support for fundraisers and volunteers and > audience members for performances. It's also not, because everyone > has an opinion and isn't afraid to communicate it to you and expect > you to follow it. > > If the administration isn't able or willing to help new teachers > navigate this process, it's even harder. > > Either you and your husband will become comfortable with the small > town culture, and as time goes on, he will be more accepted and > included in the "circle of trust" in the community, or he will find a > job in a larger district and breathe a sigh of relief. > > It's important not to discount advice by other posters about being a > new teacher, either, which is its own brand of stress in any > district. Best wishes--he will find his way. > >

Dec 4, 2012

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J It could help if you'd give some examples of what suggestions the > parents are making and how well in general the kids are doing in > math.

Lately the parents haven't been making suggestions, just complaining what’s happening in the class. The examples that come to mind have to do with testing.

My husband likes to give sm...See MoreIt could help if you'd give some examples of what suggestions the > parents are making and how well in general the kids are doing in > math.

Lately the parents haven't been making suggestions, just complaining what’s happening in the class. The examples that come to mind have to do with testing.

My husband likes to give small, low-stakes tests to assess progress, then a final summative assessment at the end of the unit. Some parents like this approach. Some think that this amount of testing is “excessive.” Some just don’t understand the approach; they hear the word “test” or “quiz” and assume it’s a big deal. Some of them don’t like the idea that their kids are tested at all.

He’s explained a number of times (to the kids and the parents both) that students can make up any of these if they do poorly. The kids that need it just don’t take him up on it. Then their grades suffer, parents see the low test scores, and assume the testing is the cause and not a symptom

A related issue is classroom policies. In general the parents don’t have an issue with any specific policy; some parents just don’t think the policies should apply to their kids.

For instance, when my husband allows kids to retake tests and quizzes, he asks that kids correct the problems on the old test and turn it in. If a kid loses the old test, some parents will insist the kid still be able to make up the test. When my husband politely points to the policy, they say he’s being unreasonable.

These are tiny, low-stakes tests, so if a kid doesn’t make any single one up, it’s not the end of the world. But that’s not the story the parents tell the principal (they may honestly not know or they may be conveniently forgetting), and the principal doesn’t often ask my husband for his sense of the situation before "questioning" the policy.

When I say “the kids are happy”, I should probably say “most of the kids.” As far as I know, the grades are about where you’d expect and most of the kids seem to be getting the concepts.

But there are a few Special Snowflakes in this class (like there probably are in every class) whose parents feel the need to make everything just so for their little cherubs.

If Snowflake Suzy or Sam isn’t doing well, it can’t be because s/he won’t turn in any homework or doodles during the lesson; it’s the teacher won’t give her full credit on late homework or a retake on that test he cheated on. And in a community of hyper-involved parents, all you need is a core group of two or three “concerned” folks to heat things up.

I guess he could change the policies, but then he'd potentially be doing so all the time and for reasons that may not be pedagogically sound. And these are not awful, onerous policies; they're very doable for middle school. It doesn't hurt the kids to learn to keep things organized if they know they'll need to find things later. They get a ton of reminders and help in this regard.

j

Dec 4, 2012

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Vet Teacher On 12/04/12, J wrote: >> It could help if you'd give some examples of what suggestions the >> parents are making and how well in general the kids are doing in >> math. > > Lately the parents haven't been making suggestions, just complaining > what’s happening in the class. The examples that come to mind have to > do ...See More

Dec 5, 2012

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VT Basically you're asking how to make happen what Abraham Lincoln said was impossible to do - make all of the people happy all of the time. Except you're asking how to get the complaininig parents to stop complaining and you're asking how to live in the same community with complaining parents who don't like how you teach.

I'd say if you wan...See MoreBasically you're asking how to make happen what Abraham Lincoln said was impossible to do - make all of the people happy all of the time. Except you're asking how to get the complaininig parents to stop complaining and you're asking how to live in the same community with complaining parents who don't like how you teach.

I'd say if you want parents to receive your teaching well, give the impression of being flexible, not inflexible. Choose carefully the hills you want to die on especially as this principal of yours sounds like a flake.

Does anybody like tests? Nobody really likes tests and if a parent says they don't want their child to ever take a test, that parent is truly crazy and there are some truly crazy people in the world. Those are parents that all of us do well to try to charm into submission. And no truly caring parent wants their child to do poorly but yes, there are very demanding people out there. We're Americans - Americans are not shy and retiring people. We don't just take what's handed out - we fight back.

If you end up in a fight with a parent, everybody loses - the teacher, the parent and the kid and the responsibility for professionalism falls on us. Never use the phrase 'pedagogically sound' to a parent because that sounds crazy to them and experts in education can't agree on what's pedagogically sound.

As I said before, we have to be salesmen as well as teachers. We have to sell our policies and practices to our adminstrators even to our flaky administrators. If you're asking how to get parents to swallow everything we do and get no flack from anybody - that's not a realistic question for the modern world especially in a country of fighters.

We're also the world's fattest country - so that makes us the most indulgent people on earth as well. We have no practice in self-denial or self-discipline and if that's going to be a policy upheld in the classroom, you have to do a lot of charming explaining and tread softly a step at a time toward less indulgence and greater responsibility.

But if you can manage to sell yourself to parents as a basically very caring teacher who errs on the side of caring about kids and wanting all kids to be successful, parents will tolerate a great deal from you. And while this can make any teacher groan, going in early or staying late and offering that extra time as 'free tutoring' can result in parents absolutely loving you even if you understandably don't love doing it.

If parents ignore you at the supermarket or Little League game, don't let them. It makes you look guilty. Go over and smile warmly and say "I don't want to interrupt your afternoon but seeing you here I did want to say hello. What a great day for a game - enjoy the day."

Be sure parents know you like their kids - or act like you like their kids. NO parent likes a teacher who seems like they don't like their kids and they'll forgive a lot too from a teacher who seems genuinely warm toward the kids. Good luck.

> > > I guess he could change the policies, but then he'd potentially be doing > so all the time and for reasons that may not be pedagogically sound. > And these are not awful, onerous policies; they're very doable for > middle school. It doesn't hurt the kids to learn to keep things > organized if they know they'll need to find things later. They get a > ton of reminders and help in this regard. > > j

Dec 8, 2012

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