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Classroom Management Chatboard

Management of Those Unwilling to Succeed

by Cody C.

Feb 21, 2011

A few day prior to this posting I was having a conversation with a senior teacher in regards to students who are very honest about their never wanting to, or unwillingness towrds, graduating from high school. Although I work with a group of students who are far more likely to drop out than the majority (EBD students), I have had student who tell me...See More

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Cody C. Steve- Thanks for the wonderful response. I have the opportunity to work with my students for seven years, and due to this, get to know them well. We have had the conversation running since day one pertaining to "what will you do if..." questions. They are living in a situation where not since they have been on earth one or more parents have had a ...See MoreSteve- Thanks for the wonderful response. I have the opportunity to work with my students for seven years, and due to this, get to know them well. We have had the conversation running since day one pertaining to "what will you do if..." questions. They are living in a situation where not since they have been on earth one or more parents have had a job. Many of their parents did not make it through school (the same school they are now attending), and from a childs perspective they seem to be doing OK.

We do not have a high school advisor who works with at-risk students. He does however do a great job setting-up kids with college plans who will attend with or without him, and were seeded to attend since the womb.

You raise good questions and provide great tips. I feel that I am doing what you suggested plus some. I will continue to open their eyes and teach what is expected of me, by me.

Thanks again. On 2/23/11, Steve wrote: > On 2/21/11, Cody C. wrote: > > I'd be tempted to ask them - gently and kindly - what they > are going to do when they drop out?? If by some miracle they > have million dollar jobs waiting for them when they drop out, > well, then, wow, I'll drop out with them. We have to > understand that they find school odious and it's then > understandable that they'd want to drop out. How many people > do you know who say they can't wait until they can retire? > That's a kind of dropping out really but most of my friends > who retire then are pretty unhappy - dropping out and > retiring both aren't all they're cracked up to be. > > When kids talk about dropping out, they're really talking > about ending the pain. School is painful for them - our > schools mine included really only reach a certain kind of > learner and the others fall through not the cracks but the > huge gaps in the system. So they want to drop out to get out > of the gap. > > But what are they going to do? Such a question can also be > painful for them because most never consider life past the > happy moment they drop out. What will they do the next day? > Make a life watching Jerry Springer? Have they heard that > jobs are pretty hard to come by these days? Are they > independently wealthy? > > I actually went through this with my own son. His very > skilled Dean of Students sympathized with his desire to drop > out but kept him in school by simply asking "What are you > going to do tomorrow when you wake up? Sit home? Watching > television? Forever?" And she asked it in a very nice and > caring tone of voice. > > Most kids who drop out didn't have a hope of going on to > college anyway and we've become a 'go to college or you're > nothing' society - sadly. If you want to keep them in school, > help them come up with a game plan. High school needs to be > part of an overall game plan or what really is the point? > High school is supposed to be leading to something. > > I don't know what community you're in but why not have some > community leaders come in and point out what opportunities > there are for high school graduates in the community. And > don't have all college-educated people come in. Schools are > far too removed from the real world we're supposed to be > preparing kids for. Have auto mechanics come in. Plumbers, > craftspeople. > > How successful are these students who want to drop out in > your school? In my experience here, the kids who drop out are > not 'unwilling' to succeed but are those who have never known > much success in school. > > Do you have an advisor our counselor appointed to > specifically work with the kids who are at risk of dropping > out? Is your faculty informed when a student has begun > talking of dropping out so they can step forward and support > the student at risk of dropping out? Often the kids who drop > out have a life that's been based in mistrust and anger and > that mistrust and anger needs to be addressed and ministered > to by a teacher or counselor that fosters trust and builds > bridges well with at-risk students. >> A few day prior to this posting I was having a conversation >> with a senior teacher in regards to students who are very >> honest about their never wanting to, or unwillingness >> towrds, graduating from high school. Although I work with >> a group of students who are far more likely to drop out >> than the majority (EBD students), I have had student who >> tell me from day one that they do not plan on graduating >> and they will do the minimal amount of work to fill the >> time for three or so years. >> >> What do you think about this situation in general? Also, >> what do you believe would be the best classroom management >> technique to use with this student (especially due to the >> fact that they try to sell the idea of dropping out to >> their peers)?

Feb 24, 2011

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Steve On 2/24/11, Cody C. wrote:

How are they 'doing ok' if no one has or has ever had a job?? And what do they say they'll do when they drop out? I mean literally do every day? I'd be interested to know. I get what you're saying about their role models though I don't get how anyone does 'ok' if no one had ever had a job.

And when they...See MoreOn 2/24/11, Cody C. wrote:

How are they 'doing ok' if no one has or has ever had a job?? And what do they say they'll do when they drop out? I mean literally do every day? I'd be interested to know. I get what you're saying about their role models though I don't get how anyone does 'ok' if no one had ever had a job.

And when they drop out, they have to be 16 - so they're no longer 'children' at 16 and shouldn't be seeing things from a 'child's perspective' anymore. And why do they want to drop out? They're missing too many Jerry Springer episodes? Joking aside, what's the draw? What's so exciting on the home front that makes them want to drop out and be home every day?

As to the best classroom management technique to work with such students, dialogue would be half of the best technique I'd think. A child's perspective can be altered and impacted on and so can a 16 year old's. If dialogue can be considered a 'classroom management technique' then having a dialogue with the entire class on the value and wisdom or lack of it in dropping it would seem a good approach to me.

But that dialogue and discussion should be open to what it is in school that they want to leave behind and another classroom management technique to keep kids in school is helping them to be successful in school. Are these kids who drop out successful students? I'd be surprised to hear that.

Did you mean management of those unwilling to graduate or unwilling to succeed?

> Steve- > Thanks for the wonderful response. I have the opportunity to > work with my students for seven years, and due to this, get to > know them well. We have had the conversation running since day > one pertaining to "what will you do if..." questions. They are > living in a situation where not since they have been on earth > one or more parents have had a job. Many of their parents did > not make it through school (the same school they are now > attending), and from a childs perspective they seem to be doing > OK. > > We do not have a high school advisor who works with at-risk > students. He does however do a great job setting-up kids with > college plans who will attend with or without him, and were > seeded to attend since the womb. > > You raise good questions and provide great tips. I feel that I > am doing what you suggested plus some. I will continue to open > their eyes and teach what is expected of me, by me. > > Thanks again. > On 2/23/11, Steve wrote: >> On 2/21/11, Cody C. wrote: >> >> I'd be tempted to ask them - gently and kindly - what they >> are going to do when they drop out?? If by some miracle they >> have million dollar jobs waiting for them when they drop out, >> well, then, wow, I'll drop out with them. We have to >> understand that they find school odious and it's then >> understandable that they'd want to drop out. How many people >> do you know who say they can't wait until they can retire? >> That's a kind of dropping out really but most of my friends >> who retire then are pretty unhappy - dropping out and >> retiring both aren't all they're cracked up to be. >> >> When kids talk about dropping out, they're really talking >> about ending the pain. School is painful for them - our >> schools mine included really only reach a certain kind of >> learner and the others fall through not the cracks but the >> huge gaps in the system. So they want to drop out to get out >> of the gap. >> >> But what are they going to do? Such a question can also be >> painful for them because most never consider life past the >> happy moment they drop out. What will they do the next day? >> Make a life watching Jerry Springer? Have they heard that >> jobs are pretty hard to come by these days? Are they >> independently wealthy? >> >> I actually went through this with my own son. His very >> skilled Dean of Students sympathized with his desire to drop >> out but kept him in school by simply asking "What are you >> going to do tomorrow when you wake up? Sit home? Watching >> television? Forever?" And she asked it in a very nice and >> caring tone of voice. >> >> Most kids who drop out didn't have a hope of going on to >> college anyway and we've become a 'go to college or you're >> nothing' society - sadly. If you want to keep them in school, >> help them come up with a game plan. High school needs to be >> part of an overall game plan or what really is the point? >> High school is supposed to be leading to something. >> >> I don't know what community you're in but why not have some >> community leaders come in and point out what opportunities >> there are for high school graduates in the community. And >> don't have all college-educated people come in. Schools are >> far too removed from the real world we're supposed to be >> preparing kids for. Have auto mechanics come in. Plumbers, >> craftspeople. >> >> How successful are these students who want to drop out in >> your school? In my experience here, the kids who drop out are >> not 'unwilling' to succeed but are those who have never known >> much success in school. >> >> Do you have an advisor our counselor appointed to >> specifically work with the kids who are at risk of dropping >> out? Is your faculty informed when a student has begun >> talking of dropping out so they can step forward and support >> the student at risk of dropping out? Often the kids who drop >> out have a life that's been based in mistrust and anger and >> that mistrust and anger needs to be addressed and ministered >> to by a teacher or counselor that fosters trust and builds >> bridges well with at-risk students. >>> A few day prior to this posting I was having a conversation >>> with a senior teacher in regards to students who are very >>> honest about their never wanting to, or unwillingness >>> towrds, graduating from high school. Although I work with >>> a group of students who are far more likely to drop out >>> than the majority (EBD students), I have had student who >>> tell me from day one that they do not plan on graduating >>> and they will do the minimal amount of work to fill the >>> time for three or so years. >>> >>> What do you think about this situation in general? Also, >>> what do you believe would be the best classroom management >>> technique to use with this student (especially due to the >>> fact that they try to sell the idea of dropping out to >>> their peers)?

Feb 25, 2011

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Rewards for middle schoolers

by jeff

Feb 23, 2011

Hi. I am a 2nd year inner city teacher struggling with class room management. For my 7th grade and possibly 8th grade class thought of having a goody bag that the 3 best kids in the class for the week could choose something from.

Anyone have ideas about what goodies I could stock it with? Want it to be desirable but not expensive.

...See More

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Jared Baldwin On 2/23/11, Jcollins wrote: > Jeff, I have taught in an inner city school for over 15 > years. In my experience, a lot of students are not motivated > by grades or praise alone. Some kids come from very rough > homes where education isn't valued at all. > > I have tried lots of rewards: homework passes, special > lunches, movie...See MoreOn 2/23/11, Jcollins wrote: > Jeff, I have taught in an inner city school for over 15 > years. In my experience, a lot of students are not motivated > by grades or praise alone. Some kids come from very rough > homes where education isn't valued at all. > > I have tried lots of rewards: homework passes, special > lunches, movies, field trips, etc. All depends on your school > and your principal support. As a team, we used to have > homework/behavior incentives each quarter. Kids who met the > requirements got to attend a field trip, movie, game day, > etc. Other kids had to go to a homework room to work on their > missing assignments. The kids really liked that. Now I teach > fifth and sixth grade. The kids sit in groups and I give out > tokens for each table having all of their homework done, good > behavior, sitting quietly, etc. At the end of the week, the > table with the most points wins. > > I have pencils, homework passes, sometimes chips, pop, water > bottles, juice boxes, fruit roll ups, candy, etc. Ask your > friends who are in business if they have free highlighters, > markers, pens, etc. A lot of kids will be happy with > anything. I also randomly give kids good notes home for > improving their grades, behavior, completing all homework, > etc. It can get rought to keep up with, so whatever you > decide, stick with it. > > I would also be interested in any other ideas people have > tried that worked and were inexpensive. > > Hope this helps, Jackie Hi Jackie,

I'm not a teacher yet and I've only had limited experience in the classroom... This semester I'm taking a classroom management course and this week we were going over a rewards system and discussing the difference between bribery and rewarding students (seems necessary, but a little tricky). It sounds like you have a really neat system, because the rewards seem for the most part, to keep the students grounded and are almost part of the whole teaching/learning process, especially when the rewards are homework passes, school supplies ect... It's great that a lot of your students have bought in and want to continue to have their educational experience evolve. If every once and a while a student gets a treat, I'm guessing that it's more special to the student. My concern w/a rewards system is that to many "goodies" could cause the student to lose focus on the importance of why they are there, which is to learn. Seems like you have balanced this process pretty well. Your use of groups/teams seems like a perfect motivator, as well! I really enjoyed reading your above post, thank you/very helpful!

Jared B

Feb 24, 2011

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jeff On Feb 23 I posted a question on what to reward middle schoolers for good behavior. I got lots of very helpful responses and I just wanted to thank all of you for your help!

Now I just need to sit back and decide what both feels right to me and what is doable in the long term, in terms of expenses and organization.

Jeff

...See More

Feb 25, 2011

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Returning Quizzes & Tests to Students

by Dale

Feb 23, 2011

I am looking for some ideas for a classroom procedure for returning graded quizzes and tests to students that minimizes lost instruction time. There must be a less time consuming way that protects student privacy than just handing back graded papers to each individual student?

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Prof. Howard Seeman On 2/23/11, Dale wrote: > > I am looking for some ideas for a classroom procedure for > returning graded quizzes and tests to students that > minimizes lost instruction time. There must be a less time > consuming way that protects student privacy than just > handing back graded papers to each individual student?

The best ...See More

Feb 24, 2011

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GINA On 2/23/11, Jo wrote: > But Donna, that idea doesn't protect privacy which was one of > the stipulations. > > Order your papers according to your seating chart. Then all you > have to do is quickly walk around the room and hand each student > the paper. Some elementary teachers use number systems and you > could have students l...See MoreOn 2/23/11, Jo wrote: > But Donna, that idea doesn't protect privacy which was one of > the stipulations. > > Order your papers according to your seating chart. Then all you > have to do is quickly walk around the room and hand each student > the paper. Some elementary teachers use number systems and you > could have students line up by number (this can be a fast > procedure once it is learned. > > > On 2/23/11, Donna Kosloff wrote: >> May I suggest baskets. In the classroom have a set space for >> in, out, and correction baskets.The children should if in >> groups have a group leader that collects their table papers and >> places them in the basket for quizzes. The in box is where >> students place their work done for each lesson, regardless if >> they finished it or not. Sometimes blank sheets may be in the >> "in box: and that helps the teacher track who is working and >> who is not. Work is corrected from the "In Box" and placed in >> the "Corrections" Box where students pick up their work. >> Classroom free time is for only those who have finished the >> work in the corrections box so you know work will be done >> without much discussion. >> >> >> First understand that I teach 4th grade. On Friday if I have tests or quizzes to hand out, I have what I call a test folder that each student gets at the start of the school year. They are all red and labled with a number for each student. When I put their grades in my grade book, I then put all their tests into the test folder and give it to each student. They take them home to correct and get them signed by their parents. When they are returned, I have a filing system in my class for all returned tests and quizzes. This makes my life a little eaiser and the students know where their tests are all year long if they would like to look at them. Good luck! Gina >> >> On 2/23/11, Dale wrote: >>> >>> I am looking for some ideas for a classroom procedure for >>> returning graded quizzes and tests to students that >>> minimizes lost instruction time. There must be a less time >>> consuming way that protects student privacy than just >>> handing back graded papers to each individual student?

May 22, 2011

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3P Grading System

by D. McCarty

Feb 23, 2011

I came across the 3P grading system on a coaching blog that I frequent a lot. I have read a little on this topic, but do not have a lot of knowledge on it.

Do any of you use this system or have any knowledge of it?

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Jared Baldwin On 2/23/11, Tracy A. wrote: > I hadn't heard of this particular program, but have seen similar > ones. Reflection is an important part of a professionals career > and think that this would be a great way to teach students to self > reflect. We are doing something similar with our writing program. > The students complete a writing ass...See More

Feb 23, 2011

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Anthony On 2/23/11, D. McCarty wrote: > I came across the 3P grading system on a coaching blog that > I frequent a lot. I have read a little on this topic, but > do not have a lot of knowledge on it. > > Do any of you use this system or have any knowledge of it?

I was looking through the outline for the 3P grading system and I do th...See More

Feb 26, 2011

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Dealing with Classroom/Club/Team Cliques

by Chris C.

Feb 23, 2011

Hello all, I am writing to you in this forum because I am curious about some of your best practices for dealing with social cliques within the classroom and/or athletic teams/school clubs that you’ve taught/coached/supervised. As a teacher and coach myself, I have experienced some difficult scenarios in managing personalities where stark contrast...See More

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Tracy A. Hi Chris,

I don't know if this happens as much with boys as it does with girls, but I have had to deal with this on my girls volleyball team and in the classroom with girls. I, being pretty competitive, love being an athlete and part of a team! I tried to tell my players that they don't have to be friends outside of school, but on the cou...See More

Feb 24, 2011

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D. McCarty Chris,

I coach football at the collegiate level and we do a lot of team building activities to get our guys to know each other better which in turn makes them care about each other more. We talk to our team all the time about this importance of building relationships throughout their lifes. I'll share some of the things we do to maybe spa...See MoreChris,

I coach football at the collegiate level and we do a lot of team building activities to get our guys to know each other better which in turn makes them care about each other more. We talk to our team all the time about this importance of building relationships throughout their lifes. I'll share some of the things we do to maybe spark an idea with you.

During our fall camp we have dinner with a teammate. Each night we post a list for who is suppose to eat with who. This way they get to know other teammates and share conversation over dinner. Could you do this at lunch with your team?

We assign each of our incoming freshman a "big brother". It is someone to take them under their wing and show them around campus or answer any questions that they might have.

We take an afternoon off from practice and take the entire team out to a local golf course to play nine holes. We as coaches split up the teams and make them as diverse as possible.

Now we are in our off season and we have created Pride Groups. Each of our 7 coaches has their own pride group. Once again we split up the groups and made them as diverse as possible. What these groups do is up to the individual coach.

My group is going to an elementary school this Friday for an hour and a half to help with a reading program. I'll have them out to my house for dinner. We may challenge another pride group to a baketball game. It really doesn't matter what we are doing. The point is to get our guys to know each other better, and more importantly to respect each other's backgrounds and make up better.

I think if you brainstorm a little you can come up with some great ideas for your students. I hope this was helpful.

On 2/23/11, Chris C. wrote: > Hello all, > I am writing to you in this forum because I am curious > about some of your best practices for dealing with social > cliques within the classroom and/or athletic teams/school > clubs that you’ve taught/coached/supervised. As a teacher > and coach myself, I have experienced some difficult > scenarios in managing personalities where stark contrasts > exist. These behaviors are more evident in middle school > than they are in high school generally speaking, but exist > in both levels of education at a certain capacity. My > question for all of you reading this is what to do in the > event that students are grouping up and segregating > themselves from each other. This provides a lack of > camaraderie between classmates/teammates/club members, and > makes for a volatile environment which no teacher should > encourage.

Feb 24, 2011

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Professor Seeman

by Dr. Lee

Feb 24, 2011

lease reply to posts where people have asked you questions and help the board with your insight instead of just trying to sell books!

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Prof. Howard Seeman On 2/24/11, Dr. Lee wrote: > Please reply to posts where people have asked you questions > and help the board with your insight instead of just trying > to sell books!

I will/am. But, I cannot solve a problem in ONE email. I will try to give them the direction to solve it, but then all I have to say about it is in my book, in most...See More

Feb 24, 2011

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Distance Learning, E-learning, Urgent topics

by Nikita Migushev

Feb 27, 2011

Dear Colleagues, I am writing this post to ask for your assistance. I am a postgraduate student in Russian institute in Saint- Petersburg. I am about to write my thesis concerning Distance learning and E-learning in foreign education. I investigate theories, experience, problems and their solutions concerning using ICT in distance learning. What I ...See More

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Nikita Migushev Hi, Steve!

I apologize for slow response and thank you for your attention to this topic, this is really important for me.

Here is what I would like to say concerning your questions:

What I am doing right now is trying to clearly formulate the theme of my research. I am looking at different directions that the investigatio...See More

Mar 6, 2011

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Steve LCP in distance > learning seems interesting for me because it really > looks like this can make distance learning more > effective.

How can it make it more effective? Can you operationalize any of the 14 Principles? I need a concrete example to understand.

If we speak about the 14 Learner-Centered > Principles of the ...See MoreLCP in distance > learning seems interesting for me because it really > looks like this can make distance learning more > effective.

How can it make it more effective? Can you operationalize any of the 14 Principles? I need a concrete example to understand.

If we speak about the 14 Learner-Centered > Principles of the APA Work Group on Educational Affairs > to my mind some of them can be applied in distance > learning.

Can be applied or are being applied now?

> Still my question is: “Do you understand > Learner-centered learning to be directly correlated > with the 14 Learner-Centered Principles of the APA Work > Group on Educational Affairs or there are other > definitions and factors developed by other > practitioners that make learning learner-centered?”.

Learner-centered learning is a very broad phrase and in the States there is no agreed-upon definition of what 'learner-center learning' really means. There's also no agreed-upon way to achieve learner-centered education.

I think of my class as learner-centered. To achieve that, I do things like - encourage a sense of community. I'm warm and friendly to my students. I encourage discussion and dialogue between myself and my students. I make changed in my curriculum, my teaching practices and my policies to meet the needs of my students. I grade generously because I believe grading does not help to build a learner-centered environment. I don't give homework on weekends or holidays because I want to build a learner-centered classroom. I could go on and on - the list is long but that's some of what I do to try to achieve a learner-centered classroom.

By the way, I had never heard of the 14 Principles before looking them online in response to your post. Please don't think I knew about the 14 Principles or that I use them but I do know about learner-centered classrooms and I do want my classroom to be one. > > > > > -The question that I already mentioned above: “What do > you understand by learner-centered (student-centered > learning) in US? I answered that question above.

-Do you use learner-centered approach > in distance learning in US?

I'd say no to that question. Online education here is a means to an end. Schools and colleges have to offer it to stay competitive - the public here is demanding online/distance education. NO ONE thinks it's a better way to educate anyone. What concerns me with distance education is the software - making sure it works. Good distance educators write warm and friendly e-mails to their students. Teaching is really the human connection between people and distance education lacks real connection.

-Do you think this theme is > topical? I don't think it' s a practical topic.

-What other topical subjects can you advice me > concerning distance learning or using ICT in learning?

Online classes are actually quite difficult precisely because there is no human connection. I'd suggest researching among students to find out from them what would make their online education better. > > Please, provide some references If possible. > > I would like to thank you once again for you time and > attention. I am very pleased to talk to you. > > > > > >> The 14 Learner-Centered Principles of the APA Work >> Group on Educational Affairs were never intended to >> be applied to learning at the college level or to >> online education. Those 14 principles were intended >> for use in primary and secondary education as the >> U.S. tried to find its way through school redesign >> and school reform. >> >> They have little applicability to online education >> which is voluntary versus primary and secondary >> education which is mandatory. That said, I'd also say >> of the 14 Principles - they're what we call >> 'gobblety-gook' - they're high-sounding words, all >> encompassing phrases that have little real >> applicability to anything. The phrase 'Work Group' in >> the States means the findings are informal ones. A >> 'Work Group' here is a title given to a group that >> has no other title. >> >> However would you test for the presence of all 14 >> points??? What experiment is it you're envisioning? >> And you say 'foreign education' - do you mean >> distance education in the U.S? There are many nations >> now using online education. >> >> What fundamental question is it you're trying to >> answer? Is distance learning in the U.S. effective? >> >> Let me ask this. How in Russia do you test for the >> effectiveness of education? Or how you apply the 14 >> Principles of the APA Work Group to a Russian school? >> What experiment would you design to determine whether >> the 14 Principles were in place and working in any >> Russian school or Russian online course? >>> >

Mar 6, 2011

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How important is it that students LIKE your class?

by Jeff

Mar 3, 2011

I think my initial answer would usually be: not very important at all.

However, I have been playing around with this question for a little while now. If the energy in the classroom is high, and students are excited about what they are learning because it is: 1) fun, 2) interesting, 3) applicable to their own life in some way, 4) challengi...See More

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Cindy Jeff,

I thought that your post was interesting because in my school the administration places a heavy value on how much students say they like a given class and / or teacher and I’ve been wondering lately if the correlation they find between liking a class and achievement are accurate. In my own teaching experience, students sometimes a...See More

Jul 30, 2011

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Brian B I have to say that a student liking my class is important. I feel like it is especially important if you teach a course that has drier material because you have to keep the students motivated some way. Some classes and subjects lend themselves to students interest just because of the nature of the material. However, not all courses are going to be ...See More

Aug 2, 2011

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Charts

by JF

Mar 4, 2011

I teach Middle School and High School Spanish and have found that ironically elementary style charts can be utilized to track behavior. I have rowdy 8th graders and I have a large chart with their names posted in the front of the room. When someone is disruptive or breaks a class rule, I place a sad face sticker in his or her column. I don't stop t...See More

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social skill lessons

by Heather

Mar 4, 2011

I'm looking for some creative lesson ideas for the following social skill topics (grades 4-5):

open & closed communication respecting personal space/boundaries intentional & unintentional contact accepting "no" win-win conflict resolution ignoring misbehaviors of others

Thanks in advance for your creativeness. :) Heather

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