I am a not very experienced teacher. I have been working as a teacher for only three years and I have a lot problems with discipline, such as people talking who would not stop. Students are also disrespectful. I would like to know what I can do to to improve the situation. I appreciate any advice.
While you're looking on the web, check out my "Discipline" page:
[link removed]
You'll find both the philosophy behind this particular style of "discipline," and a way to practically apply it.
I do believe you can learn important things from the research you're doing, as I believe that effective "discipline" or classroom management can be taught. (One of America's problems is that teachers aren't effectively prepared in their credential programs - but they can be!)
While there may not be a "one size fits all" approach, there are definitely approaches that work much better than others. Some of those, I would argue, will work with EVERYONE better than any other approach. (For example, compare traditional/punitive/strict discipline with loving kindness/mutual respect/high expectations - the latter will work much more powerfully ... and with many more kids than the former.)
I was very happy to get your advice. I am currently working at an University in Colombia, South America. I just had a very bad incident this week spurring from an student I had to report because of his contant talking, whistling in class and his mocking me. This took great dimensions and went to my superiors. The whole class is complaining about me and they make up false accusations and complain regarding my methodology,that I pick on certain students and that they do not understand when I know explanations are clear and I know that the problem is that they do not study. They just complain because I am demanding. I really wanted to keep this job because I just got my Master´s degree but I do not have any experience at the university level and it is very hard to get jobs at universties if you do not have experience, and anywhere else, for that matter. Right now, I am doubting I will be here next semester.
I was very interested about the book you mentioned, but I think it is going to be difficult to get it here. I also tried to get into the link but there is a sign that I cannot type in my computer, the one right after the slash. I recognize that I have to read and get informed on relation to discipline. I would be very grateful if you can send me the information, somehow. Thank you very much again.
On 4/25/10, Prof. Seeman wrote: > On 4/24/10, Adriana wrote: >> I am a not very experienced teacher. I have been working as >> a teacher for only three years and I have a lot problems >> with discipline, such as people talking who would not stop. >> Students are also disrespectful. I would like to know what >> I can do to to improve the situation. I appreciate any >> advice. >> >> Adriana > > I think that this can be helpful to you: > The book and Training Video: PREVENTING Classroom Discipline > Problems > > If you can get this book and video: [they are in many > libraries, so you don't have to buy them] email me and I can > refer you to the sections of the book and video [that > demonstrates the effective vs. the ineffective teacher] that > can help you. > > > If your library does not have them, you can get them at: > > [link removed]
Just wondering if I should address this, or let it go. He is in 6th grade and has been an excellent student for most of the year. However, lately, he seems to be trying to show off in class a bit. I am a new teacher and would appreciate any advice. THANK YOU
But if you prohibit it, or throw up a lo...See MoreHumor is a great way to deal with slang. As is talking about it, studying it, using it as a teaching moment, creating assignments (enjoyable, not punitive) about its history and etymology....
All the above will help kids view it as a sociological phenomenon rather than as a status booster.
But if you prohibit it, or throw up a lot of scared or judgmental energy around it, you will only succeed in making its influence LARGER in their lives. Ever hear the song "Never Say No" from The Fantasticks? Here are the lyrics:
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Dog's got to bark, a mule's got to bray. Soldiers must fight and preachers must pray. And children, I guess, must get their own way The minute that you say no.
Why did the kids pour jam on the cat? Raspberry jam all over the cat? Why should the kids do something like that, When all that we said was no?
My son was once afraid to swim. The water made him wince. Until I said he mustn't swim: S'been swimmin' ever since!
S'been swimmin' ever since!
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Dog's got to bark, a mule's got to bray. Soldiers must fight and preachers must pray. And children, I guess, must get their own way The minute that you say no.
Why did the kids put beans in their ears? No one can hear with beans in their ears. After a while the reason appears. They did it cause we said no.
Your daughter brings a young man in, Says "Do you like him, Pa?" Just say that he's a fool and then: You've got a son-in-law!
You've got a son-in-law!
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Sure as the June comes right after May! Sure as the night comes right after day! You can be sure the devil's to pay The minute that you say no.
TomBTW, I'm talking about conversational slang, or slang used in very informal writing assignments. AND I draw the line at spoken slang that is unsupportive in any way (racist, sexist...).
On 5/01/10, skylark2868 wrote: > I teach in Mississippi, and I just want to let everyone know, > not every Mississippi school uses corporal punishment. We do > not in the school district where I work. We conference with the > student, with parents, have Saturday detention, have in-school > suspension, out-of-school suspension , and if needed, > expulsion. We have not use corporal punishment for years. Our > school officials saw that (1) it was wrong, (2) it accomplished > nothing, and (3) was degrading. > On 4/29/10, ToH wrote: >> (link to news article)
I know he has trouble with his dad at home and I do think he has emotional problems. I have probably not been as "strict" with his behavior as I need to be. Instead, I've tried talking with him to see what is going on. Today, I finally took away recess, but it did not seem to help. When I spoke with him, he said, "I like having you as my teacher. I like your class because it's really fun and you are nice. I know why I'm in trouble- I was talking when I wasn't supposed to."
1. Stop talking, cock your head slightly (As you "wait" and "listen"), and raise your hand up (as you would do when taking an oath). Look out over the heads of your students, and not in the direction of the talker. Wait. Listen. He'll get the message and stop talking. Continue.
2. If he starts up again, walk by his desk, get eye contact, and do a little "Can you support me?" gesture - hand toward him, toward you, toward him again, then fingers to your mouth. Your face will communicate your thought, "Can you support me, please?" You can do all this as you continue to talk.
3. He continues. This time, get his attention (walking near him, again, or catch his eye during your talking). Point to him, then point to an empty chair. Do it twice in a row. Look at him while thinking, "Move please. Now. Thanks."
All my best,
Tom
On 4/29/10, Tom wrote: > Vanessa, > > You could check out what I do at... > > [link removed].
I think that this can be helpful to you: The book and Training Video: PREVENTING Classroom Discipline Problems
If you can get this book and video: [they are in many libraries, so you don't have to buy them] email me and I can refer you to the sections of the book and video [that demonstrates the effective vs. the ineffective teacher] that can help you.
If your library does not have them, you can get them at:
[link removed]
that are also used at this online course: [link removed]
See: Reviews at: [link removed]
If you cannot get the book or video, email me anyway, and I will try to help.
Best regards,
Howard
Howard Seeman, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus, City Univ. of New York
Today, after lunch, they argued with me and were rude. I know t...See MoreMy class is out of control after lunch on Fridays. I don't know what happens, but they get too chatty and can be disrespectful. I also have not been as consistent with discipline as I need to be. It is my first year teaching and I'm still trying to get a handle on everything.
Today, after lunch, they argued with me and were rude. I know this was wrong, but I didn't do anything about it. Normally, I would issue a consequence, but I was just too burnt out and tired. I need to get through the next 29 days, but I'm not sure how.
One thought, When inappropriate behavior occurs, you could say, "Thinking time. put your heads down on your desk and NO talking." Turn off the lights if there is some light or windows in the room, and insist on quiet for a few minutes. Then say, "Heads up. Let's start over. I need you to...."
I know it's nearing the end of the year, and as tired and overwhelmed as you feel (been there), keep going strong to the end.
What subject is it? What are some of the consequences you can issue? Are you at a K-6, K-8, or 6-8 school? Is it this particular group of students that causes a problem (ie do other teachers report problems with these students) or is it just because of the hour and the day? Can you talk to other teachers to see how they handle this part of the day?
On 4/30/10, Kelly wrote: > My class is out of control after lunch on Fridays. I don't > know what happens, but they get too chatty and can be > disrespectful. I also have not been as consistent with > discipline as I need to be. It is my first year teaching > and I'm still trying to get a handle on everything. > > Today, after lunch, they argued with me and were rude. I > know this was wrong, but I didn't do anything about it. > Normally, I would issue a consequence, but I was just too > burnt out and tired. I need to get through the next 29 > days, but I'm not sure how. > > thanks
APA. Some parents spank their child not only to punish him or her but to change their child’s behavior. Does spanking have that effect?
Dr. Kazdin. Spanking is not a very effective strategy. It does not teach children new behaviors or what to do in place of the problem behavior. It is also not useful in suppressing the problematic behavior beyond the moment. Research indicates the rate of misbehavior does not decline, in fact, the problem behavior returns, even if the parent escalates the punishment.
APA. What other types of physical punishment do some parents use?
Dr. Kazdin. The task is to help children change their behavior, and physical punishment is not needed to accomplish that. Developing positive opposite behaviors, i.e., the desired behaviors that the parent wants, is much more effective.
APA. What are some of the alternative methods for disciplining children that parents would be well-advised to employ? How do these alternative methods work? Why are they more effective? Where can parents find resources to learn these alternative methods?
Dr. Kazdin. Positive reinforcement for alternative behaviors is extremely effective. This is not just rewards or points but the use of antecedents (what comes before behavior), behavior (shaping and gradually developing, repeated practice), and consequences (e.g., specially delivered praise).There is a whole area of research (applied behavior analysis) devoted to this and some parenting books, too. See [link removed]
APA. What is the difference between physical punishment and child abuse?
Dr. Kazdin. Child abuse is defined individually by the states in the U.S. and the definitions vary—some focus on where on the body the child is hit; others focus on whether objects are used, and so on. The key issue is that moderate- to-severe physical punishment has all sorts of long-term negative consequences for the child including in the areas of academic performance and mental and physical health. One need not abuse a child to achieve those very unfortunate effects.
APA. Are there social, environmental or economic stressors that may cause a parent or caregiver to be more likely to use physical punishment with children?
Dr. Kazdin. Yes, stressors can contribute to abuse; parent expectations for what the child can and ought to do can contribute, too. I have worked with parents who abused their infants because they would not stop crying. Another parent beat a 10-year-old boy because he forgot one item on a grocery list when he was sent to the store by himself. Both the crying and forgetting something have a technical name in psychology: They are called “normal.”
APA. What are the effects on children who are disciplined with physical punishment? For instance, are they more likely to be aggressive with their siblings, peers or others?
Dr. Kazdin. Research on very mild, infrequent spanking (e.g., one time/month) is inconclusive. When a parent moves beyond that to moderate or severe physical punishment, there are all sorts of untoward consequences—educational delays, psychological disorders and physical disorders, too.
APA. What do you say to the parent who says, “My parents spanked me, and I turned out OK?”
Dr. Kazdin. There are people who smoke cigarettes and live to be 100 but that does not refute the findings that smoking is likely to lead to early death. Exceptions are interesting (some people who contract HIV do not get AIDS) but they do not alter the finding and it would be foolhardy to think that one is an exception.
APA. What kinds of research would provide more conclusive evidence on the effects of physical punishment of children and provide insight into alternative forms of discipline?
Dr. Kazdin. There is a good deal of research that has already been conducted that shows that anything beyond very mild physical punishment does not work in the long term and has negative consequences. While not all child development experts agree, my advice to parents is to avoid physical punishment altogether; there are simply more effective ways to teach and discipline your child.
The American Psychological Association, in Washington, D.C., is the largest scientific and professional organization representing psychology in the United States and is the world's largest association of psychologists. APA's membership includes more than 152,000 researchers, educators, clinicians, consultants and students. Through its divisions in 54 subfields of psychology and affiliations with 60 state, territorial and Canadian provincial associations, APA works to advance psychology as a science, as a profession and as a means of promoting health, education and human welfare.
You can tell what a teacher's expectations are by how their students act. If students act out or treat each other or the teacher disrespectfully, that means that the teacher's ACTUAL expectations are low - regardless of that teacher's words or rules. "What you allow reveals your actual expectations."
HOW a teacher treats students reveals their expectations of human beings. If a teacher uses punishments and rewards to "control" students, their expectations of human beings are low: "Humans will only act respectfully and responsibly if there is a negative or positive consequence to keep them in line."
Contrast that with the following: "Students are perfectly capable of behaving respectfully and responsibly - without my needing to punish or reward them."
I've found that the most joyful, collaborative, and rewarding classroom is that of the teacher who has high expectations of both students AND humans.
All my best,
Tom
PS: Not everyone is trying to sell a book. My website page is 100% free. (:-)
On 5/11/10, Craig Seganti wrote: > > The idea that students can bring bad behaviors into the classroom > is one accepted by what I now term the failure industry of low > expectations, an epidemic in the U.S. . You absolutely do not > have to tolerate disruptive behavior in any classroom, you just > haven't been given the proper tools to show you how to achieve > the accountability on students' part and leverage to make it > happen. > > Craig Seganti, author of Classroom Discipline 101
On 5/16/10, Basia wrote: > Thanks to all for the responses and the interesting debate. > As a small update, all of last week , I have remained calm > and consistent. When my boys(or any other child) act out, > they are given a choice to fix their behaviour or to step > outside and think about it. If they choose to step outside, > they can return when they wish to participate again. No one > has chosen to go out into the hallway yet. > If they repeat the behaviour, there are no more choices. > They step outside, get a DT during which they either > revisit proper behaviour by acting it out or by writing > about it. Additionally, if there were an extreme behaviour, > then it would merit an immediate removal. In just one week, > the improvement has been amazing. > With the calling out, I have been very consistent with > responding ONLY to the raised hands and once again, > improvement is high. > My biggest challenege is to remain calm and consistent. It > doesn't come naturally but brings many rewards...at least > with this class. Now, all I need to do is keep it up till > the end of June. > Thx again.
cI know I'm a little late to the game, but I wanted to put in my two cents worth if you don't mind a slightly different perspective. On occasion, kids need the opportunity to just blurt out and it can be done in a very productive manner - with very specific procedures. These are called shout outs, and it allows those kids that need to constantly blu...See MoreI know I'm a little late to the game, but I wanted to put in my two cents worth if you don't mind a slightly different perspective. On occasion, kids need the opportunity to just blurt out and it can be done in a very productive manner - with very specific procedures. These are called shout outs, and it allows those kids that need to constantly blurt out answers to have their need satisfied without disrupting class. At first when I read your post it sounded like the kids were talking to each other regardless of your topic, but after reading your response it seems like they just aren't raising their hands. If they are just talking and are off topic, please ignore the following. Ask short one word answer kind of questions and simply say, "give me a shout out." Of course, with any procedure you need to practice first so kids know your expectations - you may only shout out once, you may only shout out when asked, or whatever other expectations you have. I find this works particularly well in Math where there are a lot of short answer type of questions. If it is a Communications class, offer it as a round table where the students have open discussion without raising their hand. These kids are 11-12 graders, practically adults (I think I saw that in one of the posts. Sorry if I'm incorrect.) They need to practice in an environment where there isn't going to always be a leader calling on them to speak at appropriate times. They need to learn to really listen to each other and respond in kind. Give them that opportunity to practice by putting that responsibility on them. Of course procedures need to be set and parameters need to be addressed, but it isn't the end of the world when a person doesn't raise their hand to speak. Show them a clip news pundits shouting over each other without anyone really listening. Let them know this is how class feels when students don't raise their hand to take turns talking. Everyone is angry, no one is listening, and no one ever comes to consensus or solutions because they simply won't take turns.
Anyway, as we all know, each individual class is its own culture, and I find myself doing things different in many ways in all the classes. Something that works for 3rd period may not work in 6th period. When I have had a few kids over in another period to help or combining classes for rehearsals a few days before a concert, things tend to go downhill. Kids want to point out things that are different in their class. They have to show off their "skills" in front of the kids that haven't heard them play. They want to talk to the kid they know but just haven't seen in band. Etcetera...
Is this something that should be expected when I combine classes, or should I have done a better job of prepping the kids about how to act before I combined them? I know things usually go down the drain musically when combining classes, but does it have to be this way behaviorally? Would this be an issue if my classroom management in general was stronger, or is this just a case of a "foreign entity" entering the ecosystem kind of thing?
While you're looking on the web, check out my "Discipline" page:
[link removed]
You'll find both the philosophy behind this particular style of "discipline," and a way to practically apply it.
I do believe you can learn important things from the research you're doing, as I believe that effective "discipl...See More