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High School English Teachers Chatboard

Test retake--what's your opinion?

by msteacher

Oct 8, 2012

I gave an open note test to my 7th grade reading class. These notes were on the ActivBoard from which the student was to copy. I did various activities throughout the course of the notes to check for understanding before deciding to test them.

I was greatly surprised to find out several students failed the open note test, which was true/f...See More

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marjoryt I had a similar experience with my college freshmen this past week, on a discussion question test. They were upset to GET a discussion question - thinking that I'm supposed to only give objective questions.

The skill set for objective questions is completely different than discussion questions, and it's VERY possible your students have nev...See More

Oct 20, 2012

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Beccie On 10/08/12, msteacher wrote:

> I do allow students to re-test, but I make it more difficult for them. I notify their parents so they know their child needs to re-test. Then students must come in before or after school to re-test. Their final grade cannot be higher than 90. I do this because I want students to learn responsibility for ...See More

Jul 24, 2013

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Getting my students to read a book they're not interested in

by Erika

Oct 11, 2012

I'm teaching a 9th grade English class at an alternative high school. All of my students failed 9th grade last year. My county has a curriculum and lessons I must use. Though I change the lessons around to include fun activities, I have to teach the stories and books laid out in the curriculum. My students hate the book we're reading because they a...See More

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Sara On 10/11/12, Erika wrote:

Teachers at all schools are asking that question not just at alternative schools and nobody seems to have a magic answer. Some people including me have come to believe that some kids simply cannot do homework. Why doesn't matter so much as accepting that reality does. I believe that homework can hurt some student...See MoreOn 10/11/12, Erika wrote:

Teachers at all schools are asking that question not just at alternative schools and nobody seems to have a magic answer. Some people including me have come to believe that some kids simply cannot do homework. Why doesn't matter so much as accepting that reality does. I believe that homework can hurt some students much more than it helps.

But that's not your students I'm speaking of - I don't know your students and your community but here's a question. If they read this book last year - and for inane reasons the curriculum requires them now to read it again, why push that? Why must they reread it?? I understand you have to go through some of the motions of teaching or reteaching it but you give the fact that they read it last year as the reason they don't want to read it this year.

But even if you would forgive them the rereading (why not if they've already read it?) you still have to reteach it - why not approach it from the angle of 'why do you hate this book?' No author would tell you that everybody must love their writing. No teacher should believe that any one book is to be beloved by all. I actively dislike Hemingway's books and short stories and I abhor Joyce Carol Oates's short story about Arnold Friend - it's well written and a work of genius but I HATE that story nonetheless.

If you ask me why I hate that short story and I have been asked that in various workshops, a lively discussion always ensues around several valid questions - are we allowed to hate otherwise excellent writing? Why do we hate it? Do we fear it - is that the reason we hate it? Does it hit too close to home? Does it hit too far from home and seem unrealistic to us?

Why do they hate the book? What should be different about this book? Instead of a 'what happened on page 200, maybe ask - what do you hate most about this book? Is there one single character that you admire at all?

How are you teaching the book? As a classic work that everyone must know and love? I'd be very interested to know why they hate it - this book is admired across the world but so is Hemingway and I hate his writing...

Kids who've failed English usually don't respond well to worksheets - many alternative schools look past the traditional worksheets. But if you're not allowed to look past worksheets, shorten them, amend them.

If they're begging you to read it in class, it might also be a signal that they can't read the book - many students in alternative schools have very weak reading skills. And these kids have often been failing through all their years of school - they've never known much success in school and the threat of bad grades is one they're very used to and they're unmoved by it.

Einstein once said "Why do we do the same things over and over and expect a different result?" They've been threatened with bad grades before, they've been failed before - if we do that again, why would it work to motivate them this time?

How fast do you expect them to read the book? Weak readers are slow readers. Maybe they really do hate the book but weak readers tend to say "I don't like the book" because it hurts too much to say "I don't read well." Kids who don't read well most often feel dumb and sometimes they've been told they are dumb.

Sometimes it helps to think outside the box and sometimes we need to teach outside the box if we're really going to try to reach the kids where they're at.

> they refuse to read, even though they > know it'll negatively affect their grade. They've > repeatedly asked me if we can read the book in class, but I > don't have time to do so because this is an accelerated > program (they will finish the entire 9th grade curriculum > by the end of the semester). Though I read parts of the > book to teach a lesson in class, there just isn't enough > time to read the entire book in class. My question is: How > do I get my students to read this book at home?

Oct 11, 2012

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I'd be more pragmatic.. Why are they reading the same book again? They failed this class last year..so they have to repeat it.

What if I refuse to read it? You'll fail again.. make sure they can't make a decent grade without reading the book.

Prior to an F for the year, you'll get detention for refusing to do homework, calls to parents and Fs on first w...See MoreWhy are they reading the same book again? They failed this class last year..so they have to repeat it.

What if I refuse to read it? You'll fail again.. make sure they can't make a decent grade without reading the book.

Prior to an F for the year, you'll get detention for refusing to do homework, calls to parents and Fs on first work/tests and then quarterly grades.

Failure to read at home should NOT NOT NOT mean casstime to read.. that is rewarding bad behavior.

Try having discussions in class and requiring all to participate. If not everyone can talk every day, maybe requre 3 comments per week, something written to be turned in daily, etc.

On 10/11/12, Sara wrote: > On 10/11/12, Erika wrote: > > Teachers at all schools are asking that question not just at > alternative schools and nobody seems to have a magic answer. > Some people including me have come to believe that some kids > simply cannot do homework. Why doesn't matter so much as > accepting that reality does. I believe that homework can hurt > some students much more than it helps. > > But that's not your students I'm speaking of - I don't know > your students and your community but here's a question. If > they read this book last year - and for inane reasons the > curriculum requires them now to read it again, why push that? > Why must they reread it?? I understand you have to go through > some of the motions of teaching or reteaching it but you give > the fact that they read it last year as the reason they don't > want to read it this year. > > But even if you would forgive them the rereading (why not if > they've already read it?) you still have to reteach it - why > not approach it from the angle of 'why do you hate this book?' > No author would tell you that everybody must love their > writing. No teacher should believe that any one book is to be > beloved by all. I actively dislike Hemingway's books and short > stories and I abhor Joyce Carol Oates's short story about > Arnold Friend - it's well written and a work of genius but I > HATE that story nonetheless. > > If you ask me why I hate that short story and I have been > asked that in various workshops, a lively discussion always > ensues around several valid questions - are we allowed to hate > otherwise excellent writing? Why do we hate it? Do we fear it - > is that the reason we hate it? Does it hit too close to home? > Does it hit too far from home and seem unrealistic to us? > > Why do they hate the book? What should be different about this > book? Instead of a 'what happened on page 200, maybe ask - > what do you hate most about this book? Is there one single > character that you admire at all? > > How are you teaching the book? As a classic work that everyone > must know and love? I'd be very interested to know why they > hate it - this book is admired across the world but so is > Hemingway and I hate his writing... > > Kids who've failed English usually don't respond well to > worksheets - many alternative schools look past the > traditional worksheets. But if you're not allowed to look past > worksheets, shorten them, amend them. > > If they're begging you to read it in class, it might also be a > signal that they can't read the book - many students in > alternative schools have very weak reading skills. And these > kids have often been failing through all their years of > school - they've never known much success in school and the > threat of bad grades is one they're very used to and they're > unmoved by it. > > Einstein once said "Why do we do the same things over and over > and expect a different result?" They've been threatened with > bad grades before, they've been failed before - if we do that > again, why would it work to motivate them this time? > > How fast do you expect them to read the book? Weak readers are > slow readers. Maybe they really do hate the book but weak > readers tend to say "I don't like the book" because it hurts > too much to say "I don't read well." Kids who don't read well > most often feel dumb and sometimes they've been told they are > dumb. > > Sometimes it helps to think outside the box and sometimes we > need to teach outside the box if we're really going to try to > reach the kids where they're at. > > > > >> they refuse to read, even though they >> know it'll negatively affect their grade. They've >> repeatedly asked me if we can read the book in class, but I >> don't have time to do so because this is an accelerated >> program (they will finish the entire 9th grade curriculum >> by the end of the semester). Though I read parts of the >> book to teach a lesson in class, there just isn't enough >> time to read the entire book in class. My question is: How >> do I get my students to read this book at home?

Nov 26, 2012

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Need High School English Teachers For Survey

by Lisa Thibodeaux

Oct 28, 2012

Hi, friends --

I'm in need of some high school English teachers willing to take a 10-15 minute survey on grading practices.

Would appreciate it so much!! Lisa

[link removed]

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Novel Good ;luck with your survey. Unfortunately, it seems to be aimed at US teachers only, so it does not seem very helpful for me to respond :-)

Oct 30, 2012

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Toying with a somewhat radical teaching idea

by J Hunt

Nov 16, 2012

Instead of creating a long multiple-choice-and-short-essay semester final -- well four of them, actually, for three preps and a co-op class -- what if I told students it's THEIR job to show me what they've learned this semester? I mean something like a portfolio, a reflection essay, a project or conference or display that they can set before me and...See More

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retired If I were a student in your class, I would hate you forever if you assigned such a thing to me. You are the teacher/evaluator in this arrangement- you are supposed to keep up with my progress. If it's open to interpretation at all, I will do the least amount possible that I believe will net me a passing grade. Reflection? I hate the term- it's just...See More

Dec 4, 2012

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Still Teaching After All These Years On 12/04/12, retired wrote: > If I were a student in your class, I would hate you forever if you > assigned such a thing to me. You are the teacher/evaluator in this > arrangement- you are supposed to keep up with my progress. If it's > open to interpretation at all, I will do the least amount possible > that I believe will net me a ...See More

Dec 4, 2012

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Desperately asking for help

by Eugene

Nov 28, 2012

I'd really appreciate a help from English teacher. I have an essay (10th grade, English classs, AP) and I'd like to know how would you grade it. What is good and what is bad about it.

I do not want tell the whole story why do I need it because I do not want to influence your judjement in any way.

Also, I do not want to post it r...See More

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English Teacher On 11/28/12, Eugene wrote:

First I'll say that grading essays is fairly arbitrary. I once gave out a paper to all my colleagues and asked them to grade it. The very same paper got grades ranging from an A to a D...

and that's a true story.

There's an old saying that goes 'one man's treasure is another man's junk' and th...See More

Nov 29, 2012

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Create Engaging Social Stories

by Teachers.Net Gazette

Dec 6, 2012

Web Tool: Storify – Create Engaging Social Stories

If you’re looking to create a compelling story using media from different sections of the Web, Storify is worth a look.

[link removed]

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Scapegoat poetry?

by eileen3g

Dec 8, 2012

Could anyone suggest a classic poem about scapegoating? That is, assigning or taking the blame for the sins of others? I am drawing a blank.

Many thanks in advance, Eileen

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Here's another one (wow...scapegoat poetry's depressing!) OVER THE HILL TO THE POOR-HOUSE by Will Carleton, 1897

Over the hill to the poor-house I'm trudgin' my weary way--- I, a woman of seventy, and only a trifle gray--- I, who am smart an' chipper, for all the years I've told, As many another woman that's only half as old.

Over the hill to the poor-house---I can't quite make it clear!...See More

Dec 30, 2012

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Technically, this one's about scapehorses And it's a song, written about the Anzac horses. During World War I, numerous Australian soldiers loaded their finest horses onto the ships to go overseas and ride into battle. The battle of Anzac (in the country we now know as Turkey) was a huge, bloody defeat for the Australians. When it was over, those soldiers who survived were shipped back hom...See MoreAnd it's a song, written about the Anzac horses. During World War I, numerous Australian soldiers loaded their finest horses onto the ships to go overseas and ride into battle. The battle of Anzac (in the country we now know as Turkey) was a huge, bloody defeat for the Australians. When it was over, those soldiers who survived were shipped back home but, uh oh, their government had sent smaller ships to retrieve them, with no room for their horses, so they were ordered to leave the animals behind. Some of the soldiers opted to shoot their own horses rather than abandon them in such a harsh environment. As the ships pulled away from shore, some of the remaining horses drowned trying to swim after their owners. Very sad stuff...

AS IF HE KNOWS by Eric Bogle

It’s as if he knows. He’s standing close to me, His breath warm on my sleeve, His head hung low. It’s as if he knows What the dawn will bring... The end of everything For my old Banjo. And all along the picket lines beneath the desert sky, The Light Horsemen move amongst their mates to say one last goodbye. And the horses stand so quietly, Row on silent row. It’s as if they know.

Time after time We rode through shot and shell; We rode in and out of Hell On their strong backs. Time after time They brought us safely through By their swift sure hooves And their brave hearts. Tomorrow we will form up ranks and march down to the quay, And sail back to our loved ones in that dear land across the sea While our loyal and true companions, Who asked so little and gave so much, Will lie dead in the dust.

For the orders came: No horses to return. We were to abandon them To be slaves. After all we’d shared And all that we’d been through A Nation’s gratitude Was a dusty grave, For we can’t leave them to the people here; we’d rather see them dead. So each man will take his best mate’s horse with a bullet through the head. For the people here are like their land, Wild and cruel and hard. So Banjo, here’s your reward.

It’s as if he knows. He's standing close to me, His breath warm on my sleeve, his head hung low, As if he knows.

Dec 30, 2012

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research papers in middle school

by Helen

Dec 20, 2012

I am interested in knowing when you teach "how to write research report". Is it started in middle school? How are the skills sequenced from middle school through 12th? If anyone is willing to share a written curriculum that delineates that sequence of skills, I would love to see it.

I haven't taught english in several years, and it does n...See More

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Sam J I wouldn't do a research report in middle school like I do in high school. Instead, I would work on skills like finding valid sources, how to paraphrase, how to summarize, how to use a direct quote to support an opinion, how to support a thesis, how to outline, etc. Those are the building block skills that middle schoolers need before they get to h...See More

Dec 20, 2012

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I am sorry to have vented On 12/20/12, Helen wrote: > I am interested in knowing when you teach "how to write > research report". Is it started in middle school? How are > the skills sequenced from middle school through 12th? If > anyone is willing to share a written curriculum that > delineates that sequence of skills, I would love to see it. > > I hav...See MoreOn 12/20/12, Helen wrote: > I am interested in knowing when you teach "how to write > research report". Is it started in middle school? How are > the skills sequenced from middle school through 12th? If > anyone is willing to share a written curriculum that > delineates that sequence of skills, I would love to see it. > > I haven't taught english in several years, and it does not > seem to be clearly defined at our school. > > Thank you !

I'm not sure why this is a such a staple in American education. My k-12 school started a program where the instruction of the research report would begin in 1st grade... I found that somewhere between ridiculous and madness.

In my day in school which was some time ago, we didn't learn 'research papers' until 11th grade with the intention of preparing us for doing the same in college. As I said, my school began teaching them in 1st grade and in 5th grade we were supposed to teach taking notes on a note card and how to write a bibliography.

I continue to believe that kids can't write a research paper until they can write... and reading helps a lot too. We take weak readers and tell them to glean information from a source that's written above their reading level. Worse we tell them to 'skim' the material for the 'pertinent and relevant' - weak readers can't skim.

Then we tell weak writers to take very good expository writing and to 'rewrite it in their own words'. They can't put their own thoughts into good writing much less take good writing and put it into their own thoughts...

And we NEVER connect the research report to the very fundamental and critical role that research plays in pushing back the frontier of knowledge and in government's major policy decisions. Kids think a research report is a school- based task, another hoop to jump through.

Maybe that's all it really is in school but I think it could be more than that if we wait until kids are developmentally ready to engage the task and in my not so humble opinion, that's not in Middle School - unless you are teaching very strong readers and they have very strong writing skills.

Sorry for the vent - truly sorry.

Dec 26, 2012

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Plagiarism :(

by Elizabeth C.

Dec 28, 2012

I'm posting this because I'm extremely frustrated and would like to know if anyone else has the same issue.

Two weeks ago, I assigned a very basic/elementary report for my 11th grade students to write alongside a presentation to the class over their topic. Since this is American Lit., students had to choose from a variety of historical to...See MoreI'm posting this because I'm extremely frustrated and would like to know if anyone else has the same issue.

Two weeks ago, I assigned a very basic/elementary report for my 11th grade students to write alongside a presentation to the class over their topic. Since this is American Lit., students had to choose from a variety of historical topics.

As stated, the report was very basic: three paragraphs where the student introduces the topic in the first paragraph (5W's and H). The second explains it's significance to America at the time, and the last explains it's impact on us/the world today.

I noted in the assignment that the second and third paragraphs had to be in their own words. I did not state that the first, which is primarily factual, had to be in their own words. But I did remind them many times in the computer lab that they needed to include in-text citations, if necessary.

As I'm grading these reports, I'm finding that almost every single report is taken verbatim or copy/pasted in chunks from various web sites. When I say everyone, I mean 96% of my class. I never noted they needed in-text citations in the assignment because I believe they have to know this by now - any fact/figure/piece of information they get from an outside resource must be cited parenthetically AND must be directly quoted if used verbatim. Unfortunately, this isn't the case.

I'm docking major points for the plagiarism - mainly because I can't grade writing that isn't their own and to show them that if they continue doing this they will not earn a good score - in my class or elsewhere. As a result, almost every student is going to fail the assignment.

I feel comfortable with the method I'm using to grade, but I can't help be feel incredibly frustrated by the fact they they don't know that they can't copy/paste information without directly quoting, without using only quotes in a paper (which a few have done), and without properly citing their information. Am I the only one to feel this way? Are there any solutions to it, other than spelling it out EVERY time I go over an assignment (which I think is ridiculous at the 11th grade level)?

I'm not a frequent poster of this, so if this has been discussed before, excuse me! I'm just really frustrated. ~Elizabeth C.

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Elizabeth C. Great advice! In the past, when I have had a similar (yet, not so extensive) issue, I have given that opportunity, and it's turned out okay. However, this was the last project on the semester, and next year we start fresh with a NEW research paper (an "official" research writing, and a lengthy one at that). I don't want to be burdened with two writ...See MoreGreat advice! In the past, when I have had a similar (yet, not so extensive) issue, I have given that opportunity, and it's turned out okay. However, this was the last project on the semester, and next year we start fresh with a NEW research paper (an "official" research writing, and a lengthy one at that). I don't want to be burdened with two writings and my other coursework (for this and my other preps), so I've decided to give them the grade for this semester, and then use their papers to show how to correct any plagiarism issues for the next. It's the only fair thing I can think of, given the odd situation.

Thanks for the tips!

On 12/30/12, You could probably get around the complaints wrote: > On 12/30/12, Elizabeth C. wrote: >> Thanks for the encouraging words, everyone! I'm nervous (which >> is, again, ridiculous!)about starting back and having to deal with >> the reactions of my students and their parents, but I feel better >> about sticking with my gut on this. My administration isn't very >> cooperative at all, as they like to avoid any confrontation >> whatsoever, so I might have to bump up the small extra credit I >> allowed my students to work on to appease them that I'm giving >> them "tough love," but I hope that maybe having them see the >> failing grades with the project will help us get a program like >> turnitin.com. I really think something like that will help me >> (and my other English/LA staff) teach better. >> >> Happy New Year! >> ~E. > > > By scrapping the assignment and saying, "Let's take this from the > top, shall we? Everybody cheated, which is lame, and there will be > no mercy for anyone who ever, ever plagiarizes again. But I'm going > to give you a chance to redo the assignment. Just make sure you're > turning in YOUR work this time, because I could just as easily give > every one of you the F's you deserve." > > Poof! Now you're a benevolent hero. > > But hang onto their plagiarized papers. If any parent raises hell, > just print out the web page where the text of the "research" first > appeared, staple it to the front of the student's paper (sneaker ads > and all), and the parent will have no ground to stand on. Have only > had one parent fly off at this, and it turned out that HE had > "written" his son's paper and was basically furious that I'd caught > HIM plagiarizing!

Dec 31, 2012

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You're so welcome, and your plan makes perfect sense. nfm On 12/31/12, Elizabeth C. wrote: > Great advice! In the past, when I have had a similar (yet, not so > extensive) issue, I have given that opportunity, and it's turned out > okay. However, this was the last project on the semester, and next year > we start fresh with a NEW research paper (an "official" research > writing, and a lengt...See MoreOn 12/31/12, Elizabeth C. wrote: > Great advice! In the past, when I have had a similar (yet, not so > extensive) issue, I have given that opportunity, and it's turned out > okay. However, this was the last project on the semester, and next year > we start fresh with a NEW research paper (an "official" research > writing, and a lengthy one at that). I don't want to be burdened with > two writings and my other coursework (for this and my other preps), so > I've decided to give them the grade for this semester, and then use > their papers to show how to correct any plagiarism issues for the next. > It's the only fair thing I can think of, given the odd situation. > > Thanks for the tips! > > >> On 12/30/12, Elizabeth C. wrote: >>> Thanks for the encouraging words, everyone! I'm nervous (which >>> is, again, ridiculous!)about starting back and having to deal with >>> the reactions of my students and their parents, but I feel better >>> about sticking with my gut on this. My administration isn't very >>> cooperative at all, as they like to avoid any confrontation >>> whatsoever, so I might have to bump up the small extra credit I >>> allowed my students to work on to appease them that I'm giving >>> them "tough love," but I hope that maybe having them see the >>> failing grades with the project will help us get a program like >>> turnitin.com. I really think something like that will help me >>> (and my other English/LA staff) teach better. >>> >>> Happy New Year! >>> ~E. >> >> > On 12/30/12, You could probably get around the complaints wrote: >> By scrapping the assignment and saying, "Let's take this from the >> top, shall we? Everybody cheated, which is lame, and there will be >> no mercy for anyone who ever, ever plagiarizes again. But I'm going >> to give you a chance to redo the assignment. Just make sure you're >> turning in YOUR work this time, because I could just as easily give >> every one of you the F's you deserve." >> >> Poof! Now you're a benevolent hero. >> >> But hang onto their plagiarized papers. If any parent raises hell, >> just print out the web page where the text of the "research" first >> appeared, staple it to the front of the student's paper (sneaker ads >> and all), and the parent will have no ground to stand on. Have only >> had one parent fly off at this, and it turned out that HE had >> "written" his son's paper and was basically furious that I'd caught >> HIM plagiarizing!

Dec 31, 2012

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