grammar errors

Join Teachers.Net

Chatboards

Recent Groups

HS English

MEMBERS

12 Members

+ Join Group

Pinned Posts

ALLAll Teachers

Teachers.Net LIVE CHAT Support group - Tues eve!

Featured Jobs

Full-timeMontessori Teacher

Maple Ridge, British Columbia, Canada

TemporaryTeachers, rural schools

Peace River North School District

Full-timeHead Teacher: 2nd/3rd Grades – Mills College Children’s School

Mills College

Teaching Jobs on Teachers.Net

Featured Job special only $39!

https://teachers.net/jobs

Become a Teachers.Net sponsor!

High School English Teachers Chatboard

grammar errors

by Renee

Jun 10, 2011

To yayforsummer,

Thanks for the comment. My class sounds very much like yours. I am also considered a tough teacher, but my students learn. I have high school students coming back saying that the last time they had grammar was with me in 7th or 8th grade. They are having trouble on the ACT and in college classes. I feel for them, but I cannot tell antoher teacher how to teach her classes. Anyway -- one question. Do you deduct 5 points for any error in a sentence. I have been deducting 1-3 points per error (depending on the type of error). I only deduct on grammar that I have taught. The content area teachers want to start grading for grammar in their classes next year. We are trying to come up with a consistent point system for all classes in junior high (hopefully it will carry over in high school. What are your thoughts?

Comment

(7)

report post

view previous comments

msteacher Students should know how to write grammatically correct sentences. It is imperative for life. Now that we are more writing more than ever due to technology, knowing how to write grammatically correct sentences is a must! Although technology has given us shortcuts in our written communication, we still need to stick to the basics..grammar!!! It's a ...See MoreStudents should know how to write grammatically correct sentences. It is imperative for life. Now that we are more writing more than ever due to technology, knowing how to write grammatically correct sentences is a must! Although technology has given us shortcuts in our written communication, we still need to stick to the basics..grammar!!! It's a lost art, and many students don't know how to write good sentences anymore because grammar is not being taught.

I may be mistaken, but I thought the TEKS held h.s. teachers responsible for grammar, usage, and mechanics as well. If so, then they must be taught/reviewed and students must be held accountable for using them correctly in their writing and with a loss of points if they don't. Our high school teachers teach proofreading and editing skills not to mention how to diagram sentences on top of all the other objectives they must cover in their ELA classroom.

It is our job to prepare our students for life...not just for tests. I don't think commas, sentence structure, and grammar require too much effort.

It's my job as an English teacher to make sure these objectives are taught as well as the millions of other objectives that are on my plate each and every year. Nothing is too small or tedious in my book. If it in is the TEKS, then it is taught in my classroom.

We are so busy focusing on state assessments that good old-fashioned teaching isn't happening like it should.

On 6/10/11, Jo wrote: > We have EOC tests, but grammar and spelling are such a small > portion of the points that the teachers have decided it is too > much effort to focus time on that. > > On 6/10/11, yayforsummer wrote: >> On 6/10/11, Renee wrote: >>> To yayforsummer, >>> >>> Thanks for the comment. My class sounds very much like >>> yours. I am also considered a tough teacher, but my >>> students learn. I have high school students coming back >>> saying that the last time they had grammar was with me in >>> 7th or 8th grade. They are having trouble on the ACT and >>> in college classes. I feel for them, but I cannot tell >>> antoher teacher how to teach her classes. Anyway -- one >>> question. Do you deduct 5 points for any error in a >>> sentence. I have been deducting 1-3 points per error >>> (depending on the type of error). I only deduct on grammar >>> that I have taught. The content area teachers want to start >>> grading for grammar in their classes next year. We are >>> trying to come up with a consistent point system for all >>> classes in junior high (hopefully it will carry over in >>> high school. What are your thoughts? >> >> I weigh each sentence as 5 points. That way they can have >> several errors in one sentence and only lose the 5 > points. I >> highlight the sentence and write the number of errors that >> the sentence contains. I only hold them accountable > for what >> has been taught concerning their grammar/usage/mechanics. I >> make them figure out why the sentence is highlighted. > They >> have to correct those highlighted sentences on a separate >> piece of paper to show they understand what they did wrong. I >> don't put commas and such in for them. >> >> Students usually get 2 grades on a composition: 1 grade for >> grammar/usage/mechanics/sentence structure and 1 grade for >> ideas/voice/organization. I teach in a 2A school and am the >> only 8th grade English teacher, so they leave my class >> knowing their grammar, which is what the 2 h.s. English >> teachers asked me to focus on besides rhetorical writing. >> >> Maybe you and your fellow teachers should agree to take 2 >> points off for each error no matter the type...be > consistent. >> As for your h.s. English teacher, she should support you in >> this, especially with the new STAAR test. The objectives >> with the new test are making us vertically align more where >> we have to review previous objectives as well as teach new >> ones. >> >> I just don't understand why you would work so hard at the >> middle school level to get these kids to be great writers and >> use correct grammar to have it all fade away. Doesn't > h.s. >> have STAAR and EOC tests? What do their scores look like? >> Just curious. If students shouldn't worry about grammatical >> mistakes then why is it on the state assessment? If they are >> having problems with ACT and college classes, then maybe this >> teacher isn't doing her job and someone needs to step in to >> help her. Does she have an English degree? Is this an >> experienced h.s. teacher or a veteran? Honestly, sounds > like >> your h.s. English teacher needs to teach art or something >> because she is too free-spirited. Nothing against art >> teachers, but that's just how I picture her. LOL! >> >> I hope my input helps.

Jun 13, 2011

report post

Jo I believe it is the breaking of the BAD habits of never having to write grammatically correct sentences the FIRST TIME that really adds to the difficulty of any instruction sticking. Our schools and many of the surrounding counties push writing for the ideas and editing afterward as the major source of students learning to write from K up. They too...See MoreI believe it is the breaking of the BAD habits of never having to write grammatically correct sentences the FIRST TIME that really adds to the difficulty of any instruction sticking. Our schools and many of the surrounding counties push writing for the ideas and editing afterward as the major source of students learning to write from K up. They took the concept of brainstorming and writing based on upper levels (when students had already mastered the basics) and brought it down to the lower levels. The initial teaching and importance of writing sentences correctly the first time was abandoned believing it stiffled creativity and caused students writing to not be as robust.

Kids really have missed the writing sentneces correctly portion of the instruction and application. Now we expect that they can break the bad habits, become editing experts when the method of learning and demonstrating mastery is to become master editors. Editing is a much harder process than doing it right the first time and few teachers have good strategies to address teaching students to edit.

AT the sentence level, how many teachers have students work backward on their papers so that you aren't looking at the flow of the paper at the same time of the mechanics. How many kids actually have a solid list of everything they need to be checking in a sentence, paragraph, overall paper? It really is a huge amount of things when they weren't expected to accurately write in the "draft" phase and have little to no skills to accurately write initially in the first place.

On 6/13/11, msteacher wrote: > Students should know how to write grammatically correct sentences. > It is imperative for life. Now that we are more writing more than > ever due to technology, knowing how to write grammatically correct > sentences is a must! Although technology has given us shortcuts in > our written communication, we still need to stick to the > basics..grammar!!! It's a lost art, and many students don't know > how to write good sentences anymore because grammar is not being > taught. > > I may be mistaken, but I thought the TEKS held h.s. teachers > responsible for grammar, usage, and mechanics as well. If so, then > they must be taught/reviewed and students must be held accountable > for using them correctly in their writing and with a loss of points > if they don't. Our high school teachers teach proofreading and > editing skills not to mention how to diagram sentences on top of > all the other objectives they must cover in their ELA classroom. > > It is our job to prepare our students for life...not just for tests. > I don't think commas, sentence structure, and grammar require too > much effort. > > It's my job as an English teacher to make sure these objectives are > taught as well as the millions of other objectives that are on my > plate each and every year. Nothing is too small or tedious in my > book. If it in is the TEKS, then it is taught in my classroom. > > We are so busy focusing on state assessments that good old-fashioned > teaching isn't happening like it should. > > > > > On 6/10/11, Jo wrote: >> We have EOC tests, but grammar and spelling are such a small >> portion of the points that the teachers have decided it is too >> much effort to focus time on that. >> >> On 6/10/11, yayforsummer wrote: >>> On 6/10/11, Renee wrote: >>>> To yayforsummer, >>>> >>>> Thanks for the comment. My class sounds very much like >>>> yours. I am also considered a tough teacher, but my >>>> students learn. I have high school students coming back >>>> saying that the last time they had grammar was with me in >>>> 7th or 8th grade. They are having trouble on the ACT and >>>> in college classes. I feel for them, but I cannot tell >>>> antoher teacher how to teach her classes. Anyway -- one >>>> question. Do you deduct 5 points for any error in a >>>> sentence. I have been deducting 1-3 points per error >>>> (depending on the type of error). I only deduct on grammar >>>> that I have taught. The content area teachers want to start >>>> grading for grammar in their classes next year. We are >>>> trying to come up with a consistent point system for all >>>> classes in junior high (hopefully it will carry over in >>>> high school. What are your thoughts? >>> >>> I weigh each sentence as 5 points. That way they can have >>> several errors in one sentence and only lose the 5 >> points. I >>> highlight the sentence and write the number of errors that >>> the sentence contains. I only hold them accountable >> for what >>> has been taught concerning their grammar/usage/mechanics. I >>> make them figure out why the sentence is highlighted. >> They >>> have to correct those highlighted sentences on a separate >>> piece of paper to show they understand what they did wrong. I >>> don't put commas and such in for them. >>> >>> Students usually get 2 grades on a composition: 1 grade for >>> grammar/usage/mechanics/sentence structure and 1 grade for >>> ideas/voice/organization. I teach in a 2A school and am the >>> only 8th grade English teacher, so they leave my class >>> knowing their grammar, which is what the 2 h.s. English >>> teachers asked me to focus on besides rhetorical writing. >>> >>> Maybe you and your fellow teachers should agree to take 2 >>> points off for each error no matter the type...be >> consistent. >>> As for your h.s. English teacher, she should support you in >>> this, especially with the new STAAR test. The objectives >>> with the new test are making us vertically align more where >>> we have to review previous objectives as well as teach new >>> ones. >>> >>> I just don't understand why you would work so hard at the >>> middle school level to get these kids to be great writers and >>> use correct grammar to have it all fade away. Doesn't >> h.s. >>> have STAAR and EOC tests? What do their scores look like? >>> Just curious. If students shouldn't worry about grammatical >>> mistakes then why is it on the state assessment? If they are >>> having problems with ACT and college classes, then maybe this >>> teacher isn't doing her job and someone needs to step in to >>> help her. Does she have an English degree? Is this an >>> experienced h.s. teacher or a veteran? Honestly, sounds >> like >>> your h.s. English teacher needs to teach art or something >>> because she is too free-spirited. Nothing against art >>> teachers, but that's just how I picture her. LOL! >>> >>> I hope my input helps.

Jun 14, 2011

report post

Mark Pennington Jo,

So true that our strict adherence to the writing process has relegated grammar and mechanics to the all-too-frequently-ignored editing stage. Here are diagnostic assessments with recording matrices to inform the teacher as to how to best differentiate grammar instruction and hold students accountable for proper use of the language. Ch...See More

Jun 20, 2011

report post

Jo On 6/20/11, Mark Pennington wrote: > Jo, > > So true that our strict adherence to the writing process has relegated > grammar and mechanics to the all-too-frequently-ignored editing stage. > Here are diagnostic assessments with recording matrices to inform the > teacher as to how to best differentiate grammar instruction and hold ...See More

Jun 21, 2011

report post

Peter D You make the following assumptions:

1. Taking points off for written grammatical mistakes is an effective way to hold students responsible for correct grammar. 2. Teaching effective use of commas, sentence structure, and grammar does not require too much effort. 3. Old-fashioned teaching is good teaching.

These are all assumptions...See MoreYou make the following assumptions:

1. Taking points off for written grammatical mistakes is an effective way to hold students responsible for correct grammar. 2. Teaching effective use of commas, sentence structure, and grammar does not require too much effort. 3. Old-fashioned teaching is good teaching.

These are all assumptions worth questioning and thinking about.

-Peter

On 6/13/11, msteacher wrote: > Students should know how to write grammatically correct sentences. > It is imperative for life. Now that we are more writing more than > ever due to technology, knowing how to write grammatically correct > sentences is a must! Although technology has given us shortcuts in > our written communication, we still need to stick to the > basics..grammar!!! It's a lost art, and many students don't know > how to write good sentences anymore because grammar is not being > taught. > > I may be mistaken, but I thought the TEKS held h.s. teachers > responsible for grammar, usage, and mechanics as well. If so, then > they must be taught/reviewed and students must be held accountable > for using them correctly in their writing and with a loss of points > if they don't. Our high school teachers teach proofreading and > editing skills not to mention how to diagram sentences on top of > all the other objectives they must cover in their ELA classroom. > > It is our job to prepare our students for life...not just for tests. > I don't think commas, sentence structure, and grammar require too > much effort. > > It's my job as an English teacher to make sure these objectives are > taught as well as the millions of other objectives that are on my > plate each and every year. Nothing is too small or tedious in my > book. If it in is the TEKS, then it is taught in my classroom. > > We are so busy focusing on state assessments that good old-fashioned > teaching isn't happening like it should. > > > > > On 6/10/11, Jo wrote: >> We have EOC tests, but grammar and spelling are such a small >> portion of the points that the teachers have decided it is too >> much effort to focus time on that. >> >> On 6/10/11, yayforsummer wrote: >>> On 6/10/11, Renee wrote: >>>> To yayforsummer, >>>> >>>> Thanks for the comment. My class sounds very much like >>>> yours. I am also considered a tough teacher, but my >>>> students learn. I have high school students coming back >>>> saying that the last time they had grammar was with me in >>>> 7th or 8th grade. They are having trouble on the ACT and >>>> in college classes. I feel for them, but I cannot tell >>>> antoher teacher how to teach her classes. Anyway -- one >>>> question. Do you deduct 5 points for any error in a >>>> sentence. I have been deducting 1-3 points per error >>>> (depending on the type of error). I only deduct on grammar >>>> that I have taught. The content area teachers want to start >>>> grading for grammar in their classes next year. We are >>>> trying to come up with a consistent point system for all >>>> classes in junior high (hopefully it will carry over in >>>> high school. What are your thoughts? >>> >>> I weigh each sentence as 5 points. That way they can have >>> several errors in one sentence and only lose the 5 >> points. I >>> highlight the sentence and write the number of errors that >>> the sentence contains. I only hold them accountable >> for what >>> has been taught concerning their grammar/usage/mechanics. I >>> make them figure out why the sentence is highlighted. >> They >>> have to correct those highlighted sentences on a separate >>> piece of paper to show they understand what they did wrong. I >>> don't put commas and such in for them. >>> >>> Students usually get 2 grades on a composition: 1 grade for >>> grammar/usage/mechanics/sentence structure and 1 grade for >>> ideas/voice/organization. I teach in a 2A school and am the >>> only 8th grade English teacher, so they leave my class >>> knowing their grammar, which is what the 2 h.s. English >>> teachers asked me to focus on besides rhetorical writing. >>> >>> Maybe you and your fellow teachers should agree to take 2 >>> points off for each error no matter the type...be >> consistent. >>> As for your h.s. English teacher, she should support you in >>> this, especially with the new STAAR test. The objectives >>> with the new test are making us vertically align more where >>> we have to review previous objectives as well as teach new >>> ones. >>> >>> I just don't understand why you would work so hard at the >>> middle school level to get these kids to be great writers and >>> use correct grammar to have it all fade away. Doesn't >> h.s. >>> have STAAR and EOC tests? What do their scores look like? >>> Just curious. If students shouldn't worry about grammatical >>> mistakes then why is it on the state assessment? If they are >>> having problems with ACT and college classes, then maybe this >>> teacher isn't doing her job and someone needs to step in to >>> help her. Does she have an English degree? Is this an >>> experienced h.s. teacher or a veteran? Honestly, sounds >> like >>> your h.s. English teacher needs to teach art or something >>> because she is too free-spirited. Nothing against art >>> teachers, but that's just how I picture her. LOL! >>> >>> I hope my input helps.

Aug 19, 2011

report post