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English as a Second Language Chatboard

Grammar Point

by Steve

Jul 28, 2010

Can someone help me with understanding the "grammar point."

“Sally gets up at 7. She has breakfast at 7:30 and goes to work at 8. She works in an office downtown”

“I can dance. I can’t sing. Bill can’t play the piano, but he can play the violin.”

focus on what you think is the most difficult piece of informat...See More

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CALLA Lesson Plan

by joann

Jul 31, 2010

Does anyone have a lesson that follows the CALLA lesson plan format in science that I can view to get a better understanding of the format itself?

Thanks!

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Need help from an ESL Teacher!!

by MissSarafina

Aug 1, 2010

Hi, I am new to this forum. I am currently completing an endorsement in ESL and I have to interview an ESL Teacher. I am wondering if there are any ESL teachers that may be able to answer some of the following questions I have... 1. What type of ELL program methodology does your school employ? 2. What types of methods and theories do you employ in ...See More

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Sara THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE RESPONSE!! I really appreciate it. I could not have asked for a better person to respond to me. Your answers were excellent and very in-depth. I just finished my 12 page paper and I owe you big time! This is my last paper I had to do for my ESL endorsement so a huge thank you for your help. I really enjoyed reading your re...See More

Aug 2, 2010

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Neeta Sadhwani Hi Mam, can you please help me ansereing these questions? 1 How is standardized testing handled?(for ell) 2. Describe exit testing completed in school/district. I will really appreciate your response. Thank you Neeta.

On 8/02/10, ESL teacher wrote: > I will try to help if I can. I have been an ESL teacher for > over 15 years. I am li...See MoreHi Mam, can you please help me ansereing these questions? 1 How is standardized testing handled?(for ell) 2. Describe exit testing completed in school/district. I will really appreciate your response. Thank you Neeta.

On 8/02/10, ESL teacher wrote: > I will try to help if I can. I have been an ESL teacher for > over 15 years. I am licensed k-12, but have only used the > elementary part for one year. The rest of the time has been > spent at the middle school and high school levels. I also > worked adult ESL for two years. > > >> 1. What type of ELL program methodology does your school >> employ? > I will start with one fact. I really don't know > the "current" names for the things that I do. You will find > out as you teach that ideas get recycled under new trendy > names and everyone hops on the new bandwagon, when in reality > it is the same or similar to something that was tried in the > past. So I will simple tell you what we do. > > First of all we are a small rural school. We have > approximately 45 kids in a grade with about3-5 of them being > ESL kids. Most of our kids arrive from rural areas in > Central America, speaking absolutely no English, plus they > would behind academically even if they spoke fluent English. > > Our elemenatry school has a full time ESL teacher. She pulls > the students into her classroom. THey are divided by grade, > not by English level. Her day is so booked, that she does > not have a time period for the brand new beginners. This is > currently the thing that she is trying to work on. > > She is required to do the same Text and curriculum as the > Reading/English teacher, just smaller groups/slower doesn't > cover as much. > > I am at the secondary level. Although I am a full time > teacher (duel licensence) I only teach three ESL classes. > They are divided by English level. I have a low beginers > class, a high beginners class and an advanced class. The > beginners would be in the bottom two classes and some are > then i n the top two classes and only the advanced students > have only one class. I am not certified in English, so I > cannot award English credit. ESL is considered an elective. > Consequently my students are also in their grades English > classes as well. > > In the lowest class, we do alot of vocabulary, culture, > writing skills, spelling, and reading. THe middle class is > more content driven. It is still heavy on the reading and > writing, but in the content area with 3-4 grade level texts. > I concentrate heavily on social studies and science in this > class. THe advanced class (which often isn't really > advanced) has more reading and writing. We concentrate on > papragraphs and writing good sentences. I also do a > monitored study hall where we work on homework for their > other classes. If you arrived in my school, without a word > of English, you would only be in my classroom 2 periods a > day, the rest of the day you would be mainstreamed. It is > even worse in the elementary, there you would only see the > ESL teacher for 30 minutes, 4 days a week. > > > >> 2. What types of methods and theories do you employ in your >> classroom? > > role playing, shared reading, writing sentences with > vocabulary words, hands on manipultaves, educational games, > text with higher content but lower reading levels, getting > the kids to talk, silent free reading > >> 3. Which methods or theories does your district encourage? > We are completely and utterly on our own. It is totally up > to me. My district is just happy I make it happen that have > taken the "you know what your doing, do it" attitude. This > is both wonderful, overwhelming, and utterly frightening at > times. I am also completely in charge of their schedules as > well. If there are any questions reguarding ESL policies or > procedures, I am the person who researches and comes up with > the policies and procedures and then presents them to the > principal and superintendent. FOr the most part they have > been rubber stamped. Like I said, wonderful, overwhelming > and terrifying all at the same time. > > In alot of smaller schools that have had hardly any ESL > students, you are the expert the minute you get there, even > though you've only been out of college for a couple of months. > If this happens to you, learn who you can talk to in > neighboiring districts and the state offices as quickly as > you can. They can provide a wealth of information and > resources. > > >> 4. What is your school and districts process in identifying >> a LEP student? > Most of our students arrive not speaking a word of English, > these are the easiest to identify. I still give them the > Woodcock Munoz test. > > The office is supposed (that being the key word in this > sentence) let the elementary teacher and I know about anyone > who marks a language other than English on the home language > survey. We are the ones who are supposed to decide. Often > what happens though is they see that the kids is translating > for mom and think "this kid speaks English, they don't need > ESL" and we don't get notified until their teacher's start > pulling their hair out. I have started going in and checking > records every time we get a new student. I check for ESL and > previous schools and the home language survey. Then I go and > talk to the student. I give the woodcock munoz and have the > kids write a short essay, if they have been past third grade > in a different school, I also have them write a essay in that > language as well. I am pretty good at Spanish, between me > and the Spanish teacher we can get a basic idea of how good > their education was in their first language. > > The trickies part of this whole procedure is deciding which > math level to put them in. I have so few levels of ESL that > that is no problem. Once they are in class, I slowly find > out more about their abilities, but the math on the other > hand is much more difficult. > > >> 5. What are some challenges that you face as an ESL teacher? > A. Most of my kids come in academically behind. Just > because they were getting A's and B's in math in their first > language does not mean they are at grade level here. Just > because they are in 8th grade, doesn't mean that they are > reading anywhere near 8th grade level in their first > language. This has major implications for their schooling > here. > > Not only do they have to make up all the lost material, they > have to completely learn a new language and oh by the way > learn everything that their American classmates are learning. > > I am completely behind the move to require newly arrived > secondary students to do high school in 6 years instead of > 4. The whole idea that they can do "double duty" is > ludicris. Our politians either believe that these kids our > geniouses or that our American students are stupid, and can > only learn half as much. Either that or they have simply not > thought about it. > > B. State testing----Our school has enough ESL students to > be graded seperately on the supgroup ESL reading and ESL > math. In our state if you have more than 20 ESL students > your school also has to meet AYP for them as well. > > What a JOKE!! By definition an ESL student is a child who > doesn't speak English and doesn't read at grade level. The > minute they do read at grade level, often before, they are > exited out of the program. Consequently, the students who > are in the ESL subgroup will never ever read at grade level. > I always have about the same number of students in this > subgroup. I have actually had been yell at me and ask me why > I haven't brought this group up any in the past five years. > OMG!! they honestly thought that that group was the same kids > for five years. NO!!! as the kids got to grade level, they > were exited and we had new nonspeakers arriving every year. > Politicians and even quite a few admin and even some teachers > are clueless on how this works. > > > >> 6. What are some successes that you’ve had as an ESL >> teacher? > Every time I see one of my students pass those stupid state > test or graduate, I consider it a success. > > ANother success was actually getting one of my ESL students > classified as SPecial ES. This is almost impossible if the > student arrives after 5th grade. The reason it is so > important is because Spec ed. can modify the state test on an > IEP or demand lower scores to pass. ESL cannot. So for this > kid to graduate, he had to be Special Ed. The thing is HE > WAS!!! BUt for the first six years, I kept hearing, English > might be the problem. FInally the second half of his senior > year he was finally approved. THen it was a close call > because he wasn't failing any of his classes. I argued the > reason he wasn't failing was because he was spending half the > day with me and I was essentially being he Spec ed teacher. > > PS if the student has any missing schooling they don't even > test them. The spec ed rules were not written for students > who come from countries that don't have spec ed programs. > Often kids are simply asked not to return, or they are put in > the back of the classroom and ignored until theysimple don't > come back. This consequently means they are ineligible for > special ed when they get here unless it is severe enough like > major brain trauma or obvious mental retardation. > >> 7. What can a student expect in your classroom? >> (environment, instruction, etc.) > In my classroom, friendly and talkative. I wnat my kids to > talk and be very comfortable. If they aren't they don't > learn near as much. I can usually do this because my classes > range from 4-8 kids. I also expect them to do their work and > try. As soon as I find out they are eligible for post > secondary programs/funding are start getting them excited > about all the possibilites and working to a goal. > >> 8. What do you or the district do to involve the parents of >> ELL students? > parent teacher conferences, we post messages at the local > factory in spanish. We also have a person, who is fluent > and knows most of thepeople in the community come in three > times a week, to make phone calls. > >> 9. What do you see for the future of ESL education? > Unfortunately not much change. Immigration is such a hot > button topic right now that no one wants to reform ESL. > > We need to stop punishing high schools when their ESL > students do not graduate in four years. The law was written > like all students arrive before 4th grade. In reality my > last seven arrivals were ---17, 15, 17, 16, 13, 14, and 17. > The kids I got from the elementary school last year arrived > in 4th and 6th grade. The ones I am getting this year are > before kindergarden (is being tested for Autism) and 5th > grade. I will also be monitoring one, exited in 6th grade, > she was born here, but test and didn't qualify for spec ed > because she was "working at her level". That's special ed > speak for the far end of the bell curve where it just barely > falls in the norm range, but since there is no discrepancy > between her IQ and how she is actually performing in class, > she doesn't qualify. > > > >> 10. What advice do you have for future ESL teachers? > Get a duel license in a different field, especially if you > plan to work in a smaller school. Also because of the new > highly qualified teacher rules, if you (or your admin) want > to beable to teach and award credit in a content area > (shelter classes) you must be licensed in these areas. > >> 11. What do you think is working currently in our country >> for ESL students? > > NOt much. Yes the test put the spot light on ESL students, > but it has backfired. Our drop out rate among this > population has gone up as kids think there is no way they can > pass these tests. Another way it has hurt our community is > we have elminated one portion of our out reach program. We > used to scour the community for 15-19 year olds who arrived. > We talked them and any relative they might have here into > letting them not earn a paycheck and come to school. We sold > the English and math as a way for them to make it here. > These young adults would come and try to get as much English > and math as they could. Quite a few of them only had > elemetary educations, often they were also working. Most of > this group never really stood a change or even planned on > grauduating. That wasn't their main goal, English was. > Occasionally one would stay long enough to graduate, these > were usually the ones who arrived with their families and > brought with them a solid education from their home countries. > > I am not taking about the kids who arrive with their > families. I am talking about the 16 year old who arrived to > babysit some cousin's kids or the 17 yearold who arrived and > didn't know anybody. We know these kids are still arriving > in our district, but no one is out looking for them any > more. Our school simply cannot take the hit to out drop out > record, because this also is a way that you can fail AYP in > our state. The sorry state of affairs is those two years of > English that I got into those young adults made a world of > difference to our community. It is our community overall > that has suffered and will continue to suffer because of the > implimantion of this one rule. > > >> 12. What do you think is NOT working currently in our >> country for ESL students? > > A. judging schools by their drop out rates, when the schools > do out reach to try to teach new arrivals English. This all > our nothing mentality hurts communities. Yes I would love > all twenty year olds to have a high school diploma, but which > is better for my community the new arrival with a 3rd grade > education and NO English or the "HS dropout" that same > student who now has two years of English, a 5-6 grade > education in math plus contacts inthe community outside of > his small group, knowledge of how the school system works and > feel comfortable to attend his future children's > parentteacher dconferences, enough English to shop at the > stores in town, knowledge of how the laws, governments, and > policie work, and more pride in his new community. Sure this > student didn't get a high school diploma, but honestly which > one is better for our community in the long run. > > B. How Spec ed. works with ESL? I've had Spec ed. teachers > think that no ESL students should be Spec Ed. My response > was if 7% of American students are spec ed, doesn't it make > sense that approximately 7% of other countries students will > be special ed as well. > > Rules need to be rewritten to acknowledge that not all > countries have spec ed programs and how this impacts the > special ed kids in those countries. > > C. We need to start being upfront with students, parents, > admin, school boards, and politicians that it is going to > take more time for the kids who arrive in middle school or > later to graduate. This needs to be a written individual > plan, withno stigma for the school or student who graduates > in five or six years instead of four. > > D. Politicans need to realize that not all ESL students are > equal. On fortunately many of them are more used to dealing > with the ESL students in their rich suburban or private > school districts. Here the average ESL student arrives with > some English and is the child of professionals, who they > themselves speak English. They are also more than likely > legal so have every incentive to work hard so they will > graduate and get a good job or go to post secondary education. > > That's not the average ESL kid I see. Mine arrive speaking > no English, often not accompanied by family members. Parents > of my kids normally can't help their children with their > homework even if they spoke English because most of them have > less than an elementary education. The factory in our town > runs 60-70 hour weeks so most of my kids hardly ever see > their parents and when they do they are exhausted. Another > problem is the "we're going home as soon as things get better > or we have enough money" line the kids hear at home. FOr the > exhausted parents, even if they are planning to stay, any > time someone complains, it is easier to say this than to > argue and fight. Unfortunately homesick kids cling to this > mantra, and if your going home, you really don't need to > learn English or make friends do you. Over half our illegal, > which means the high school diploma means even less. > Afterall none of my parents can afford to pay for college out > of their own pocket and these kids are not ledgible for > student loans. Also most of them know that they will have > to "buy" fake papers, meaning that there is a strong > possiblity that the name on their high school diploma will > not match up with the name on their "work papers." > > Needless to say my kids or not the same kids you would find > in the rich districts that you would find most of the > politicians children. Yet, they make decisions that while > are appropriate for the kids in their districts, aren't for > the kids in mine.

Aug 2, 2010

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need help with ELL questions!

by Neeta Sadhwani

Aug 2, 2010

Hi, can somebody answer these 2 questions, any help will be greatly appreciated!

How is standardized testing handled? Describe exit testing completed in school/district.

thank you Neeta.

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ELL second grade

by madeline

Aug 6, 2010

I am experienced upper grade level ELL teacher. This will be my second year with 2nd graders. My district has rigid curriculum and I'm fine w/ math, science. Language arts with ELL at this level is a challenge. I feel I still don't know well enough what to expect this grade level to do in terms of writing. I know what genres I need to teach, but ma...See More

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cabybake I found the best way to supplement sight word vocabulary instruction is through a word wall. I used 5 words per week as my spelling words and did activities with the word wall all week. You should look up Patricia Cunningham for ideas. Actually, I like Cunningham's ideas for writing and reading as well. She's the creator of 4 Blocks. It's a great w...See More

Aug 7, 2010

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An abundance of activities for k through college

by HE

Aug 7, 2010

I'm teaching in China and I'm looking for an abundance of activities that I can use for teaching my English learning students. I teach students from kindergarten to college. They gave me no curriculum and this school is centered on making classes fun for students. But, it feels like I'm running out of activities and idea. Thus, can someone point me...See More

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delightful4U2 On 8/07/10, HE wrote: > I'm teaching in China and I'm looking for an abundance of > activities that I can use for teaching my English learning > students. I teach students from kindergarten to college. > They gave me no curriculum and this school is centered on > making classes fun for students. But, it feels like I'm > running ou...See More

Aug 21, 2010

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Mark Yates These sites may help

teachit.co.uk,

esl-library.com

[link removed]

[link removed]

[link removed]

Good luck

On 8/21/10, delightful4U2 wrote: > On 8/07/10, HE wrote: >> I'm teaching in China and I'm looking for an abundance of >> activities that I can use for teaching my E...See More

Aug 24, 2010

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ESOL Websites

by pizwit

Aug 20, 2010

I am trying to compile a list of websites that are useful for ESOL teachers. Could you all please send me your favorite sites for teaching, for information, and for lessons/materials? Thank you in advance.

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pizwit Thank you for these sites. I would love more. This can be teacher information or sites that are good to use for the students.

Aug 25, 2010

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dede Have you tried "Dave's Cafe?" Lots of ESL stuff!

On 8/21/10, delightful4U2 wrote: > On 8/20/10, pizwit wrote: >> I am trying to compile a list of websites that are useful >> for ESOL teachers. Could you all please send me your >> favorite sites for teaching, for information, and for >> lessons/materials? Thank yo...See More

Aug 26, 2010

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Writing program

by CherylT

Aug 23, 2010

I was wondering if anyone knew of a good writing program to use with ESL Learners in grades K-8. I have taught writing to ESL students before and use 6 traits, but I wanted to know if anyone had used a program that targeted ESL students. Thank you!

~Cheryl

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