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English as a Second Language Chatboard

Am I naive to think I'll find a full-time job?

by Jenny

Sep 15, 2011

Hi Teachers, I'm an ESL teacher with a Master's degree. I've been teaching for a few years, but so far, all of my jobs have been part-time with fairly low pay. I recently decided to quit my jobs so that I could focus on finding something full-time. A lot of people have been telling me that I'm crazy, and that I should have been happy to have a job ...See More

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massesl Are you certified to teach in the public schools? Then, I'm sure you can find something, depending on where you're willing to move to/teach. Some states offer alt. cert. if you're not certified - where I am (mass.) you can get a provisional cert just by passing a test in teaching ESL.

Also, private schools don't care about certification us...See More

Oct 18, 2011

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Liliane I can empathize with your lamentable situation. I have a BA in English, an MA in TESOL, national and international experience, certified in two states, have written extensively on second- language acquisition, fluent in more than one language, and have had no luck even getting an interview and I have sent resumes/applications all over the USA. I'll...See MoreI can empathize with your lamentable situation. I have a BA in English, an MA in TESOL, national and international experience, certified in two states, have written extensively on second- language acquisition, fluent in more than one language, and have had no luck even getting an interview and I have sent resumes/applications all over the USA. I'll keep plugging away...and you do the same. good luck, Liliane

On 10/18/11, massesl wrote: > Are you certified to teach in the public schools? Then, I'm > sure you can find something, depending on where you're willing > to move to/teach. > Some states offer alt. cert. if you're not certified - where I > am (mass.) you can get a provisional cert just by passing a > test in teaching ESL. > > Also, private schools don't care about certification usually - > some private secondary/boarding schools have ELLs (their > parents send them over here for an American > education/Englsih) - contact carney sandoe (carneysandoe.com) > > > > > On 9/15/11, Jenny wrote: >> Hi Teachers, I'm an ESL teacher with a Master's degree. >> I've been teaching for a few years, but so far, all of my >> jobs have been part-time with fairly low pay. I recently >> decided to quit my jobs so that I could focus on finding >> something full-time. A lot of people have been telling me >> that I'm crazy, and that I should have been happy to have a >> job at all, in this economy. They're probably right, but I >> really think that I deserve more than I've been earning, >> and it's frustrating. Actually, it seems as though >> full-time jobs in this field are just as bad... I was once >> offered a position at a language school in NYC for a salary >> of 20k. That's the equivalent of about $10 an hour! I >> wanted to laugh. I wish that qualified teachers would just >> stop accepting these insultingly low-paying jobs so that >> employers would be forced to pay us what we're worth. >> >> Anyway, I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm just wondering if >> anyone else is in the same situation, and has any stories >> to share. Is it possible to find a full-time job in ESL >> with fair pay? And if so, what's the best way to go about >> looking for one? Is there anything that could be done to >> change this situation?

Oct 20, 2011

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Native Language Instruction

by Chris

Sep 15, 2011

I'm teaching in a K-2 push-in/pull-out ESL position. Has anyone had success with providing students with support in their native language? I find that many of my students lack literacy skills in their native language, so it's not always helpful to incorporate native language support. Thoughts??

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To: lynne/ca or anyone willing to help

by Va

Sep 18, 2011

I need some suggestions on materials to order for two ESL students who have just moved to Va. One is a 1st grader, the other a 3rd grader. We do not have an ESL teacher in our small division and until now have not had any students come to us with no English language skills. Both did formal education in Nicaragua and were strong students. I am able ...See More

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lynne/ca On 9/18/11, Va wrote: > I need some suggestions on materials to order for two ESL > students who have just moved to Va. One is a 1st grader, > the other a 3rd grader. We do not have an ESL teacher in > our small division and until now have not had any students > come to us with no English language skills. Both did formal > educati...See More

Sep 23, 2011

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Interview?

by Alex

Sep 20, 2011

Would someone be willing to do a quick interview by email for a college assignment I'm doing?

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Alex Odell On 9/22/11, Gary Murphy wrote: > On 9/20/11, Alex wrote: >> Would someone be willing to do a quick interview by email >> for a college assignment I'm doing? > > In response to your ad, I am willing to be interviewed. What is > the subject and/or purpose of this interview? I want to know if > i fit your needs. I am America...See More

Sep 24, 2011

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Gary Murphy I will answer ten questions. My email is [email removed].

Sep 24, 2011

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EFL teachers for online school

by Inna

Sep 28, 2011

Hi! I'm looking for EFL teachers for online school. Don't hesitate to contact me to find out all the details. skype: study-online.kz

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ESL Teacher On 9/28/11, Inna wrote: > Hi! I'm looking for EFL teachers for online school. > Don't hesitate to contact me to find out all the details. > skype: study-online.kz

Hello Please e-mail me the information about getting started with teaching ESL online.

Jan 10, 2012

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P On 1/10/12, ESL Teacher wrote: > On 9/28/11, Inna wrote: >> Hi! I'm looking for EFL teachers for online school. >> Don't hesitate to contact me to find out all the details. >> skype: study-online.kz > > Hello Please e-mail me the information about getting started > with teaching ESL online.

Feb 19, 2012

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France-Utah-teacher exchangeURGENT

by Nathalie Nicente

Oct 9, 2011

Hi everyone, I'm French and I'm an English teacher living in southeastern France (near the Alps) and I'm looking for an American colleague who teaches French in the USA willing to swap his position with mine (Fulbright program) for next schoolyear (deadline is Oct. 15th for American teachers !) so that means the American colleague would teach EFL h...See More

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number of vocabulary words in a class

by Susan

Oct 10, 2011

I have begun teaching an adult ESL class at my church. I am a Spanish teacher by day and in our classes, we target 4-7 new vocabulary in a class. If you teach adults, can you tell me what your target range is for introducing new vocabulary?

Thanks!

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need help

by sri novita

yesterday, 2011

Do the use of video clips as media in teaching descriptive paragraph writing about describing person will improve student’s writing skill?

is it the way native speaker write? give suggestion about my writing. please help me

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l On 10/14/11, sri novita wrote: > Do the use of video clips as media in teaching descriptive > paragraph writing about describing person will improve > student’s writing skill? > >

"Do" should change to either "does" or "will". It has a lot of clauses which make it a bit awkward; change word order. "as media" is redundant s...See More

Oct 16, 2011

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ESL Teaching in California

by Gulhan

Oct 17, 2011

Hello, I used to work as an English teacher in my own country. We moved in US nine months ago and it is really hard to understand which steps I should follow to start over my career again here. I have teaching credential for California. What else should I study to get a teaching job or where can I go to have information about what to do ?

...See More

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wida/access

by massesl

Oct 18, 2011

My state will eventually be adpoting WIDA and ACCESS. Curious as to how people like these?

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massesl Thanks so much for your very informative post. Question - does the W-APT also tell you if someone is not ELL/if they proficient in English, and therefore do not need ELL services? Also, has your district started using the WIDA for the ESL curriculum. If so, how is that going? Do you like it?

On 12/04/11, Here is my experience wrote: > M...See MoreThanks so much for your very informative post. Question - does the W-APT also tell you if someone is not ELL/if they proficient in English, and therefore do not need ELL services? Also, has your district started using the WIDA for the ESL curriculum. If so, how is that going? Do you like it?

On 12/04/11, Here is my experience wrote: > My state just adopted the WIDA this summer so I am still very new at > it. So far all we have done is give the W-APT which determines if > the student should be tested this spring at level 1, 2 or 3. > > My thoughts so far...... > > The first year you adopt it is bad. You supposedly have to give the > W-APT test to ALL non-English speaking students. The first thing the > ESL teachers did in our district was go through each student's > records and made a list of all the students whose parent marked > anything but English on the Home Language survey. This list was > huge since approximately 50% of our district is Hispanic. > > We made the decision to eliminate all the students who had passed > the previous year's state test, since this would effectively have > exited them out of ESL anyways. Even after this step, we were still > left with an unbeliveable long list. > > According to the testing people, each student is supposed to be > given the test in a one-to-one situation. I can tell you right now > that the estimated time to test that they give you is an under- > estimation. This is especially true for your advanced students and > the ones who are no longer actively in ESL. > > We quickly realized that it was going to take weeks to do all the > testing if we stuck to the one-to-one rule. Some of our neighboring > districts did not have ESL for the first four-five weeks of school, > because all the ESL teachers were busy giving the W-APT. While this > might be possible at the elementary level where the students can > simple stay in their homerooms, for the junior high and high school > where ESL is an assigned class, this required paying for subs to > take those ESL classes. Administration was not happy with the > cost. Teachers were not happy with all the extra work of getting > sub packets ready for a month's worth of subs. Also the students > were not happy when the teachers finally returned to the classrooms > and the "study hall" they were now used to reverted back to an > actual class. > > We started testing later than our neighboring districts so we were > able to gain from their experience. The first thing we did was > eliminate the one-to-one testing whereever possible. For example, > the writing test can easily be given in a group setting. We gave > this in a large setting situation, grouped according to the 6-8 and > 9-12 requirements. > > The next thing we did was make out an answer sheet for the reading > and listening tests. We gave these in small group settings, with 3- > 4 students taking it at a time. All students took the entire test. > Then when the teacher transfered the student's answers from their > answer sheet to the testing document, they simple stopped > transferring anymore anwsers once the student had made too many > errors and the test would have been stopped in a one-to-one setting. > > The speaking test was given in a one-to-one setting and so were alot > of the K-3 tests. > > Another thing we did was make the determination that the ESL teacher > was not actually needed to give the writing, reading, and listening > tests. We trained someone to do this for us. In our case, it was a > student (ESL) teacher who was about to start her student teaching > this spring. She was highly motivated to get this on her resume and > we simple did the testing based on her class schedule. The actual > ESL teachers gave the speaking test, transferred the scores, and > scored the writing tests. Doing it this way cost the district the > same amount as paying for subs, but it kept the ESL teachers in the > classrooms. > > Once the large bulk of initial students is done, giving the W-APT > test to the occasional new arrivals is easy and doesn't take much > time. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > OK, thoughts on the whole process...... > > I am ANGRY. I am angry at how much money my school district, which > has been making major, drastic cuts for over eight years in a row > now, had to spend for this whole process. I do not even want to > know how much money we spent on materials, training, and subs. > > I am especially angry because all that work was essentially for > nothing. All that W-APT test was for was so that our test > administrator could order the actually tests for this spring. All > the W-APT test does is tell us if the student needs a level 1, 2, or > 3. I accurately predicted which level the vast majority of my > students scored. When I checked with the other ESL teachers, they > also had accurately predicted where over 90% of their active or > previous students tested. All that work and money and us ESL > teachers had the knowledge in our heads from the very begining. For > a school as cash-strapped as we are, this was simple wrong. > > We are also puzzled. You noticed in the previous paragraph I talked > about us being able to accurately predict our active ESL students > and those we exited the past year or two. It was the non-active ESL > students or those who had been out longer that often took us by > surprise. Many of them did not test well at all. Many had > surprisingly low scores. We (ESL team and administration) are now > trying to figure out do we pull some of these students back into > ESL. How do we handle the situation? How do we explain it to the > parents and students? > > This especially an issue because of HOW we gave our tests. In a > normal one-to-one setting, as soon as a student makes too many > errors at one level, the test would simple be over. You do not know > how they would do in the harder parts of the test. In our case, the > students completed the entire test. Many of these same students who > didn't score very well, was because the test was stopped after a > level in which they didn't do well. Because of how we tested we > know that they went on to do quite well on the "HARDER" parts of > that test. This is especially true of the 6-8 listening test. > > Another issue is the non-active ESL but Special Ed students. Their > scores more often than not reflect their special ed issues, not > their language issues. This will be dealt with on an individual > basis at their IEP meetings. > > To be truthful, for all that work and money we put into getting the > information, we already knew much of it ahead of time. The > information that we didn't know, is not being utilized at all. > There may be some schedule changes at the beginning of 2nd semester, > but I am guessing only a few if that. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > We have not actually given the "REAL" test yet. That will be this > spring. I know we just got an e-mail about training for it. The > thing is our ESL teachers have missed so much class time already, > there is active resistance to going to it. > > That's where we stand right now. Good luck with your adoption. >

Dec 23, 2011

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here is my exp. Since we gave the tests in the fall we have had a couple of new students come into the district. I used the W-APT test to decide whether or not to place my students. One of them scored in the intermediate level. This was obvious speaking to him before we even began. The other students score was a little more useful. His spoken language was really, ...See MoreSince we gave the tests in the fall we have had a couple of new students come into the district. I used the W-APT test to decide whether or not to place my students. One of them scored in the intermediate level. This was obvious speaking to him before we even began. The other students score was a little more useful. His spoken language was really, really bad, but listening, reading and writing were much better. In this case, I was able to use the other three scores to justify NOT placing him in ESL. (He will be living with an English speaking family.) But his very low speaking score also gave me justification for keeping him on monitored status.

These two plus all of the other students I tested in the fall will take the WIDA in the Spring. I am not looking forward to it. If it is anything like the Spring, it is going to take a long time and I am going to have a much harder time justifying why I am taking all these kids out of class.

PS I still don't have an answer for what to do with a kid whose scores are low because of attitude rather than ability. THe longer these tests take the more we will see of this. Alot of students effort level will drop off drastically after so many minutes, especially if there is nothing in it for them.

On 12/23/11, massesl wrote: > Thanks so much for your very informative post. Question - does the > W-APT also tell you if someone is not ELL/if they proficient in > English, and therefore do not need ELL services? > Also, has your district started using the WIDA for the ESL curriculum. > If so, how is that going? Do you like it? > > On 12/04/11, Here is my experience wrote: >> My state just adopted the WIDA this summer so I am still very new at >> it. So far all we have done is give the W-APT which determines if >> the student should be tested this spring at level 1, 2 or 3. >> >> My thoughts so far...... >> >> The first year you adopt it is bad. You supposedly have to give the >> W-APT test to ALL non-English speaking students. The first thing the >> ESL teachers did in our district was go through each student's >> records and made a list of all the students whose parent marked >> anything but English on the Home Language survey. This list was >> huge since approximately 50% of our district is Hispanic. >> >> We made the decision to eliminate all the students who had passed >> the previous year's state test, since this would effectively have >> exited them out of ESL anyways. Even after this step, we were still >> left with an unbeliveable long list. >> >> According to the testing people, each student is supposed to be >> given the test in a one-to-one situation. I can tell you right now >> that the estimated time to test that they give you is an under- >> estimation. This is especially true for your advanced students and >> the ones who are no longer actively in ESL. >> >> We quickly realized that it was going to take weeks to do all the >> testing if we stuck to the one-to-one rule. Some of our neighboring >> districts did not have ESL for the first four-five weeks of school, >> because all the ESL teachers were busy giving the W-APT. While this >> might be possible at the elementary level where the students can >> simple stay in their homerooms, for the junior high and high school >> where ESL is an assigned class, this required paying for subs to >> take those ESL classes. Administration was not happy with the >> cost. Teachers were not happy with all the extra work of getting >> sub packets ready for a month's worth of subs. Also the students >> were not happy when the teachers finally returned to the classrooms >> and the "study hall" they were now used to reverted back to an >> actual class. >> >> We started testing later than our neighboring districts so we were >> able to gain from their experience. The first thing we did was >> eliminate the one-to-one testing whereever possible. For example, >> the writing test can easily be given in a group setting. We gave >> this in a large setting situation, grouped according to the 6-8 and >> 9-12 requirements. >> >> The next thing we did was make out an answer sheet for the reading >> and listening tests. We gave these in small group settings, with 3- >> 4 students taking it at a time. All students took the entire test. >> Then when the teacher transfered the student's answers from their >> answer sheet to the testing document, they simple stopped >> transferring anymore anwsers once the student had made too many >> errors and the test would have been stopped in a one-to-one setting. >> >> The speaking test was given in a one-to-one setting and so were alot >> of the K-3 tests. >> >> Another thing we did was make the determination that the ESL teacher >> was not actually needed to give the writing, reading, and listening >> tests. We trained someone to do this for us. In our case, it was a >> student (ESL) teacher who was about to start her student teaching >> this spring. She was highly motivated to get this on her resume and >> we simple did the testing based on her class schedule. The actual >> ESL teachers gave the speaking test, transferred the scores, and >> scored the writing tests. Doing it this way cost the district the >> same amount as paying for subs, but it kept the ESL teachers in the >> classrooms. >> >> Once the large bulk of initial students is done, giving the W-APT >> test to the occasional new arrivals is easy and doesn't take much >> time. >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> OK, thoughts on the whole process...... >> >> I am ANGRY. I am angry at how much money my school district, which >> has been making major, drastic cuts for over eight years in a row >> now, had to spend for this whole process. I do not even want to >> know how much money we spent on materials, training, and subs. >> >> I am especially angry because all that work was essentially for >> nothing. All that W-APT test was for was so that our test >> administrator could order the actually tests for this spring. All >> the W-APT test does is tell us if the student needs a level 1, 2, or >> 3. I accurately predicted which level the vast majority of my >> students scored. When I checked with the other ESL teachers, they >> also had accurately predicted where over 90% of their active or >> previous students tested. All that work and money and us ESL >> teachers had the knowledge in our heads from the very begining. For >> a school as cash-strapped as we are, this was simple wrong. >> >> We are also puzzled. You noticed in the previous paragraph I talked >> about us being able to accurately predict our active ESL students >> and those we exited the past year or two. It was the non-active ESL >> students or those who had been out longer that often took us by >> surprise. Many of them did not test well at all. Many had >> surprisingly low scores. We (ESL team and administration) are now >> trying to figure out do we pull some of these students back into >> ESL. How do we handle the situation? How do we explain it to the >> parents and students? >> >> This especially an issue because of HOW we gave our tests. In a >> normal one-to-one setting, as soon as a student makes too many >> errors at one level, the test would simple be over. You do not know >> how they would do in the harder parts of the test. In our case, the >> students completed the entire test. Many of these same students who >> didn't score very well, was because the test was stopped after a >> level in which they didn't do well. Because of how we tested we >> know that they went on to do quite well on the "HARDER" parts of >> that test. This is especially true of the 6-8 listening test. >> >> Another issue is the non-active ESL but Special Ed students. Their >> scores more often than not reflect their special ed issues, not >> their language issues. This will be dealt with on an individual >> basis at their IEP meetings. >> >> To be truthful, for all that work and money we put into getting the >> information, we already knew much of it ahead of time. The >> information that we didn't know, is not being utilized at all. >> There may be some schedule changes at the beginning of 2nd semester, >> but I am guessing only a few if that. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> We have not actually given the "REAL" test yet. That will be this >> spring. I know we just got an e-mail about training for it. The >> thing is our ESL teachers have missed so much class time already, >> there is active resistance to going to it. >> >> That's where we stand right now. Good luck with your adoption. >>

Jan 15, 2012

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