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English as a Second Language Chatboard

wida/access

by massesl

Oct 18, 2011

My state will eventually be adpoting WIDA and ACCESS. Curious as to how people like these?

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wrighttype Sorry, I meant "so" I can get them ready, not "to". Also, I've administed the old IPT as well as LAS Links, so I'm not sure how similar WIDA/ACCESS is to either of those.

On 11/02/11, wrighttype wrote: > I'm in a new school system that has just adopted WIDA/ACCESS. I > have no idea what the test looks like, other than a few sample &g...See More

Nov 2, 2011

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massesl When is the Access given? Also, it looks like with WIDA, they tell you both the content and the language to cover (our present state ELL frameworks tells you just the language) - is this a problem if the student's grade (mainstream classroom) isn't covering that content? IE, is there a disconnect?

On 10/31/11, Very Veteran Teacher wrote: &...See More

Nov 5, 2011

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Here is my experience My state just adopted the WIDA this summer so I am still very new at it. So far all we have done is give the W-APT which determines if the student should be tested this spring at level 1, 2 or 3.

My thoughts so far......

The first year you adopt it is bad. You supposedly have to give the W-APT test to ALL non-English speaking stud...See More

Dec 4, 2011

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massesl Thanks so much for your very informative post. Question - does the W-APT also tell you if someone is not ELL/if they proficient in English, and therefore do not need ELL services? Also, has your district started using the WIDA for the ESL curriculum. If so, how is that going? Do you like it?

On 12/04/11, Here is my experience wrote: > M...See MoreThanks so much for your very informative post. Question - does the W-APT also tell you if someone is not ELL/if they proficient in English, and therefore do not need ELL services? Also, has your district started using the WIDA for the ESL curriculum. If so, how is that going? Do you like it?

On 12/04/11, Here is my experience wrote: > My state just adopted the WIDA this summer so I am still very new at > it. So far all we have done is give the W-APT which determines if > the student should be tested this spring at level 1, 2 or 3. > > My thoughts so far...... > > The first year you adopt it is bad. You supposedly have to give the > W-APT test to ALL non-English speaking students. The first thing the > ESL teachers did in our district was go through each student's > records and made a list of all the students whose parent marked > anything but English on the Home Language survey. This list was > huge since approximately 50% of our district is Hispanic. > > We made the decision to eliminate all the students who had passed > the previous year's state test, since this would effectively have > exited them out of ESL anyways. Even after this step, we were still > left with an unbeliveable long list. > > According to the testing people, each student is supposed to be > given the test in a one-to-one situation. I can tell you right now > that the estimated time to test that they give you is an under- > estimation. This is especially true for your advanced students and > the ones who are no longer actively in ESL. > > We quickly realized that it was going to take weeks to do all the > testing if we stuck to the one-to-one rule. Some of our neighboring > districts did not have ESL for the first four-five weeks of school, > because all the ESL teachers were busy giving the W-APT. While this > might be possible at the elementary level where the students can > simple stay in their homerooms, for the junior high and high school > where ESL is an assigned class, this required paying for subs to > take those ESL classes. Administration was not happy with the > cost. Teachers were not happy with all the extra work of getting > sub packets ready for a month's worth of subs. Also the students > were not happy when the teachers finally returned to the classrooms > and the "study hall" they were now used to reverted back to an > actual class. > > We started testing later than our neighboring districts so we were > able to gain from their experience. The first thing we did was > eliminate the one-to-one testing whereever possible. For example, > the writing test can easily be given in a group setting. We gave > this in a large setting situation, grouped according to the 6-8 and > 9-12 requirements. > > The next thing we did was make out an answer sheet for the reading > and listening tests. We gave these in small group settings, with 3- > 4 students taking it at a time. All students took the entire test. > Then when the teacher transfered the student's answers from their > answer sheet to the testing document, they simple stopped > transferring anymore anwsers once the student had made too many > errors and the test would have been stopped in a one-to-one setting. > > The speaking test was given in a one-to-one setting and so were alot > of the K-3 tests. > > Another thing we did was make the determination that the ESL teacher > was not actually needed to give the writing, reading, and listening > tests. We trained someone to do this for us. In our case, it was a > student (ESL) teacher who was about to start her student teaching > this spring. She was highly motivated to get this on her resume and > we simple did the testing based on her class schedule. The actual > ESL teachers gave the speaking test, transferred the scores, and > scored the writing tests. Doing it this way cost the district the > same amount as paying for subs, but it kept the ESL teachers in the > classrooms. > > Once the large bulk of initial students is done, giving the W-APT > test to the occasional new arrivals is easy and doesn't take much > time. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > OK, thoughts on the whole process...... > > I am ANGRY. I am angry at how much money my school district, which > has been making major, drastic cuts for over eight years in a row > now, had to spend for this whole process. I do not even want to > know how much money we spent on materials, training, and subs. > > I am especially angry because all that work was essentially for > nothing. All that W-APT test was for was so that our test > administrator could order the actually tests for this spring. All > the W-APT test does is tell us if the student needs a level 1, 2, or > 3. I accurately predicted which level the vast majority of my > students scored. When I checked with the other ESL teachers, they > also had accurately predicted where over 90% of their active or > previous students tested. All that work and money and us ESL > teachers had the knowledge in our heads from the very begining. For > a school as cash-strapped as we are, this was simple wrong. > > We are also puzzled. You noticed in the previous paragraph I talked > about us being able to accurately predict our active ESL students > and those we exited the past year or two. It was the non-active ESL > students or those who had been out longer that often took us by > surprise. Many of them did not test well at all. Many had > surprisingly low scores. We (ESL team and administration) are now > trying to figure out do we pull some of these students back into > ESL. How do we handle the situation? How do we explain it to the > parents and students? > > This especially an issue because of HOW we gave our tests. In a > normal one-to-one setting, as soon as a student makes too many > errors at one level, the test would simple be over. You do not know > how they would do in the harder parts of the test. In our case, the > students completed the entire test. Many of these same students who > didn't score very well, was because the test was stopped after a > level in which they didn't do well. Because of how we tested we > know that they went on to do quite well on the "HARDER" parts of > that test. This is especially true of the 6-8 listening test. > > Another issue is the non-active ESL but Special Ed students. Their > scores more often than not reflect their special ed issues, not > their language issues. This will be dealt with on an individual > basis at their IEP meetings. > > To be truthful, for all that work and money we put into getting the > information, we already knew much of it ahead of time. The > information that we didn't know, is not being utilized at all. > There may be some schedule changes at the beginning of 2nd semester, > but I am guessing only a few if that. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > We have not actually given the "REAL" test yet. That will be this > spring. I know we just got an e-mail about training for it. The > thing is our ESL teachers have missed so much class time already, > there is active resistance to going to it. > > That's where we stand right now. Good luck with your adoption. >

Dec 23, 2011

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here is my exp. Since we gave the tests in the fall we have had a couple of new students come into the district. I used the W-APT test to decide whether or not to place my students. One of them scored in the intermediate level. This was obvious speaking to him before we even began. The other students score was a little more useful. His spoken language was really, ...See MoreSince we gave the tests in the fall we have had a couple of new students come into the district. I used the W-APT test to decide whether or not to place my students. One of them scored in the intermediate level. This was obvious speaking to him before we even began. The other students score was a little more useful. His spoken language was really, really bad, but listening, reading and writing were much better. In this case, I was able to use the other three scores to justify NOT placing him in ESL. (He will be living with an English speaking family.) But his very low speaking score also gave me justification for keeping him on monitored status.

These two plus all of the other students I tested in the fall will take the WIDA in the Spring. I am not looking forward to it. If it is anything like the Spring, it is going to take a long time and I am going to have a much harder time justifying why I am taking all these kids out of class.

PS I still don't have an answer for what to do with a kid whose scores are low because of attitude rather than ability. THe longer these tests take the more we will see of this. Alot of students effort level will drop off drastically after so many minutes, especially if there is nothing in it for them.

On 12/23/11, massesl wrote: > Thanks so much for your very informative post. Question - does the > W-APT also tell you if someone is not ELL/if they proficient in > English, and therefore do not need ELL services? > Also, has your district started using the WIDA for the ESL curriculum. > If so, how is that going? Do you like it? > > On 12/04/11, Here is my experience wrote: >> My state just adopted the WIDA this summer so I am still very new at >> it. So far all we have done is give the W-APT which determines if >> the student should be tested this spring at level 1, 2 or 3. >> >> My thoughts so far...... >> >> The first year you adopt it is bad. You supposedly have to give the >> W-APT test to ALL non-English speaking students. The first thing the >> ESL teachers did in our district was go through each student's >> records and made a list of all the students whose parent marked >> anything but English on the Home Language survey. This list was >> huge since approximately 50% of our district is Hispanic. >> >> We made the decision to eliminate all the students who had passed >> the previous year's state test, since this would effectively have >> exited them out of ESL anyways. Even after this step, we were still >> left with an unbeliveable long list. >> >> According to the testing people, each student is supposed to be >> given the test in a one-to-one situation. I can tell you right now >> that the estimated time to test that they give you is an under- >> estimation. This is especially true for your advanced students and >> the ones who are no longer actively in ESL. >> >> We quickly realized that it was going to take weeks to do all the >> testing if we stuck to the one-to-one rule. Some of our neighboring >> districts did not have ESL for the first four-five weeks of school, >> because all the ESL teachers were busy giving the W-APT. While this >> might be possible at the elementary level where the students can >> simple stay in their homerooms, for the junior high and high school >> where ESL is an assigned class, this required paying for subs to >> take those ESL classes. Administration was not happy with the >> cost. Teachers were not happy with all the extra work of getting >> sub packets ready for a month's worth of subs. Also the students >> were not happy when the teachers finally returned to the classrooms >> and the "study hall" they were now used to reverted back to an >> actual class. >> >> We started testing later than our neighboring districts so we were >> able to gain from their experience. The first thing we did was >> eliminate the one-to-one testing whereever possible. For example, >> the writing test can easily be given in a group setting. We gave >> this in a large setting situation, grouped according to the 6-8 and >> 9-12 requirements. >> >> The next thing we did was make out an answer sheet for the reading >> and listening tests. We gave these in small group settings, with 3- >> 4 students taking it at a time. All students took the entire test. >> Then when the teacher transfered the student's answers from their >> answer sheet to the testing document, they simple stopped >> transferring anymore anwsers once the student had made too many >> errors and the test would have been stopped in a one-to-one setting. >> >> The speaking test was given in a one-to-one setting and so were alot >> of the K-3 tests. >> >> Another thing we did was make the determination that the ESL teacher >> was not actually needed to give the writing, reading, and listening >> tests. We trained someone to do this for us. In our case, it was a >> student (ESL) teacher who was about to start her student teaching >> this spring. She was highly motivated to get this on her resume and >> we simple did the testing based on her class schedule. The actual >> ESL teachers gave the speaking test, transferred the scores, and >> scored the writing tests. Doing it this way cost the district the >> same amount as paying for subs, but it kept the ESL teachers in the >> classrooms. >> >> Once the large bulk of initial students is done, giving the W-APT >> test to the occasional new arrivals is easy and doesn't take much >> time. >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> OK, thoughts on the whole process...... >> >> I am ANGRY. I am angry at how much money my school district, which >> has been making major, drastic cuts for over eight years in a row >> now, had to spend for this whole process. I do not even want to >> know how much money we spent on materials, training, and subs. >> >> I am especially angry because all that work was essentially for >> nothing. All that W-APT test was for was so that our test >> administrator could order the actually tests for this spring. All >> the W-APT test does is tell us if the student needs a level 1, 2, or >> 3. I accurately predicted which level the vast majority of my >> students scored. When I checked with the other ESL teachers, they >> also had accurately predicted where over 90% of their active or >> previous students tested. All that work and money and us ESL >> teachers had the knowledge in our heads from the very begining. For >> a school as cash-strapped as we are, this was simple wrong. >> >> We are also puzzled. You noticed in the previous paragraph I talked >> about us being able to accurately predict our active ESL students >> and those we exited the past year or two. It was the non-active ESL >> students or those who had been out longer that often took us by >> surprise. Many of them did not test well at all. Many had >> surprisingly low scores. We (ESL team and administration) are now >> trying to figure out do we pull some of these students back into >> ESL. How do we handle the situation? How do we explain it to the >> parents and students? >> >> This especially an issue because of HOW we gave our tests. In a >> normal one-to-one setting, as soon as a student makes too many >> errors at one level, the test would simple be over. You do not know >> how they would do in the harder parts of the test. In our case, the >> students completed the entire test. Many of these same students who >> didn't score very well, was because the test was stopped after a >> level in which they didn't do well. Because of how we tested we >> know that they went on to do quite well on the "HARDER" parts of >> that test. This is especially true of the 6-8 listening test. >> >> Another issue is the non-active ESL but Special Ed students. Their >> scores more often than not reflect their special ed issues, not >> their language issues. This will be dealt with on an individual >> basis at their IEP meetings. >> >> To be truthful, for all that work and money we put into getting the >> information, we already knew much of it ahead of time. The >> information that we didn't know, is not being utilized at all. >> There may be some schedule changes at the beginning of 2nd semester, >> but I am guessing only a few if that. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> We have not actually given the "REAL" test yet. That will be this >> spring. I know we just got an e-mail about training for it. The >> thing is our ESL teachers have missed so much class time already, >> there is active resistance to going to it. >> >> That's where we stand right now. Good luck with your adoption. >>

Jan 15, 2012

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