5th graders in Music

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Fifth Grade Teachers Chatboard

5th graders in Music

by anon from

Apr 25, 2012

My fifth grade class, which has been great for most of the year has disolved into insolence and challenges. Several openly defy and others roll their eyes and giggle and say things under their breath. Twice I have just stopped the class and had them sit in silence for the last few minutes of class. I am beginning to feel like we are on opposite teams and they enjoy making me angry. No I don't blow up, but I am sure they can tell. One even said to me last week, "It is ONLY music!" There might be just a couple of ring leaders but probably 10-12 kids who enjoy the subterfuge. I am guilty of looking forward to them "graduating" but have 6 more weeks of school and need to turn things around. Any suggestions on how to control their "senioritis" and keep them learning? I don't want the year to end like this. I have them in the morning and it ruins my whole day. I am sure it is not great for them either.

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Jamie in MO This happened to me every year when I taught music. I saved my most interesting, engaging, hands-on stuff for spring--so it was motivating to behave and be able to participate.

I also set it up so that the winter concert involved all 5th graders--they all had at least that one experience performing. There was a select chorus in March, and...See MoreThis happened to me every year when I taught music. I saved my most interesting, engaging, hands-on stuff for spring--so it was motivating to behave and be able to participate.

I also set it up so that the winter concert involved all 5th graders--they all had at least that one experience performing. There was a select chorus in March, and the spring concert was populated by any 4th or 5th grade student who chose to participate. This meant the last concert with that group was full of students who wanted to be there, as opposed to a group of students who needed to be convinced to stand correctly and so forth.

None of that helps you for this year, though, so I'd recommend you shake things up on your terms. Change the seating, and then change the order of your activities so that it's different from what you normally do. Keep it as fast-paced as possible--pull out sticks with student names on them to have them play/sing phrases or answer questions, break them into small groups to compose short songs (this could be based on any concept you want to address--dynamics, syncopated rhythms, or whatever), and instead of having them perform for the whole class, have them perform for one other group (they're only listening to one performance, not five or six this way). Do whatever you can do to reduce sitting/waiting time.

If you have to pull out a reward system, do it. You don't want to be counting the days until the end of the year. Maybe all the students who act appropriately get their name in a drawing to eat lunch with you and play whatever music they bring in (school-appropriate, of course). Maybe you can coordinate with the classroom teacher so that they earn points toward some class reward there.

If you have built a relationship with a family, you might set up a conference with the student and parent and discuss ways that a ringleader or two could be more productive in class. I won't even get started on the "It's only music" thing (grr), but I'm sure your school has a set of behavior principles like responsibility, respect, and so forth, and no student or parent can argue that disrespect is a pattern of behavior that's acceptable, even in May.

I know it's frustrating, but I'd stay focused as much as you can on the positive--go out of your way to notice good behavior, whether it's from the sometimes insolent or the reliably appropriate. At this point, it will be more effective than any punishment you could try to implement.

Good luck!

On 4/25/12, anon from wrote: > My fifth grade class, which has been great for most of the > year has disolved into insolence and challenges. Several > openly defy and others roll their eyes and giggle and say > things under their breath. Twice I have just stopped the > class and had them sit in silence for the last few minutes > of class. I am beginning to feel like we are on opposite > teams and they enjoy making me angry. No I don't blow up, > but I am sure they can tell. One even said to me last > week, "It is ONLY music!" There might be just a couple > of ring leaders but probably 10-12 kids who enjoy the > subterfuge. I am guilty of looking forward to > them "graduating" but have 6 more weeks of school and need > to turn things around. Any suggestions on how to control > their "senioritis" and keep them learning? I don't want > the year to end like this. I have them in the morning and > it ruins my whole day. I am sure it is not great for them > either. >

Apr 25, 2012

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SM On 4/25/12, anon from wrote: > My fifth grade class, which has been great for most of the > year has disolved into insolence and challenges.

It's not uncommon for students of any age to get restless and impatient as the year draws to a close. But you're saying insolent - that's not the same thing. Students who've been good can get r...See MoreOn 4/25/12, anon from wrote: > My fifth grade class, which has been great for most of the > year has disolved into insolence and challenges.

It's not uncommon for students of any age to get restless and impatient as the year draws to a close. But you're saying insolent - that's not the same thing. Students who've been good can get restless but the insolence usually means they feel they've been 'dissed' or treated poorly or unfairly.

How did you react when the first wave of not being great started? Kids can get very angry when they see a teacher they truly liked and trusted get testy with them. Kids make the mistake -because they're kids - of thinking a 'nice teacher' will always be nice no matter what happens.

They can feel betrayed but the nicest of teachers can get pretty mean when a great class becomes less than great. We depend on our great classes - they get us through the day because most years we also have our less than great classes.

In a situation like you're describing, I do a 'stop everything' at the beginning of the next class and I speak from the heart. I say - nicely - how much I have looked forward to this class every day and all year. And then I say but "I've sensed things have changed. I think you all used to look forward to this class too but now it seems to me that you don't and I'm sorry about that. Sorry because the end of year is still a ways off and sorry because I want you to have a good music class."

"What's happened here? What am I missing - how did this happen? And more important, what can we, what can I do about it? I want to try to fix this and I don't just mean you - I take seriously my role in this class. Is it the curriculum? I don't know that we have a great deal of room to alter the curriculum but perhaps we could do some things you'd like to do but - is that it? Is it the curriculum? Did I speak strongly one day and that's soured you on music?? Because music can be an incredible part of your lives. I know school treats science and math as much more important than music but music brings a lot of joy to people. I see kids listening to IPODs everywhere now and they're listening to music. Even if school treats music class as less important than other classes, when I see teenagers out on the street all wearing IPODs in seems to me that music is a very big part of their lives."

"I know you sometimes are afraid to speak but I'd like to have an open - and honest- though of course always polite discussion about this. "

Either that or I do change up the curriculum in an effort to draw them back in but that's another approach and another story all together. I have let kids bring in their own music and we play it. I've played parts of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring telling them it was intended to portray someone literally dancing to death. Then I might play Flight of the Bumblebee and not tell them what it was intended to portray and have them guess. The Overture of 1812 is another that I will ask them to tell me what it suggests to them. Mine seem to like that.

Good luck. > openly defy and others roll their eyes and giggle and say > things under their breath. Twice I have just stopped the > class and had them sit in silence for the last few minutes > of class. I am beginning to feel like we are on opposite > teams and they enjoy making me angry. No I don't blow up, > but I am sure they can tell. One even said to me last > week, "It is ONLY music!" There might be just a couple > of ring leaders but probably 10-12 kids who enjoy the > subterfuge. I am guilty of looking forward to > them "graduating" but have 6 more weeks of school and need > to turn things around. Any suggestions on how to control > their "senioritis" and keep them learning? I don't want > the year to end like this. I have them in the morning and > it ruins my whole day. I am sure it is not great for them > either. >

Apr 26, 2012

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